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VeryMeanReversion

Law or Beliefs - Coroner must go

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43922000

Some quotes:

A London coroner has been ordered by the High Court to change her "cab-rank" queuing policy for handling burials after it was ruled "unlawful".

Senior coroner Mary Hassell had said she would not fast-track inquests based on religion. Under Jewish and Islamic law, bodies must be buried on the day of death or as soon as possible afterwards. 

Lawyers representing religious groups, who brought the legal challenge, argued Ms Hassell's stance ignored "deeply held beliefs" of certain religious communities.

 

 

 

 

I've been interested in this case as soon as I heard about it a few weeks ago. My first guess was that the coroner was about to be hounded out of her job for this as Feelings > Facts .   Does anyone else find this very disturbing? It simply looks like minority religious laws are assuming priority above UK law.   And nobody seems to notice.

My view was that it wasn't discriminatory at all, in fact it was an absolutely non-discriminatory practice to be treating everyone equally.

When religions that encourage murder of non-believers get to claim it is a deeply held belief, it's not really murder then.

 

 'Feelings > Facts' or even "Belief > Facts" is the new way.   A very dangerous path to follow.

 

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This came up months ago; the coroner is being entirely fair and non-discriminatory.

The attempted smear in comparing it to a cab rank merely served to underline this: everyone is served fairly in turn.

You may as well compare it to a supermarket till; again first there, first served.

It is warped to start deeming that an entirely fair and transparent system is discriminating when that is clearly the one thing that it is not doing.

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Just now, sleepwello'nights said:

Topsy turvy world indeed. Being non discriminatory is now regarded by the courts as discriminating because you refuse to allow someone to accept your non discriminatory rules!

The rather troubling element is that it is now apparently unlawful not to give priority to those of minority religious beliefs.

BTW, I do not accept the suggestion that "they" should have a parallel system just for themselves. This state within a state stuff is exactly what "they" want.

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52 minutes ago, eight said:

The rather troubling element is that it is now apparently unlawful not to give priority to those of minority religious beliefs.

BTW, I do not accept the suggestion that "they" should have a parallel system just for themselves. This state within a state stuff is exactly what "they" want.

On a similar vein, do you recall the video of muslims praying in a Royal Park and the police refusing to act on the legitimate complaint from a member of the public. It appears that the police subsequently enforced the rules and stopped a future attempt by muslims to pray in the park.

Perhaps the rather uninspiring commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick, should do the honourable thing and resign. After all she must share a great deal of the responsibility for being unable to stop the shocking increase in violent crime in our capital city.

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On 02/05/2018 at 08:15, sleepwello'nights said:

Topsy turvy world indeed. Being non discriminatory is now regarded by the courts as discriminating because you refuse to allow someone to accept your non discriminatory rules!

That's because anti-discriminatory laws are no longer about fairness and equality, if indeed they ever were. They are about granting privileges to certain favoured minority groups, basically turning Britain into an oriental despotism that runs on favouritism.  

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38 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

That's because anti-discriminatory laws are no longer about fairness and equality, if indeed they ever were. They are about granting privileges to certain favoured minority groups, basically turning Britain into an oriental despotism that runs on favouritism.  

sadly true,ive got an axe to grind on this subject but i couldnt get an answer 8 years ago so i certanly wont now.however we put in 20 complaints over the police /systems handeling over my sons death at 11 and they agreed we had 8 valid complaints.the army on the other hand were fantastic within 3 hours of being notified of his brothers death they had choppered him out from his outpost in afganistan and had him in brizenorton in under 24 hours.

Edited by stokiescum

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24 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

That's because anti-discriminatory laws are no longer about fairness and equality, if indeed they ever were. They are about granting privileges to certain favoured minority groups, basically turning Britain into an oriental despotism that runs on favouritism.  

no, no, no, she'd failed to serve the local communities

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26 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

no, no, no, she'd failed to serve the local communities

well my lad died on a sunday morning quite early and the family surport woman came in my opinion straight from a nighclub ,she had a skirt on that short you could see her thong if she bent over and she stunk of beer and was trying to chat up one of the coppers i kid you not.thats 3 complaints straight off,but looking back she was quite the looker ....no doubt she would have dressed different if she had been called to a muzzer kids death.

Edited by stokiescum

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1 hour ago, stokiescum said:

sadly true,ive got an axe to grind on this subject but i couldnt get an answer 8 years ago so i certanly wont now.however we put in 20 complaints over the police /systems handeling over my sons death at 11 and they agreed we had 8 valid complaints.the army on the other hand were fantastic within 3 hours of being notified of his brothers death they had choppered him out from his outpost in afganistan and had him in brizenorton in under 24 hours.

sorry for your loss stokie

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26 minutes ago, Carl Fimble said:

Muslims are awfully handy for others who have their own ideas about things such as burials and "blessed" food.

true,im an athiest and has such simple things like being allowed to bury your son should not be allowed to be dictated to by others beleives.has a child he was sent to birmingham for a specialist autopsy however it was posponed 3 times because of other deaths,now call me daft but im guessing muzzer or jewish child deaths took precidence.finaly burried him on the 20th of december ,has you might guess thats not a good time of the year to be trying to sort that sort of logistical problem out,luckily the undertakers steped in before i totaly flipped.all im asking for is no favritism ,is that much to ask ?

