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M S E Refugee

E.U trying to Extort the U.K for 100 Billion Euro's

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I have three ideas how to deal with the cost of leaving the E.U.

(1) Write them a giant cheque for £1 and tell them to Fuck off.

(2) Invade Belgium and put these E.U criminals on trial for extortion.(I am sure it wouldn't cost more than 100 Billion Euro's to invade Belgium)

(3) Send Diane Abbottopotamus to Brussels to negotiate as she seems to be unfamiliar with large numbers so this would keep the costs down.

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They seem obsessed with billing us for ongoing revenue costs, while presupposing that they get to keep 100% of all the assets built with our funding.

Our opening position should be that all roads built with EU funds should become toll roads until the cost of building them is recovered, with us reimbursed annually with our share of the income. All other assets built with our money should be treated similarly.

If they don't like it sieze all the assets of all EU member states and their citizens held in the UK.

Edited by SpectrumFX

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It's going to be interesting. If May and co don't draw up plan B, we're f*cked as time is on the EU's side, they can drag this out as long as they want. The only way we can get a decent deal is by drawing up a nasty plan B that will hurt everyone and making it plain that if our hand is forced we prefer that to being bent over. It seems to me that either way, in the short term the UK is going to get a lot poorer. 

 

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On news they said France and Poland are going hard line.

Easy to deal with Poland. Stop all CB to polish children in poland.
Then stop all benefits in the UK to anyone not British.

If we didn't pay, what would they do? Throw us out?

 

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I'm glad David Davis / Theresa May are handling this.

Cameron / Osborne / Boris would jump up and down, make a lot of noise, and then just give them what they asked for.

 

I don't mind giving them some cash to ease the pain that the few remaining net funders are heading into but they can forget £100bn, the figure the EU punted a few weeks ago was about £60bn which equated to about two years' net contributions by us.  If it dropped to £30bn or effectively paying a one year notice period after leaving then I'd be fine with that.

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It will be interesting to see just how difficult a woman May can be. The EU seems to be plucking figures out of its backside - or is it the estimate of Junckers bar bill for the next 2 years? Whatever, just proves what a shower of shite the EU is. 

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Great line from Yanis Varoufakis

Quote

'My Brexit advice to Theresa May is to avoid negotiating at all costs'

Essentially, the Greek experience was for the EU to use delaying tactics until it was too late.  You can't try to negotiate because they don't negotiate. This was disastrous for Greece as they came from a position of relative weakness, but the UK isn't in such a weak position.

 The only way is to go to the table with a demand (YV says a Norway style agreement) and stick with it.  They'll probably destroy everything, but negotiation will only result in more destruction.

http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Business_1/Yanis-Varoufakis-My-Brexit-advice-to-Theresa-May-is-to-avoid-negotiating-at-all-costs.shtml

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Uk, as net contributors, wants to leave and are told we have to pay over a massive sum.

If Poland, as net recipients, wanted to leave, would the EU give them a massive golden goodbye?

The position is ludicrous.

 

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The numbers that the UK apparently "owes" the EU simply demonstrate that it's a self-serving political structure like any other. A State, in fact.

Come up with the vision and get buy-in from those who have money. Then dish that money out to others to get them on board, too. It all works nicely as long as there's enough money coming in to enable the power base to grow.

The sight of unelected bureaucrats in dismay after having done the maths and come to the realisation that the loss of a huge net contributor may put their ability to continue the above project in jeopardy is a truly beautiful thing to see.

In this respect I think the UK's hand might be just a little stronger than is believed. "Money talks". Depending on how much they need the money - I thought they wanted to set up an army, that will cost - they might well end up having to accept some lump sum payment in exchange for certain guarantees they would rather not make but will have to balance that upfront cash against the political ramifications that may follow from that.

And, separately, if the EU really is as the vision presented is meant to suggest - people working together to achieve goals where interests align, and principally a democratic trading arrangement for the common good - I'd like to know which of our treasonous prime ministers signed something that committed or obligated us to pay billions of pounds in the first place. Why would we do that? Why would anyone do that?

