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Frank Hovis

Support gay marriage cake still going

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I thought this was finished but it's being heard by the supreme court today:
 

Quote

 

A Northern Ireland bakery found to have discriminated for refusing to make a "gay cake" will have its appeal heard by the Supreme Court later on Tuesday.

Ashers Bakery is challenging the ruling over their decision - in 2014 - not to make a cake iced with the slogan "Support Gay Marriage".

Appeal court judges upheld the original decision in 2016.

The Supreme Court will hear the case on Tuesday and Wednesday during its first hearings in Northern Ireland.

The case has so far cost the Equality Commission of Northern Ireland £150,000.

 

I do hope that this gets overturned.  IMO the bakery did not discriminate against the gay rights activist because he was gay; they just refused to produce a physical slogan with a message with which they fundamentally disagreed.  As, for example, a bakery owned by a Catholic who was asked by an extreme Protestant to back a cake with "Fuck the Pope" on it would be fully correct to refuse to bake that IMO and would not be discriminating againt Protestants in so doing.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43955734

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I think this case heralded the tidal wave of onerous claims of 'discrimination' against small businesses. 

I am in two minds about it however, one half of me thinks 'just bake the fucking cake' but another half thinks 'well it's your business therefore your rules'.

I personally hope it's overturned, not because I'm against gay marriage, more that it just opens the floodgates for any sort of egregious claims by people looking for a social media backed scrap, and we all know how many of these bellends there are out there.

There is only so much arse covering a small business should have to do.

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I think what one has to bear in mind that the tolerance of religious beliefs, and right to have them, that we're expected to adhere to in this country don't seem to extend to Christianity any more.

If it was my business, I'd have baked the cake, but I support their decision not to.

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The thing that annoys me about this is the way it is relentlessly and deliberately misrepresented. They didn't refuse to bake them a cake. They were in fact quite prepared to sell them a wedding cake for a gay marriage. What they refused to do was ice it with a political slogan that they fundamentally disagreed with. A fundamentally different proposition.

Edited by Hail the Tripod

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I was approached to do some work for the FLA last year.

Reputationally, it could have destroyed my business with a lot of my other clients.

Thankfully, they sensed my reluctance and we parted on friendly terms.

Which was the sensible solution for all concerned.

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Just now, Hail the Tripod said:

The thing that annoys me about this is the way it is relentlessly and deliberately misrepresented. They didn't refuse to bake them a cake. they were in fact quite prepared to sell them a wedding cake for a gay marriage. What they refused to do was ice it with a political slogan that they fundamentally disagreed with. A fundamentally different proposition.

Exactly.

It's like my having a bakery and somebody walking in and saying "I want a cake iced with the words "Frank Hovis is a total prat"".  I would refuse because firstly I disagree with that and secondly because I would know that they were only doing it to wind me up.

This seems to me like that is just what happened.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Exactly.

It's like my having a bakery and somebody walking in and saying "I want a cake iced with the words "Frank Hovis is a total prat"".  I would refuse because firstly I disagree with that and secondly because I would know that they were only doing it to wind me up.

This seems to me like that is just what happened.

If some Christians went into a gay owned bakery and asked them to bake a cake with some choice quotes from Leviticus, they would probably (and reasonably) refuse. So the action is neatly reversed. The Christians would still be the ones being prosecuted though.

Looks like they're back to square one of being the persecuted minority. 

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I thought this was finished but it's being heard by the supreme court today:
 

I do hope that this gets overturned.  IMO the bakery did not discriminate against the gay rights activist because he was gay; they just refused to produce a physical slogan with a message with which they fundamentally disagreed.  As, for example, a bakery owned by a Catholic who was asked by an extreme Protestant to back a cake with "Fuck the Pope" on it would be fully correct to refuse to bake that IMO and would not be discriminating againt Protestants in so doing.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43955734

I am sure that if a musilm bakery had refused to bake a cake with the slogan 'SupportGay Marriage' the case would have not gone to court as the islamic bakers' religious beliefs would have been respected. Also the SJWs always target christians and would never ask a muslim bakery to bake this type of cake ... I wonder why? I suspect fear of being killed or thrown of the top of the bakery roof which the good christans would never do of course.

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2 hours ago, satch said:

I am sure that if a musilm bakery had refused to bake a cake with the slogan 'SupportGay Marriage' the case would have not gone to court as the islamic bakers' religious beliefs would have been respected. Also the SJWs always target christians and would never ask a muslim bakery to bake this type of cake ... I wonder why? I suspect fear of being killed or thrown of the top of the bakery roof which the good christans would never do of course.

This.

No doubt the person requesting the cake would be prosecuted for a hate crime.  Christians are a easy target for the SJW's.  SJW's are fucking cowards.

 

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Also still going on, I just learnt, is the trial of the wife-parachute tamperer. It seems to have been going on for ever. WTF are they still finding to discuss? Surely any actual evidence could have been covered off in a fortnight tops. My wife was involved in quite a complex sexual abuse case the last time she got called and it was all done and dusted inside two weeks - she even had to serve on other minor cases afterwards as she hadnt completed her allotted service. So once again, WTF is there still to discuss in this parachute case?

