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Frank Hovis

Tax avoidance - a moral duty?

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I'm  a director of a limited company now Frank. I just do the same stuff I ever did. There's too many people paid to distribute a small amount of wealth. There isn't much is there.

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10 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I'm  a director of a limited company now Frank. I just do the same stuff I ever did. There's too many people paid to distribute a small amount of wealth. There isn't much is there.

So doing your bit.

I remember an accountant back in the 80s who woudl only work up to the personal allowance because he was opposed to paying tax to buy nuclear weapons.

I am similarly opposed to non-contributory benefits.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

So doing your bit.

I remember an accountant back in the 80s who woudl only work up to the personal allowance because he was opposed to paying tax to buy nuclear weapons.

I am similarly opposed to non-contributory benefits.

I would do the same, if only I could find a way to make the rent and school fees tax deductible.

But since i can't, it becomes a bit of a vicious spiral.

(Actually I have managed it to a large degree, just not quite 100% there yet)

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I'm OK with the government spending money to get the mono-legged a false leg to walk on. I'm not happy with a lot of the spending. I don't want the neighbour's aresehole kid getting free drugs when I had to pay for that shit!

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Here is the graph of UK central government spending from wiki:

4723638881158cf4edb7dc157e00dd55afa42c38

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Whoever drew that graph clearly, either has no interest in making the sector label legends match the sector labels on the graph, or perhaps, any interest in their work

Edited by Hopeful

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I am doing / did my bit. In 1994 upon seeing a monthly payslip with a £4000 tax deduction, I requested to be be posted overseas and, having signed my forms, gave never been subject to U.K. taxes since.

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Posted (edited)

Everyone should pay some tax, but the 40% bracket kicks in far too early IMHO (and I speak as someone who doesn't earn enough to pay 40% tax!).

John Lovitz's point is quite well put, he's being insulted by Obama as not paying enough...despite paying 50% of his wages in tax. I can't find the clip I saw a while back but Lovitz basically says "I'm paying half my money; isn't that enough!?":

 

Edited by JoeDavola

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Posted (edited)
On 15/04/2018 at 12:59, Frank Hovis said:

Here is the graph of UK central government spending from wiki:

4723638881158cf4edb7dc157e00dd55afa42c38

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending_in_the_United_Kingdom

Just look at that top line.  Most people would guess the NHS and education as big spenders but they are dwarfed by that "Social Protection" line which is off the scale.

It includes pensions but at £7k a year for those over c. 70 I think we can assume that they aren't a big part of it.

This money is funding a vast number of people not to work or to work the 16 hrs that gives them tax credits and this is why immigrants from t ethird world pour through Europe to get to Britain and that "social protection" honeypot.

And how is it being funded?  Well from the budget report 2016/17 (big pdf - don't open it on your phone) pages 5 & 6 it is:

Cost of Social Protection: £240bn

Tax sources in descending order:

Income tax £182bn

VAT £138bn

NI £126bn

The next biggest single category is Excise duties at £48bn.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/508193/HMT_Budget_2016_Web_Accessible.pdf

 

So every penny of income tax and nearly half of VAT is going on this "Social Protection" which serves neither to defend this country nor heal or educate its citizens.

 

This is ridiculous and the only way that it will change is if the tax income is reduced by everybody minimising the amount of tax they pay.

We have had threads on this before but the simple answers are work less and buy less; buying second hand where possible.

 

It's the only way to stop this ridiculous level of spending on benefits by government after government; Conservative and Labour.

 

Not sure where they get their figures from but the Autumn 2017 Budget states that £102 billion will be spent on Education and £155 billion on the NHS over the coming year

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/autumn-budget-2017-documents/autumn-budget-2017

The cost of Social Protection is estimated at £252 billion. 

It should be noted that the Treasury actually likes benefit claimants who fritter away their money on booze, takeaway pizza and fags just so long as they buy it from legitimate outlets since these people basically hand much of their money straight back to the state in VAT and Excise duties.

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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IR35 has stuffed me over.....There's no point in working as a contractor anymore.

I'm going to set up a small business manufacturing stuff instead.

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I don't know why more people don't just  phoenix their companies. I know someone who has been doing it for years and years and never gets caught. He just takes on loads of company debt, strikes it off and starts up another one, rinse and repeat, never pays a penny in corp tax. HMRC just don't have the manpower to investigate. 

