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Is the UK really overcrowded?


swiss_democracy_for_all

Is the UK really overcrowded?  

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swiss_democracy_for_all
7 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Pretty sure it was a reference to this kind of thing (Bradford)

image_update_46d422858e54b80c_1348843364

 

Well, with a decent electoral system, this would be a less common scene fro sure.

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The Generation Game

I wondered why I couldn't find the old Tesco story about staple food sales suggesting about 80m people in the UK.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/how-one-old-news-story-convinced-conspiracy-theorists-tesco

 

This suggests that the supermarket wasn't named but I'm 95% sure I remember Tesco being the source.

Edit: I feel like I'm in Eurasia.

Edited by The Generation Game
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swiss_democracy_for_all
On 5/24/2017 at 21:49, The Generation Game said:

I wondered why I couldn't find the old Tesco story about staple food sales suggesting about 80m people in the UK.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/how-one-old-news-story-convinced-conspiracy-theorists-tesco

 

This suggests that the supermarket wasn't named but I'm 95% sure I remember Tesco being the source.

Edit: I feel like I'm in Eurasia.

No idea of the truth of that but judging by the shape of brits now when I visit, they're eating twice as much as the Swiss and quite a bit more than the French! So maybe 65-70 million are eating food for 85 million......

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  • 2 weeks later...
One percent
4 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

The UK is not over-crowded.

Travel any reasonable distance by train and you will see that this is true. Miles and miles of green bits between a few towns and cities.

750,000 empty houses in England and Wales alone.

It really is time for you all to stop believing this bull-shit once and for-all...

 

XYY

 

 

 

I take it that you've not been to London recently. 

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One percent
Just now, The XYY Man said:

Drove my step-daughter to Heathrow last year.

Noticed mile upon mile of empty green bits between the towns on both sides of the motorway...

 

XYY

 

 

Well yes, there are green bits. See photo below of near where I live, but try going into hackney, shordich or any other bit of the east end and every bit of grass is being built on 

IMG_0611.JPG

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One percent
9 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

How's that compare to other countries tho....

Who cares?  We are talking about our land and how we want to live. Surely we should have a say in how we organise and how many new people we let in. 

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swiss_democracy_for_all
7 hours ago, One percent said:

Who cares?  We are talking about our land and how we want to live. Surely we should have a say in how we organise and how many new people we let in. 

Yes, of course the people of the U.K. should have a say on immigration. Dream on of getting that with May or Corbyn, one will ignore you, the other will lie.

However to return the "feel" of the population density to the more comfortable levels of the previous century, even if immigration is cut (ha!) then a massive building programme of housing and infrastructure for the many millions already in the U.K. is required. This would also allow housing costs to fall and your offspring to leave home (hence why the rentier elite won't do it). 

Nimby greenbelters who can't do the maths partially illustrated by XYY up thread are contributing massively to the problem by presenting an additional political barrier for any politician wishing to improve things. Unless the delusion extends to thinking people are really going to be escorted to the borders, it's time to wake up. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
One percent
8 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

I guess, but do you really want the UK to be a much bigger version of the HK? Don't the people who live in the UK get a say in it? Etc?

Clearly not and if you dare question it, you are wracist. 

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InLikeFlynn

The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world (see map below from Wikipedia). If you look at England (rather than the UK as a whole) the situation is even worse. 

 

 

 

864px-Population_density_countries_2017_

 

 

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Chewing Grass
5 minutes ago, InLikeFlynn said:

The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world (see map below from Wikipedia). If you look at England (rather than the UK as a whole) the situation is even worse. 

 

 

 

864px-Population_density_countries_2017_

 

 

Just try getting away from people, it's nearly fucking impossible. The tighter you pack human beings together the more trouble you have, look at London or any big city for fucks sake. How many people have actually experienced proper silence, I have done it once in my life in Scotland, it was actually that quiet it felt like it was pressing on your ears. Everywhere else there is always some noise in the background 24/7.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
10 hours ago, InLikeFlynn said:

The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in the world (see map below from Wikipedia). If you look at England (rather than the UK as a whole) the situation is even worse. 