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19 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

true,im an athiest and has such simple things like being allowed to bury your son should not be allowed to be dictated to by others beleives.has a child he was sent to birmingham for a specialist autopsy however it was posponed 3 times because of other deaths,now call me daft but im guessing muzzer or jewish child deaths took precidence.finaly burried him on the 20th of december ,has you might guess thats not a good time of the year to be trying to sort that sort of logistical problem out,luckily the undertakers steped in before i totaly flipped.all im asking for is no favritism ,is that much to ask ?

If what you suspect is true then it is completely and utterly disgusting. What a sad indictment on today’s society that imaginary beliefs are put before the needs and rights of grieving parents. It must have been a difficult enough time  

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31 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

true,im an athiest and has such simple things like being allowed to bury your son should not be allowed to be dictated to by others beleives.has a child he was sent to birmingham for a specialist autopsy however it was posponed 3 times because of other deaths,now call me daft but im guessing muzzer or jewish child deaths took precidence.finaly burried him on the 20th of december ,has you might guess thats not a good time of the year to be trying to sort that sort of logistical problem out,luckily the undertakers steped in before i totaly flipped.all im asking for is no favritism ,is that much to ask ?

That's just asking for what is right and fair, this whole thing is ridiculous.

Shit you were put through that at any time Stokie, let alone after losing a child.

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2 hours ago, stokiescum said:

well my lad died on a sunday morning quite early and the family surport woman came in my opinion straight from a nighclub ,she had a skirt on that short you could see her thong if she bent over and she stunk of beer and was trying to chat up one of the coppers i kid you not.thats 3 complaints straight off,but looking back she was quite the looker ....no doubt she would have dressed different if she had been called to a muzzer kids death.

I am sorry for your loss. 
I am glad you had the strength to complain.

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So, I've had another thought about this since my latest diatribe.

For those of you who missed it, I speculated on replacing the fair first-come first-served arrangement with an equally 'fair' lottery or religious trivia quiz to determine whether the bereaved are devout enough to be determined worthy enough to jump the queue.

But I've had an epiphany (or a bottle of wine - you choose)...

I have another contender for the devout-o-meter. I call it the kerching test!

It's claimed that John Wesley once said, "The last thing to be converted is a man's wallet."

So...

If you want to jump the queue, show us the money!

Bring your bank statements in to the coroner's office.

If you've regularly given at least 10% of your gross income to bona fide good causes over the past 7 years; then yes, you deserve to jump the queue, whatever your religion is - even if you're a devotee of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and all His Noodly Goodness.

If not; no, you're just another scum-sucking atheist trying to use a veneer of religiosity to deny other grieving relatives the opportunity to deal with the death of a loved one in a  timely manner - you deserve to go to the back of the queue.

And no; sending cash via a hawaladar to Al Muhajiroun doesn't count - but GCHQ will be in touch...

 

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7 minutes ago, unregistered_guest said:

So, I've had another thought about this since my latest diatribe.

For those of you who missed it, I speculated on replacing the fair first-come first-served arrangement with an equally 'fair' lottery or religious trivia quiz to determine whether the bereaved are devout enough to be determined worthy enough to jump the queue.

But I've had an epiphany (or a bottle of wine - you choose)...

I have another contender for the devout-o-meter. I call it the kerching test!

It's claimed that John Wesley once said, "The last thing to be converted is a man's wallet."

So...

If you want to jump the queue, show us the money!

Bring your bank statements in to the coroner's office.

If you've regularly given at least 10% of your gross income to bona fide good causes over the past 7 years; then yes, you deserve to jump the queue, whatever your religion is - even if you're a devotee of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and all His Noodly Goodness.

If not; no, you're just another scum-sucking atheist trying to use a veneer of religiosity to deny other grieving relatives the opportunity to deal with the death of a loved one in a  timely manner - you deserve to go to the back of the queue.

And no; sending cash via a hawaladar to Al Muhajiroun doesn't count - but GCHQ will be in touch...

 

An interesting idea, but it shits on poor folk, who have as much of a right to be dealt with in a timely manner as anyone else. 

I wouldn't mind if there was a way for people in a hurry to pay to go "private" though, maybe not actually private but as an additional speedy service like the existing "pay extra for your passport to be rushed through" scheme. Obviously this would need to be done in a way that didn't allow dodgy deaths to be pushed through without proper checks being performed though.

First come, first served seems the only fair way otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

I can see both sides of this @Carl Fimble and @unregistered_guest  If some are going to jump the queue, then there must be a test for devoutness. 

Really? 

Surely anything other than first come, first served is unfair?

I was being generous with my suggestion of a "pay to be rushed through" thing, I would be fine with that (with the details I posted above) but as far as I'm concerned - fuck them and their ridiculous demands.

As (I think) @spygirl said on your thread on the same subject, we aren't in the middle east and we have refrigeration nowadays.

Edited by Carl Fimble
adding the word but

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10 minutes ago, Carl Fimble said:
22 minutes ago, unregistered_guest said:

 

An interesting idea, but it shits on poor folk, who have as much of a right to be dealt with in a timely manner as anyone else. 

To be blunt, poor folk statistically are more likely to give a higher proportion to good causes than tight-fisted rich gits.

I'm sure there's a PEW report on it somewhere...

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