Edited by Melchett

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1 hour ago, Melchett said:

Also still going on, I just learnt, is the trial of the wife-parachute tamperer. It seems to have been going on for ever. WTF are they still finding to discuss? Surely any actual evidence could have been covered off in a fortnight tops. My wife was involved in quite a complex sexual abuse case the last time she got called and it was all done and dusted inside two weeks - she even had to serve on other minor cases afterwards as she hadnt completed her allotted service. So once again, WTF is there still to discuss in this parachute case?

Isn't that a retrial?

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2 hours ago, Melchett said:

Also still going on, I just learnt, is the trial of the wife-parachute tamperer. It seems to have been going on for ever. WTF are they still finding to discuss? Surely any actual evidence could have been covered off in a fortnight tops. My wife was involved in quite a complex sexual abuse case the last time she got called and it was all done and dusted inside two weeks - she even had to serve on other minor cases afterwards as she hadnt completed her allotted service. So once again, WTF is there still to discuss in this parachute case?

The burd has admitted to lying continually through the to trial to make him look bad. 

Whether he did it or not - surely from a trial / legal perspective - that must be it over with O.o

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3 hours ago, Captain Cavey said:

For my next birthday, I’d like a cake shaped like a saluting pug in a Hugo Boss uniform.

Can’t imagine something so cute would offend anyone.

I assume that, like here, you can hand in a picture that a baker will print on a cake?

Please please will someone grab a still from Dankula's video of the pug, paw raised and send it get made!

For added bonus, get someone to make a complaint and see if the police investigate.

In the current climate, I would not bet against it!

Edited by Bkkandrew
Crapple

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Yeah bake them the cake and tell them you'll sell them an iceing tool for £49.99 so they can write whatever shit they want on it. 

Bakers will probably have to start refusing all requests to ice cakes with messages now. 

Such is the way.

I've said this before the way to win with this sort of stuff (like cultural appropriation & trans rights) is to accelerate it! like jump on it  ramp the fuck out of it, so you got blokes in dresses using womens toilets and changing rooms & no white people are allowed to attend the Mobos etc etc 

Get the masses squealing 

This is the way to win! 

 

Edited by WorkingPoor

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Peter Tatchell reflecting much of the debate here:
 

Quote

 

As a lifelong campaigner for LGBT rights, and as someone with gay friends in Northern Ireland who want to marry, I obviously strongly disagree with Ashers’ opposition to marriage equality.

But in a free society neither they, nor anyone else, should be compelled by law to promote an idea they object to.

These bakers didn’t turn away their gay customer – they gladly agreed to make Gareth a cake but declined to decorate it with the pro-gay marriage wording he wanted.

As much as I deplore their opposition to marriage equality, Ashers should not be forced to promote same-sex marriage, given that it goes against their religious beliefs - nor should they be obliged to endorse a LGBT equality movement they do not agree with.


 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6182820/ashers-christian-bakery-gay-cake/

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11 minutes ago, One percent said:

Christ, something sensible from tatchell. He has always come across to me as the epitome of gay sjwness 

I think he's like Germaine Greer; they both come from an era where it was a serious disadvantage to be a woman or gay.

They campaigned / wrote books for equality and for all practical purposes that has been achieved.

Now it's SJWs without a proper cause trying to create it and offence out of the slightest little thing and Greer and Tatchell are calling them out for their nonsense.

Good on them; they clearly both genuinely believed in their causes and were not just doing it for the money or publicity.

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5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I think he's like Germaine Greer; they both come from an era where it was a serious disadvantage to be a woman or gay.

They campaigned / wrote books for equality and for all practical purposes that has been achieved.

Now it's SJWs without a proper cause trying to create it and offence out of the slightest little thing and Greer and Tatchell are calling them out for their nonsense.

Good on them; they clearly both genuinely believed in their causes and were not just doing it for the money or publicity.

I guess so.  However, they are both incredibly quiet on the latest and greatest threat to both gay people and women. 

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2 hours ago, One percent said:

I guess so.  However, they are both incredibly quiet on the latest and greatest threat to both gay people and women. 

Thought I would have a look as it's a very good point.

Most of the top ranking results return a 404 not found. Albeit most point to just one site.

However..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/talkradio.co.uk/news/open-letter-pride-london-defend-council-ex-muslims-17081417398%3famp

And, Frank is absolutely spot-on with his take.

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4 hours ago, DTMark said:

Thought I would have a look as it's a very good point.

Most of the top ranking results return a 404 not found. Albeit most point to just one site.

However..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/talkradio.co.uk/news/open-letter-pride-london-defend-council-ex-muslims-17081417398%3famp

And, Frank is absolutely spot-on with his take.

Well, good on him for doing that. He at least seems to get what the issue is and is prepared to speak out.  Brave or foolish, I’m not sure. 

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On 01/05/2018 at 15:13, satch said:

I am sure that if a musilm bakery had refused to bake a cake with the slogan 'SupportGay Marriage' the case would have not gone to court as the islamic bakers' religious beliefs would have been respected. Also the SJWs always target christians and would never ask a muslim bakery to bake this type of cake ... I wonder why? I suspect fear of being killed or thrown of the top of the bakery roof which the good christans would never do of course.

I find that very hard to believe.

A muslim. Work?

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I guess that Tatchell is afraid of possible rebound effects.

He has fought for gay rights and just about achieved them.

Nonsense like this cake case gets the public's back up. If it goes too far there could be a rebound in public perception and much of the hard won ground lost.

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