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Frank Hovis

The Care Homes Crisis has Arrived

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Well it has been inevitable since the councils cut their payments rate from 2010.  These homes make a loss on every single council funded resident and try to cross subsidise it by private payers.  They are loaded up with debt by private equity owners and in something like half the homes the profits are not covering the interest payment so it's only a matter of time.

Anyway here's the first big one for a while, Allied Healthcare with 13,500 residents, going for a CVA.

The proximate cause is being cited as back pay for staff staying overnight, which was below minimum wage as they were allowed to sleep, but a robust business would absorb that.

The while sector is going to collapse leaving councils with an enormous headache.  But as the crisis is of their own making that's only fair.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43850046

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3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Anything that brings down a private equity backed business is ok with me. 

What's the alternative to private care homes?

Council care homes.

And the price will be at the very least double what they are currently paying.

So that's council tax shooting up.

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My 84 year old dad lives with me. I drive him everywhere, do his meds, cook etc.

Who do i invoice?

Its ironic that the one bit of European life that grabby remainers choose to ignore, is the extended family bit.

 

I have a Ukrainian Nurse slush find for when i am in such need.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

What's the alternative to private care homes?

Council care homes.

And the price will be at the very least double what they are currently paying.

So that's council tax shooting up.

I dunno what the alternative is. It seems whoever is in charge both workers and end users suffer. I would rather it cost more but have it all run on altruistic and not profit grounds 

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

What's the alternative to private care homes?

Council care homes.

And the price will be at the very least double what they are currently paying.

So that's council tax shooting up.

Surely you could have private care homes that didn't involve usustainable debt ?

Perhaps more independent private care homes where a person invests their own capital to create a business.

Edited by Hopeful

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

What's the alternative to private care homes?

Council care homes.

And the price will be at the very least double what they are currently paying.

So that's council tax shooting up.

Extended family. You want your inheritance.....look after your own wrinklies.  You know, like those Italians we're apparently all so fond of. 

Otherwise we'll fucking have it.

What May was attempting to promote at the last election.

Good decision, unbelievably SHIT timing form an election POV.

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8 minutes ago, One percent said:

I dunno what the alternative is. It seems whoever is in charge both workers and end users suffer. I would rather it cost more but have it all run on altruistic and not profit grounds 

It would certainly become altruistic, but not for the residents

A perpetual problem in the public/charity sector, have a read of 'The Warden' by Trollope

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warden

Edited by Panther

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6 minutes ago, shindigger said:

Extended family. You want your inheritance.....look after your own wrinklies.  You know, like those Italians we're apparently all so fond of. 

Otherwise we'll fucking have it.

What May was attempting to promote at the last election.

Good decision, unbelievably SHIT timing form an election POV.

Fine in most cases, except where you have been told you won't be left a penny and are still expected to do all the fetch and carry.

Edited by Hopeful

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Just now, Hopeful said:

Fine in most cases, except where you have been told you won't be left a penny, but are still expected to do all the fetch and carry.

Fuck them off then. Government has to use some carrot here. However i'm not set to inherit more than about £20k to be fair, so can't say that would work in all cases.

So i'm doing it out of duty i spose. Hes a top man my old fella, and is still reasonably active, but direction of travel is clear.

 

Mays policy re inheritance dipping was spot on in my view. There's pots of unearned there that need tapping in to.

About the only sensible thing she has ever proposed.

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10 minutes ago, shindigger said:

Fuck them off then. Government has to use some carrot here. However i'm not set to inherit more than about £20k to be fair, so can't say that would work in all cases.

So i'm doing it out of duty i spose. Hes a top man my old fella, and is still reasonably active, but direction of travel is clear.

 

Mays policy re inheritance dipping was spot on in my view. There's pots of unearned there that need tapping in to.

About the only sensible thing she has ever proposed.

 

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Just now, shindigger said:

But there are many very well off people who do not, and expect the state to handle things while they wait to pick up.

Yep, that is a scandal.

Feck knows why I do it im my case, always been difficult and totally undeserving.

 

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49 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Surely you could have private care homes that didn't involve usustainable debt ?

Perhaps more independent private care homes where a person invests their own capital to create a business.

Whats the cost breakdown? How much of the debt is used to pay for overpriced land/buildings?

