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Turned Out Nice Again

Aging and Death - the biggest Red Pills

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While not yet staring into the Abyss peronally, I came across the following vid today in my YT feed - a young man, only 32, given his death sentence the modern way following an appointment with an oncologist, with us all in line behind him. Made me think of my mum and dad, an increasing roster of uncles and aunts, Corevalue on TOS and many others now departed. I wonder how I'm going to take it when I get to the front of the queue.

 

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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14 minutes ago, Carl Fimble said:

I haven't watched the video yet but will do. 

I looked up corevalue on ToS, here is his profile :

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/profile/9596-corevalue/

I take it he had cancer?

Yes, he announced a diagnosis of mesothelioma. There was a bit of discussion around treatment options and then he was gone. Good poster.

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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16 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

Yes, he announced a diagnosis of mesothelioma. There was a bit of discussion around treatment options and then he was gone. Good poster.

Yes, he was a top guy. He helped me immensely privately and was very generous with his time and wise words despite being up against it healthwise. I'll post here a little comic strip he sent me as he was battling with the docs:

Sadly missed 🙁

Attachment2.2.gif

Edited by The Idiocrat

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1 hour ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

Yes, he announced a diagnosis of mesothelioma. There was a bit of discussion around treatment options and then he was gone. Good poster.

God, I suppose it's in the post for all of us, none of us will make it out alive, still...

Yes, I had a quick read of a few of his posts, seemed to be pretty switched on.

 

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I think as you get older you adapt to the idea of your own mortality. I certainly don't know many old people who fear death, most of them when it crops up in conversation take it in a matter of fact way. Fear of death is in some ways a middle-aged affliction, not something that affects the elderly. I knew someone who recently dropped dead instantly of a heart attack aged 69; a shock for his family but he was in the fullness of life and hadn't had to spend ages rotting away in a care home with dementia, personally I'd rather go the same way as him. 

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16 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I think as you get older you adapt to the idea of your own mortality. I certainly don't know many old people who fear death, most of them when it crops up in conversation take it in a matter of fact way. Fear of death is in some ways a middle-aged affliction, not something that affects the elderly. I knew someone who recently dropped dead instantly of a heart attack aged 69; a shock for his family but he was in the fullness of life and hadn't had to spend ages rotting away in a care home with dementia, personally I'd rather go the same way as him. 

I think key to this attitude is aging really badly, such that you come to welcome death as a relief from suffering. I can't see how you'd want to go otherwise.

As in the incontinent care home scenario - another horror again.

Living in Worthing as I do (2nd oldest town in the country) I'm constantly reminded of the latter.

The purpose of disease then - with the assistance of the medical profession - is to make life eventually intolerable.

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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20 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I think as you get older you adapt to the idea of your own mortality. 

Yes my Dad mentioned casually over dinner that at 65 years old he's perfectly ok with the fact that he'll die someday, and it may be soon or it may not be for a while.

I hope I reach 65 and hope that I'm as relaxed about my own mortality then!

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5 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I think key to this attitude is aging really badly, such that you come to welcome death as a relief from suffering. I can't see how you'd want to go otherwise.

As in the incontinent care home scenario - another horror again.

Living in Worthing as I do (2nd oldest town in the country) I'm constantly reminded of the latter.

The purpose of disease then - with the assistance of the medical profession - is to make life eventually intolerable.

I think it's more than that. I think people past middle aged often begin to feel that their time is done, that they have lived and experienced all they can. Losing loved ones and seeing the world change beyond recognition is part of it I think, but I also think nature has a way of telling us that we need to step down and that death is nothing to be afraid of. I have a sense of this  myself, in my mid forties, not strong but stronger than it was even five years ago. A lot of the classical philosophers have written meditations along these lines, particularly Marcus Aurelius. 

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My mother was diagnosed with cancer recently.

I was really struck by how little it seemed to bother her. Her attitude was, "I've lived a full life, seen my kids grow up, seen my grandchildren flourishing, travelled the world, read the best books, eaten the best food. If I go now, I'll have no complaints, I've already done all the best bits."

Fortunately, as it turns out they were able to excise the tumour successfully, and she seems to have made a full recovery.

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18 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I think it's more than that. I think people past middle aged often begin to feel that their time is done, that they have lived and experienced all they can. Losing loved ones and seeing the world change beyond recognition is part of it I think, but I also think nature has a way of telling us that we need to step down and that death is nothing to be afraid of. I have a sense of this  myself, in my mid forties, not strong but stronger than it was even five years ago. A lot of the classical philosophers have written meditations along these lines, particularly Marcus Aurelius. 

