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One percent

It really is the world’s welfare state

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2 hours ago, One percent said:

Their abusive father was jailed for six months possessing a fake passport and has spent the past eight months in a detention centre awaiting deportation.

I know flights can get booked up quite early but eight months - would be cheaper to charter a jet than keep him here.

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3 minutes ago, the gardener said:

Oh for fuck's sake.

Is there no fucking end to this madness?

I'm beginning to think that DOSBODS is bad for my mental well-being

Went out with a friend yesterday who like me has no TV but unlike me has no DOSBODS account. She was happily unaware of everything I grumbeld about xD

Edited by Hopeful

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23 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

I'm beginning to think that DOSBODS is bad for my mental well-being

Went out with a friend yesterday who like me has no TV but unlike me has no DOSBODS account. She was happily unaware of everything I grumbeld about xD

Forewarned is forearmed. 

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30 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

I'm beginning to think that DOSBODS is bad for my mental well-being

Went out with a friend yesterday who like me has no TV but unlike me has no DOSBODS account. She was happily unaware of everything I grumbeld about xD

A trouble shared is two people worried.

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3 hours ago, dgul said:

So many problems would be resolved by having a proper contributions based welfare system.

Thought a lot about how to solve most our woes and this one change would do the most I reckon.

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

So many problems would be resolved by having a proper contributions based welfare system.

 I agree, however at the same time I'm not sure that society could watch children starve. Before the welfare state society needed a fairly vicious justice system to keep the underclass in check. I'm not sure I'd be happy with people getting hanged for stealing a loaf of bread...

I think it would be better if you couldn't have children if you were in receipt of benefits...

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Just now, Great Guy said:

 I agree, however at the same time I'm not sure that society could watch children starve. Before the welfare state society needed a fairly vicious justice system to keep the underclass in check. I'm not sure I'd be happy with people getting hanged for stealing a loaf of bread...

I think it would be better if you couldn't have children if you were in receipt of benefits...

Agree but the problem is a bit chicken and egg. The state  gives money to parents so the kids don’t starve. Then, it becomes a career choice. 

How we wind that back is anyone’s guess. 

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

So many problems would be resolved by having a proper contributions based welfare system.

You are right and there is NOTHING (even as part of the EU) that stops us re-introducing one. Yes we used to have one but it was changed to be 'needs' based rather than 'contribution based'. so now any EU citizen can come here and if they (say) they have nothing we give them benefits, while a UK worker who has worked and saved, say £50k gets nothing until savings are spent and only £16k is left .... successive governments have shown they care far more for immigration and themselves than the UK citizens who work, pay tax and save.

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12 minutes ago, satch said:

You are right and there is NOTHING (even as part of the EU) that stops us re-introducing one. Yes we used to have one but it was changed to be 'needs' based rather than 'contribution based'. so now any EU citizen can come here and if they (say) they have nothing we give them benefits, while a UK worker who has worked and saved, say £50k gets nothing until savings are spent and only £16k is left .... successive governments have shown they care far more for immigration and themselves than the UK citizens who work, pay tax and save.

There is a collective term for all the people you described (except for the saver)

cunts

Edited by Hopeful

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25 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

 I agree, however at the same time I'm not sure that society could watch children starve.


Apparently with this generous benefits system children are still starving.

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15 hours ago, Great Guy said:

 I agree, however at the same time I'm not sure that society could watch children starve. Before the welfare state society needed a fairly vicious justice system to keep the underclass in check. I'm not sure I'd be happy with people getting hanged for stealing a loaf of bread...

I think it would be better if you couldn't have children if you were in receipt of benefits...

Food stamps. In fact I think we should use food stamps with our current system. Would help prevent pro mums thinking having kids is a good lifestyle choice.

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2 hours ago, gibbon said:

Food stamps. In fact I think we should use food stamps with our current system. Would help prevent pro mums thinking having kids is a good lifestyle choice.

Which would be so easy to do. Debit card companies are already able to put restrictions on card use - e.g. An under 18s card cannot be used to buy alcohol or gamble.

So you just decide what are essentials, (I would exclude ready meals as well as fags and alcohol) add on say £20 a week cash for incidentals and fund the card with whatever is deemed suitable.

This could be tweaked quite nicely. Say you are on bennies because you are too fat to work?  - Card only buys low cal food. You want the pizza - get a job.

A bit too much big brother for some? - tough - earn your own money.

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19 hours ago, Great Guy said:

 I agree, however at the same time I'm not sure that society could watch children starve. Before the welfare state society needed a fairly vicious justice system to keep the underclass in check. I'm not sure I'd be happy with people getting hanged for stealing a loaf of bread...

I think it would be better if you couldn't have children if you were in receipt of benefits...

Very few people actually starved before the introduction of the Welfare State. There was a system of state aid (Parish Poor Relief) in place from the sixteenth century, which was introduced to replace the charitable work of the monasteries closed down by Henry VIII.

IMO the problems started with the idea of universal benefits, which was a key tenet of the postwar welfare state. This was the idea that welfare was for everyone regardless of whether they needed it or not (ie, not means tested). Partly this was done because it was cheaper to give everyone the benefits instead of means testing them, but also it was done to remove the 'stigma' of benefits.  This accustomed successive generations to the idea that benefits are something to which they are entitled -  a hammock instead of a safety net.

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2 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

Very few people actually starved before the introduction of the Welfare State. There was a system of state aid (Parish Poor Relief) in place from the sixteenth century, which was introduced to replace the charitable work of the monasteries closed down by Henry VIII.

IMO the problems started with the idea of universal benefits, which was a key tenet of the postwar welfare state. This was the idea that welfare was for everyone regardless of whether they needed it or not (ie, not means tested). Partly this was done because it was cheaper to give everyone the benefits instead of means testing them, but also it was done to remove the 'stigma' of benefits.  This accustomed successive generations to the idea that benefits are something to which they are entitled -  a hammock instead of a safety net.

Partly but the welfare state was meant to be paid for through national insurance or the ‘stamp’. You paid in, in good times and took out in poor. It’s that link which appears to have been lost so that NI is seen as just another tax. 

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Partly but the welfare state was meant to be paid for through national insurance or the ‘stamp’. You paid in, in good times and took out in poor. It’s that link which appears to have been lost so that NI is seen as just another tax. 

I think that was largely a fiction though, introduced to make the older generation feel they were part of a Friendly Society or Christmas Club rather than accepting state charity. As early as 1951 prescription charges had to be brought in because the system couldn't pay for itself. But I take your point that losing the idea of contribution was a big mistake. I think this happened in Woy Jenkins' welfare reforms of 1968 but I'm not quite sure of the details. 

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