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10 minutes ago, dgul said:

Great line from Yanis Varoufakis

Essentially, the Greek experience was for the EU to use delaying tactics until it was too late.  You can't try to negotiate because they don't negotiate. This was disastrous for Greece as they came from a position of relative weakness, but the UK isn't in such a weak position.

 The only way is to go to the table with a demand (YV says a Norway style agreement) and stick with it.  They'll probably destroy everything, but negotiation will only result in more destruction.

http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Business_1/Yanis-Varoufakis-My-Brexit-advice-to-Theresa-May-is-to-avoid-negotiating-at-all-costs.shtml

I reckon that's about right. Don't waste your time trying to negotiate with people who don't want a solution, stick to threats, extortion, bribes, spying, deals via other parties, use of influence with important others, all underhand tactics possible. It's why we need Blair to be doing it, the right wanker for the right job. May needs to bribe him to do it, a few millions should suffice plus the many tens of millions he could make on the side in such a role - sticks in the throat to give him anything but it's peanuts beside what it might cost without him.

 

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19 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

I reckon that's about right. Don't waste your time trying to negotiate with people who don't want a solution, stick to threats, extortion, bribes, spying, deals via other parties, use of influence with important others, all underhand tactics possible. It's why we need Blair to be doing it, the right wanker for the right job. May needs to bribe him to do it, a few millions should suffice plus the many tens of millions he could make on the side in such a role - sticks in the throat to give him anything but it's peanuts beside what it might cost without him.

 

I'm not sure I would trust Bliar anywhere near this.  He is not trustworthy and would sell his grandmother at the drop of a hat.  He has already sold his soul.  We need strong negotiators who will put the best interests of the uk at the centre.

we are a sovereign country.  I'm not sure what the negotiations are about.  We pass a set of laws reinstating the sovereignty of our country.  We stop the direct debit at the same time and then deal with the fallout and start the negotiations again.

as someone upthread says, what exactly will they do if we just stopped paying and walked away!

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We are leaving so we can't keep any of the benefits. But to leave we have to pay a fortune for benefits we will never see ?

No. Simple as that. 

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If the EU play hard (dirty) enough they'll have a public spending revolt on their hands too, considering how many EU goods are sold in this country could turn really messy for them. At the same time much freer access to cheaper goods from across the world would be a real double whammy. How far are they willing to push to destroy treasure island for their own manufacturers?

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3 minutes ago, One percent said:

I'm not sure I would trust Bliar anywhere near this.  He is not trustworthy and would sell his grandmother at the drop of a hat.  He has already sold his soul.  We need strong negotiators who will put the best interests of the uk at the centre.

we are a sovereign country.  I'm not sure what the negotiations are about.  We pass a set of laws reinstating the sovereignty of our country.  We stop the direct debit at the same time and then deal with the fallout and start the negotiations again.

as someone upthread says, what exactly will they do if we just stopped paying and walked away!

Don't trust him either but no-one else has the full skillset and is enough of a wanker to do it the way it's going to need to be done.

It is definitely not going to work just being pleasant firm and honest. 

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53 minutes ago, dgul said:

Great line from Yanis Varoufakis

Essentially, the Greek experience was for the EU to use delaying tactics until it was too late.  You can't try to negotiate because they don't negotiate. This was disastrous for Greece as they came from a position of relative weakness, but the UK isn't in such a weak position.

 The only way is to go to the table with a demand (YV says a Norway style agreement) and stick with it.  They'll probably destroy everything, but negotiation will only result in more destruction.

http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Business_1/Yanis-Varoufakis-My-Brexit-advice-to-Theresa-May-is-to-avoid-negotiating-at-all-costs.shtml

I read a similar article in the Telegraph the other day.

It does seem that the European negotiating strategy in our case is very similar but based around the premise that Britain wants a trade deal at all costs..  so that is the only thing they won't offer us until certain opening demands are met.  The problem is as Greece realised,  as those demands are met the list just keeps getting longer until the EU have everything.

You can't blame them for taking that approach if their goal is to screw us over rather than actually sit down and negotiate a fair deal.  But if that is their plan then we need to acknowledge that a quick trade deal is never going to be on the cards and plan accordingly.  