What you speak of has been alluded to in fantasy literature, with tales of the world-weary Count Dracula and Comte Saint-Germain, in films like "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman", "The Hunger" and "Highlander". Yet I'll be 60 in 5 months and am not convinced and not yet reconciled to oblivion. I'm not finished.

 

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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Just now, Turned Out Nice Again said:

This has also been alluded to in fantasy literature, with tales of the world-weary Count Dracula and Comte Saint-Germain, in films like "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman", "The Hunger" and "Highlander". I'll be 60 in 5 months and am not convinced and not yet reconciled to oblivion.

Not ready to go as there is still lots of fun to be had. 

Once my health goes, as it does for everyone eventually, I reckon I won't give a damn, I'd like my daughter to be grown up before that.

As for you - you have lots more to do yet, to make up for 20 years married to someone who gave you no affection and has left you famished.  Even my missus, who is a pain rather too much of the time, is affectionate and sexy some of the time.

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48 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

At 2 minutes 30.

 

I think that's the Blue Pill take on death. 

41 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Not ready to go as there is still lots of fun to be had. 

Once my health goes, as it does for everyone eventually, I reckon I won't give a damn, I'd like my daughter to be grown up before that.

As for you - you have lots more to do yet, to make up for 20 years married to someone who gave you no affection and has left you famished.  Even my missus, who is a pain rather too much of the time, is affectionate and sexy some of the time.

The question is ... which comes first? health going? Or not giving a damn?

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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Just now, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I think that's the Blue Pill take on death. 

Could be.

Afraid I'm not au fait with the meaning of all that is Blue Pill or Red Pill.

We're certainly not all multimillionaires with beautiful wives and daughters and mansions and everything all nice, that's for sure.

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20 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

My mother was diagnosed with cancer recently.

I was really struck by how little it seemed to bother her. Her attitude was, "I've lived a full life, seen my kids grow up, seen my grandchildren flourishing, travelled the world, read the best books, eaten the best food. If I go now, I'll have no complaints, I've already done all the best bits."

Fortunately, as it turns out they were able to excise the tumour successfully, and she seems to have made a full recovery.

Glad to hear your mum's OK.

I did read somewhere that many people's biggest regret on their deathbeds is not starting a family if they never got around to it. My family's far from perfect but at the end of the day we're essentially there for each other and will continue to be as and when we get ill, in a way that friends may not be.

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23 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

What you speak of has been alluded to in fantasy literature, with tales of the world-weary Count Dracula and Comte Saint-Germain, in films like "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman", "The Hunger" and "Highlander". Yet I'll be 60 in 5 months and am not convinced and not yet reconciled to oblivion. I'm not finished.

 

Being reconciled to oblivion doesn't necessarily mean desiring death or not desiring to live. I think it's more about accepting mortality, or the finitude of life. In past ages where death was ever-present, people were accustomed to this and even kept 'memento mori' (such as a skull) to remind them of this. As the Prayer Book puts it, 'in the midst of life we are in death' meaning that one cannot truly live without a sense of its negation, just as light cannot exist without shadow.

Marcus Aurelius puts it far better than I can: (not a Christian, but St Paul and others were probably influenced by the Graeco-Roman philosophical approach to death); 

As generation is, so also death, a secret of nature’s wisdom: a mixture of elements, resolved into the same elements again, a thing surely which no man ought to be ashamed of: in a series of other fatal events and consequences, which a rational creature is subject unto, not improper or incongruous, nor contrary to the natural and proper constitution of man himself...He that would not have such things to happen, is as he that would have the fig-tree grow without any sap or moisture.

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36 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I think that's the Blue Pill take on death. 

The question is ... which come first? health going? Or not giving a damn?

I think you've got something there, I was much less bothered by the thought of dying when I was really ill last year than I am now that I've mostly recovered.

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34 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Glad to hear your mum's OK.

I did read somewhere that many people's biggest regret on their deathbeds is not starting a family if they never got around to it. My family's far from perfect but at the end of the day we're essentially there for each other and will continue to be as and when we get ill, in a way that friends may not be.

https://www.thedailypositive.com/top-10-regrets-dying/

Infographic+The+Top+10+Regrets+In+Life+By+Those+About+To+Die-Addicted2Success1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Austin Allegro said:

I think as you get older you adapt to the idea of your own mortality. I certainly don't know many old people who fear death, most of them when it crops up in conversation take it in a matter of fact way. Fear of death is in some ways a middle-aged affliction, not something that affects the elderly. I knew someone who recently dropped dead instantly of a heart attack aged 69; a shock for his family but he was in the fullness of life and hadn't had to spend ages rotting away in a care home with dementia, personally I'd rather go the same way as him. 

It’s the way my mum went, but a decade older. An incredible shock for me but reflecting on it, the very best way to go 

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