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35 minutes ago, shindigger said:

Fuck them off then. Government has to use some carrot here. However i'm not set to inherit more than about £20k to be fair, so can't say that would work in all cases.

So i'm doing it out of duty i spose. Hes a top man my old fella, and is still reasonably active, but direction of travel is clear.

 

Mays policy re inheritance dipping was spot on in my view. There's pots of unearned there that need tapping in to.

About the only sensible thing she has ever proposed.

Has he asked you to knock him off at some point?

The rest of Europe has limited social care for the elderly. The family are expected to do it, or fund it.

43 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Fine in most cases, except where you have been told you won't be left a penny and are still expected to do all the fetch and carry.

In tgat case, just one fetch n caryy - to the nearest cliff.

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

In tgat case, just one fetch n caryy - to the nearest cliff.

I would if I could guarantee not getting found out

Edited by Hopeful

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1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

Well it has been inevitable since the councils cut their payments rate from 2010.  These homes make a loss on every single council funded resident and try to cross subsidise it by private payers.  They are loaded up with debt by private equity owners and in something like half the homes the profits are not covering the interest payment so it's only a matter of time.

Anyway here's the first big one for a while, Allied Healthcare with 13,500 residents, going for a CVA.

The proximate cause is being cited as back pay for staff staying overnight, which was below minimum wage as they were allowed to sleep, but a robust business would absorb that.

The while sector is going to collapse leaving councils with an enormous headache.  But as the crisis is of their own making that's only fair.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43850046

its going to get worse much faster,minimum wage will be 9 quid by the end of next year.thats over 12% higher wage bill by the end of next year alone and an increase in company contributions towards the new pension scheme will add a few more percent on.

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Tricky part is breaking the social contract.

You work, you pay tax, you buy a house, you pass that to your children.

When people realise they won't be doing that in the same way they' ll change their behaviour.

People that don't see a societal benefit at the later stage of life will protest at contributing towards the nurturing of others at the opposite stage.

In the words of the Facebook meme from May's election campaign - Don't expect me to pay for your elderly parent's social care so you can inherit their house.

Rebuffed by - That's fine but don't expect me to pay for teachers, schools and colleges to educate your children.

If people only contribute thinking they take something back somewhere along the line everything will fall apart.

No such thing as society.

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35 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Tricky part is breaking the social contract.

You work, you pay tax, you buy a house, you pass that to your children.

When people realise they won't be doing that in the same way they' ll change their behaviour.

People that don't see a societal benefit at the later stage of life will protest at contributing towards the nurturing of others at the opposite stage.

In the words of the Facebook meme from May's election campaign - Don't expect me to pay for your elderly parent's social care so you can inherit their house.

Rebuffed by - That's fine but don't expect me to pay for teachers, schools and colleges to educate your children.

If people only contribute thinking they take something back somewhere along the line everything will fall apart.

No such thing as society.

And the increasing number of 'have not's' and the growing devide between them and the 'Haves' that take cleverly, from them is why I think we are heading for our own Bastille day

Edited by Hopeful

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1 hour ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Tricky part is breaking the social contract.

You work, you pay tax, you buy a house, you pass that to your children.

When people realise they won't be doing that in the same way they' ll change their behaviour.

People that don't see a societal benefit at the later stage of life will protest at contributing towards the nurturing of others at the opposite stage.

In the words of the Facebook meme from May's election campaign - Don't expect me to pay for your elderly parent's social care so you can inherit their house.

Rebuffed by - That's fine but don't expect me to pay for teachers, schools and colleges to educate your children.

If people only contribute thinking they take something back somewhere along the line everything will fall apart.

No such thing as society.

Thresholds Timothy.

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Let's consider also that uncontrolled immigration leads to uncontrolled social care.

Every family that rocks up with 2.1 kids, needs childcare, school places, doctors, dentists, A&E, housing, benefits in one form or another ie WTC or JSA, hospital care, end of life care.

Obviously all the SJW-VS are happy to pay.

Maybe some others not so much.

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Just now, Bedrag Justesen said:

Let's consider also that uncontrolled immigration leads to uncontrolled social care.

Every family that rocks up with 2.1 kids, needs childcare, school places, doctors, dentists, A&E, housing, benefits in one form or another ie WTC or JSA, hospital care, end of life care.

Obviously all the SJW-VS are happy to pay.

Maybe some others not so much.

I think your 2.1 kids may be a significant understatement.

 

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