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2 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I read a similar article in the Telegraph the other day.

It does seem that the European negotiating strategy in our case is very similar but based around the premise that Britain wants a trade deal at all costs..  so that is the only thing they won't offer us until certain opening demands are met.  The problem is as Greece realised,  as those demands are met the list just keeps getting longer until the EU have everything.

You can't blame them for taking that approach if their goal is to screw us over rather than actually sit down and negotiate a fair deal.  But if that is their plan then we need to acknowledge that a quick trade deal is never going to be on the cards and plan accordingly.  

There's no if, that will be their goal. What's fair does not even come into it. I knew someone years back who did this kind of negotiation for a living, he's probably going to be involved on our side. He was pretty cagey about his job but made clear that the EU is a snakepit. I really, really hope that no-one in the UK setup thinks otherwise.

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15 minutes ago, NTB said:

Dear Donald

We have a bit of a pest problem. How many cruise missiles can we get for £100 billion?

Love
Theresa xx

Secret services could be supporting and directing "radical elements" in Molenbeek as we speak. That's how "we" deal with uncooperative governments these days, isn't it?

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Does anyone know how the figure of £100bn breaks down - what it's for?

I'm assuming we're not supposed to know, because the knowledge of how that money was going to be spent overseas - indeed that we were going to pay it and it was going to be spent at all - wouldn't go down terribly well with our electorate.

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1 minute ago, DTMark said:

Does anyone know how the figure of £100bn breaks down - what it's for?

I think they've asked Diane Abbot to look into the financial breakdown.

Should have an answer shortly.

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The obvious way to do this is to play on the internal divisions of the EU. Offer good deals to EU sceptic countries such as Poland, the other Visegrad 4 and possibly France depending on the election. Offer extremely bad terms to Germany and then encourage them to fight among themselves. Sir Humphrey Appleby explained this all 35 years ago.

 

Edited by Stunley Andwin

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I think I recall hearing that when the EU presented its initial negotiation document, signed by all the EU states - one of the things in it was that no EU state would negotiate independently with Britain.

They've thought of this already. The small States are going have to weigh up the income from the EU, as net recipients, versus what the UK may offer.

There are other ways to spend that £100bn.

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6 minutes ago, DTMark said:

Does anyone know how the figure of £100bn breaks down - what it's for?

I'm assuming we're not supposed to know, because the knowledge of how that money was going to be spent overseas - indeed that we were going to pay it and it was going to be spent at all - wouldn't go down terribly well with our electorate.

It's not entirely plucked from the ether.

It is a payment to support big spending commitments that have been made whilst the UK has been a member of the EU and has therefore had a say within these projects including whether they happened or not.  So there is some justification for a payment to be made.  That £100bn is clearly far too high though.

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Just now, Frank Hovis said:

It's not entirely plucked from the ether.

It is a payment to support big spending commitments that have been made whilst the UK has been a member of the EU and has therefore had a say within these projects including whether they happened or not.  So there is some justification for a payment to be made.  That £100bn is clearly far too high though.

OK. But, what projects? Where? For whose benefit?

Why on earth would any of our politicians agree to hand the EU £100bn if it was to be spent entirely in and on other EU States?

Since we're the #2 net contributor it is hardly surprising that most of the other States would vote for such projects since they only have to foot a small percentage of the bill.

But why did we agree? Who agreed it?

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2 minutes ago, DTMark said:

OK. But, what projects? Where? For whose benefit?

Why on earth would any of our politicians agree to hand the EU £100bn if it was to be spent entirely in and on other EU States?

Since we're the #2 net contributor it is hardly surprising that most of the other States would vote for such projects since they only have to foot a small percentage of the bill.

But why did we agree? Who agreed it?

And also this was presumably agreed future pending prior to the referendum. We have now signaled that we are no longer part of the club and so these things need to be reconsidered in light of the fact that one of the largest contributors is leaving.  

We need to leave, stop paying and start our negotiations from that position. We are a net importer. I'm sure that German manufacturers would not allow the Eu to stop playing with us. 

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