 

 

 

864px-Population_density_countries_2017_

 

 

I return to a point made earlier in the thread. Switzerland is much more densely populated than the U.K. when you consider useable land(much of CH is mountains). But it feels less densely populated than the U.K. , even when you're in the useable land part, and in the mountains if you avoid the most popular spots it feels empty. It's the infrastructure that is the main problem in the U.K.

Not saying that makes mass immigration ok, it doesn't. If U.K. residents want the U.K. to feel nicer in terms of density, then two things need to happen, reduced immigration AND a massive housing and infrastructure building programme. Even If the borders were shut, it wouldn't start feeling better by magic. 

Infrastructure is where QE should have gone IMO. 

 

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On 4/27/2017 at 15:33, swissy_fit said:

Agreed, there are too many people for the infrastructure. But they won't send them home, whatever anyone might want, that is not going to happen. So what's the solution?

Stop the fuckers from getting here in the first place. That's what Brexit was all about - the ability to control our own borders. 

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swiss_democracy_for_all
15 hours ago, Tabasco Kid said:

Stop the fuckers from getting here in the first place. That's what Brexit was all about - the ability to control our own borders. 

Maybe, just maybe, if May had won her big majority. As it is, no chance. The weak government will dance to the Remainer's tune(which is most MPs despite their parties official policies since the Brexit vote) and it will be EEA or something close to that, with the vast majority of free movement retained. 

UKIP and Farage to make a stunning return to politics in 2018/2019 as it all pans out.

Edited by swissy_fit
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Do you actually think you're fooling anyone with your duplicitous ramblings?

It's fairly fucking obvious your a remainer, so why don't you just admit you benefit from the clusterfuck that is Europe, and stop trying to be clever?

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19 minutes ago, DTMark said:

Living in the South East, you cannot actually guarantee that you will complete a journey let alone give any reasonable time estimate of when you will arrive somewhere. One broken down car on the M25 causes miles of tailbacks and hours of delays which gridlock onto adjoining roads.

We once lived in a housing estate which you could not actually leave by car if the nearby dual carriageway was stuffed, You'd look out of the window and see a car at the end of your cul-de-sac queueing all the way through the housing estate,. You'd make another coffee. Half an hour later the identical car is queueing in the identical location. Won't be going to work today then. It would take until lunchtime before that car moved.

But population isn't something that we're allowed to debate.

Clearly if you have more people - more "work units" - then employers have greater choice and power (zero hours contracts) and the GDP can be swelled even if only a small percentage of the additional population actually contributes.

China has a huge workforce. If we could cram that size of workforce into this country then we'd be quite prosperous. On paper. And in theory.

Because of the way that the monetary system works, there is basically no way back. The population must increase endlessly to create growth. We might well be taking that growth from Poland, but the EU doesn't give a toss about that. It's all for the Greater Good. It doesn't care who the money for the projects comes from to enlarge and ingratiate itself. Only when the money is jeopardised. Brexit, and where we are with the "negotiations",

We now see employers and business groups asking the government to put the economy first in the Brexit negotiations. That means continuing with unlimited immigration,

And we have all those pensions to pay.

There can't be any debate on this. Pensions were supposed to be guaranteed, especially State pensions. The government of the day even produced leaflets including the line "your benefits are guaranteed" to get people to pay in. They knew back in the 1970s that the pensions would be unpayable but Thatcher prevented IIRC Norman Fowler from explaining this.

So the government can't now say "Those pensions we guaranteed.. actually, they weren't and we lied". Nor can it have pensioners starving and freezing to death in a so-called civilised Western country,

They just try again with "Workplace Pensions". "Pay in and your boss pays in". Excuse me. Why should I pay for your bloody pension when I'm raped by the government for cash just like everyone else?

Sorry, no debate allowed. It's all for The Greater Good, The GDP number is king. People might have long-believed that increases in that number - growth - would be A Good Thing For Them in that some of it might be shared around,. Actually, no. It's perfectly possible for the GDP to rise, even only fractionally, while living standards fall (for instance, inflation in the cost of necessities masked from the inflation index by virtue of low weighting). This is where we are. And where we must inevitably remain or the banking system collapses.