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On 15/04/2018 at 13:02, One percent said:

Don’t they just print the shortfall?  

Now now, they have only printed (i know THEY DON:T PRINT IT) ... magiced up £375bn over the last few years and IIRC Carney magiced up another £75bn due to brexit. More worrying, well it would worry me is the £40bn debt interest .... still the rich are unaffected and we still have the 'emergency ' interest rates  to deal with the emergency that started in 2007. Is this emergency still ongoing or did the QE fix it all? Anyway social protection and heath spending are massive contriutors to GDP so it is all OK, nothing to worry about ... just need more immigration to keep the GDP growing.

and ssshh I think the yanks raised their interest base rate to 1.75% but perhaps not as no one in UK in the government, the media or the bank of england have mention it ... so must not have happened.

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26 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

I don't know why more people don't just  phoenix their companies. I know someone who has been doing it for years and years and never gets caught. He just takes on loads of company debt, strikes it off and starts up another one, rinse and repeat, never pays a penny in corp tax. HMRC just don't have the manpower to investigate. 

Does he work in the print industry?

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27 minutes ago, Wahoo said:

IR35 has stuffed me over.....There's no point in working as a contractor anymore.

I'm going to set up a small business manufacturing stuff instead.

A little imagination and you’ll be fine. It’s a big world. ;)

 

31 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

I don't know why more people don't just  phoenix their companies. I know someone who has been doing it for years and years and never gets caught. He just takes on loads of company debt, strikes it off and starts up another one, rinse and repeat, never pays a penny in corp tax. HMRC just don't have the manpower to investigate. 

Not a white African perchance?

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2 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

A little imagination and you’ll be fine. It’s a big world. ;)

 

Not a white African perchance?

Err, that's... spooky. Is it commonplace among them?

7 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Does he work in the print industry?

No, catering / food. 

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34 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

I don't know why more people don't just  phoenix their companies. I know someone who has been doing it for years and years and never gets caught. He just takes on loads of company debt, strikes it off and starts up another one, rinse and repeat, never pays a penny in corp tax. HMRC just don't have the manpower to investigate. 

I'm surprised that a bit of due diligence isn't done before lending or giving credit.  It's an old game.

The Long Firm

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0220915/

 

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1 hour ago, spunko2010 said:

I don't know why more people don't just  phoenix their companies. I know someone who has been doing it for years and years and never gets caught. He just takes on loads of company debt, strikes it off and starts up another one, rinse and repeat, never pays a penny in corp tax. HMRC just don't have the manpower to investigate. 

No mileage for HMRC chasing bust companies so they leave it to the Insolvency Service

What they should do is 'lifestyle investigations ' on the company directors and then assessing them personally based on an estimate of the income needed to support it. That used to be hard but should now be a lot easier given the amount of electronic data available to the government. Fortunately for most tax evaders the Revenue are currently totally incapable of managing the huge amounts of information at their disposal but if they did ever get there IT sorted then life might become a lot more difficult for some people.

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12 hours ago, Wahoo said:

I'm going to set up a small business manufacturing stuff instead.

Estimate your costs and multiply by five.

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My method is to minimise income (to minimise tax payment), live frugally and buy second hand etc etc.

I do think it's important to 'give something back' though, but do this by involvement in local charities, community projects, church etc. 

I'm currently involved in a local project that will hopefully be of great benefit to my village but which doesn't involve any state entities. It helps strengthen the community and reinforce localism which I think is important as the globalists try to turn the country into a dumping ground for the world's flotsam and jetsam.

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I have a slight problem with the concept of tax avoidance being a moral duty. It seems a convenient way of covering selfishness to me. I've noticed that people who put forward the idea of tax avoidance being a moral duty are among the first to complain when services that are paid for with taxes are poor. 

A debate about what is fair is valid. I was enraged by IR35 when it first emerged, and never obeyed it. But if everyone behaves like all the white African contractors/businessmen I've known, or like Amazon/Apple/Starbucks/insert-name-here and contributes nothing, where will the state be? We need the state, just not like it is in the UK.

It's perfectly accurate to point out that especially since Brown taxes are being badly mis-spent on benefits and other inappropriate things but starving the state of all income is not the best response IMO. What is the best response? Probably to work towards a democracy that you can actually believe in, or leave the country, I suppose. 

 

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