Ironically as far as I can see the banking system did largely collapse and it will do so again in contracting waves (house prices falling now + Brexit = next wave coming). Then there will be change.

Wise words, DTMark, Personally I'm counting on being dead by 2027. If I'm still alive by then, I'm fucked.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
On 6/20/2017 at 01:11, Tabasco Kid said:

Wise words, DTMark, Personally I'm counting on being dead by 2027. If I'm still alive by then, I'm fucked.

Money runs out? I knew a bloke who said his Dad had budgeted to live to 75, and had to be bailed by his (fortunately) kind children as he was still going strong at 82!

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On 6/21/2017 at 10:23, swissy_fit said:

Money runs out? I knew a bloke who said his Dad had budgeted to live to 75, and had to be bailed by his (fortunately) kind children as he was still going strong at 82!

Money runs out? I think you are under the impression that I have money NOW! I'm fucking skint pal. Money runs out?  Haha! What bleedin' money?

Rest assured Swissy...I'll be dead by 2027. 

Edited by Tabasco Kid
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swiss_democracy_for_all
11 hours ago, Tabasco Kid said:

Money runs out? I think you are under the impression that I have money NOW! I'm fucking skint pal. Money runs out?  Haha! What bleedin' money?

Rest assured Swissy...I'll be dead by 2027. 

:( OK I won't enquire further.

Make the most of the 10 years if you can... 

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On 6/4/2017 at 17:01, The XYY Man said:

The UK is not over-crowded.

Travel any reasonable distance by train and you will see that this is true. Miles and miles of green bits between a few towns and cities.

750,000 empty houses in England and Wales alone.

It really is time for you all to stop believing this bull-shit once and for-all...

 

XYY

 

 

 

oh do fuck off you silly bastard.

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One percent
3 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Shit-holes like London may be overcrowded - but the UK as a whole is not.

589,766 empty homes in England (October 2016). Check out Excel table 615 at the following link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live-tables-on-dwelling-stock-including-vacants

Even the B.B.C. admit it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34930602

I'm the silly bastard that knows there ain't no housing shortage, and there is acre upon acre and miles and miles of green land that nobody lives on.

And that the "pent-up demand" for housing we keep hearing about simply does not exist. You are seriously deluded if you think otherwise.

640px-Map_of_population_density_in_Engla

 

XYY

In part I agree with you xyy.  However, where are these empty homes?  I guess that there are many in shitty places no one wants to live.  There are then those in our large cities such as London and Cambridge where new flats have been built and sold off plan to foreign investors who then leave them stood empty. 

It will be interesting to see where all the Camden residents are housed as apparently there are huge swathes of investor empty property in Camden. 

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One percent
1 minute ago, The XYY Man said:

I agree with you about the locations

There are at least five empty in my street - and no fucker wants to live here..!

And that is part of the problem.

People have gotten too aspirational via the housing bubble of the early part of this century and all the TV property porn that came with it.

Everyone WANTS a four bedroomed house on a posh estate, away from "the plebs"

The fact that they too are "plebs" is the delicious irony.

If people set their sights a little lower, they might get a pleasant surprise.

The question asked on this thread is not being answered correctly by most posters.

Everyone is actually answering the question "Does the UK have the infrastructure to support its current population?" and not "is the UK overcrowded?"

The correct answers are "No" and "No"...

 

XYY

I would rather poke my eyes out with a blunt stick than live in a new build on an estate. 

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One percent
13 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

New builds are the biggest rip-off in the history of British housing ever.

But that's what folk are taught to aspire to.

Me...? I'm happy as a pig in shit in a two-bedroomed terrace.

And once the car is paid for next August, I aim to buy one.

For less than thirty grand.

Something like this...

http://www.kimmittandroberts.com/property-for-sale/peterlee-horden/sr8-4jh/1770248

 

XYY

Or, what about these? Further down the coast but right on the beach

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=USERDEFINEDAREA^{"polylines"%3A"_rblIvpiDllB|x%40wTxqBcu%40rgEmqB{w%40rVscAfx%40{vF"}&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&includeSSTC=true&_includeSSTC=on&viewType=LIST

 

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