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Cunning Plan

Is it time for ID cards?

I.D. Cards. Yes or no?  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Has the time come where we have no choice but to have ID cards

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      24


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Posted (edited)

I think we have little choice. Apparently, we are the only European country without them, which is almost as much as an immigrant draw as our benefits.

We are going to need them sooner or later.

Edited by Cunning Plan

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I was very much with No2ID back in the day, back when I foolishly believed we had strong borders. Now my only concern would be who is actually expected to produce an ID and will asking certain groups be considered wasist?.

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1 minute ago, wherebee said:

no.  they will be used against the law abiding population and thus are to be resisted.

That is my concern as well, it appears one rule for us and none for others.

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Posted (edited)

My feeling is that the gov has all the data (HMRC big data) but struggles to link it all together.

I would be against an I'd card that HAD to be shown when just out and about, but for one that needed showing whenever you needed to interact with the state.

Edited by Cunning Plan

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So what difference would it make. Say we have an illegal hate preacher and his famil,y would having an ID card get rid of him in less than 10 years and save the million or so in legal aid .... and his family are still here some in taxpayer paid for housing and some in prison. They knew he was illegal and still it made no difference and that uber driver who ran into people recently .... illegal and released not shipped off on the first plane. Just another stick to beat the law abiding over the head with.

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8 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Most people have them in the form of passports and driving licenses.  What benefit would it bring?

I think the I'd card is a red herring. It is really about bringing all the different databases together under one unique identifying number. Which would be both good and bad for the government.

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As me and my mates used to joke about back in the day... There'll be a box to tick on the application form for you to state whether you're here legally or not.

Your immigration status will make no difference to whether you're entitled to one. But neither will they confer any kind of status, like a passport does. 

But it will provide a way to get biometric identifiers on a database for everyone, legal or not.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Apparently, we are the only European country without them

Ihre Ausweispapiere, bitte!

I wouldn't read much into our being the only European country without them. The Continent still use a form of Roman law. We have a different history to them, having resisted Roman rule and fascism as best we could over the centuries.

If a policeman has doubts about someone's identity, he can issue a summons, so that a magistrate can get to the bottom of the matter.

I imagine that where rings are run around the police and other authorities is when people feign not being able to speak English. It is too much hassle to try to find a translator of middle Pavlovian on a weekend that the person is let go, or given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe if we had a rule that a person could be deported for not knowing one of the official languages of the UK, then we might find that all of a sudden, many problems go away.

 

Edited by Everentt

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47 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Most people have them in the form of passports and driving licenses.  What benefit would it bring?

And NI.

1 hour ago, wherebee said:

no.  they will be used against the law abiding population and thus are to be resisted.

Yeah that's my concern too.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Libspero said:

Most people have them in the form of passports and driving licenses.  What benefit would it bring?

I can think of many.

Part of my work is designing (small) databases and interrogating them.

Now just think if the gov had one record that showed where you were born, your immigration status, your job and how much tax you paid along with how much you received in benefits, school for your kids, gp and hospital visits etc.

Now I would expect everyone to be able to log in to their own record and see their data. It may come as a shock for some.

But we could ask the gov to run an 'country of birth = Nigeria, list sum of tax - sum of benefits query.

Which I don't think they want the ability to do.

 

 

Edited by Cunning Plan

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As Satch said, what difference would it make? as things are, it certainly wouldn't make any difference to illegals so would only impact on legals.

 

If ID was combined with repatriation of illegals, I might be persuaded, but fat chance of that happening.

 

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10 minutes ago, snagger said:

As Satch said, what difference would it make? as things are, it certainly wouldn't make any difference to illegals so would only impact on legals.

 

If ID was combined with repatriation of illegals, I might be persuaded, but fat chance of that happening.

 

ID would make it very difficult for the illegal ones to survive in the UK.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

ID would make it very difficult for the illegal ones to survive in the UK.

in what way?

Responsible employers already require proof of right to work, the black market employers still won't give a shit. And those that do come to the attention of authorities will still get treated the same as they are now, only they will be given an ID card.

ID cards may act as a small deterant in attracting illegals, but the price is too high, and there are better ways of reducing the attraction of migration to the UK.

Edited by snagger

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2 minutes ago, snagger said:

in what way?

Responsible employers already require proof of right to work, the black market employers still won't give a shit. And those that do come to the attention of autorities will still get treated the same as they are now, only they will be given an ID card.

ID cards may act as a small deterant in attracting illegals, but the price is too high, and there are better ways of reducing the attraction of migration to the UK.

No benefits. No school for the kids. No medical treatment. No bank account.

To be honest, I have no idea how illegal immigrants survive in the UK unless they have access to some of our largesse. 

My guess is they do have access and the authorities have not asked the awkward questions / turned a blind eye for years.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

No benefits. No school for the kids. No medical treatment. No bank account.

To be honest, I have no idea how illegal immigrants survive in the UK unless they have access to some of our largesse. 

My guess is they do have access and the authorities have not asked the awkward questions / turned a blind eye for years.

>No benefits. No school for the kids. No medical treatment. No bank account.<

We know there are illegals here, the authorities know who many are, they get medical treatment, their kids get put in schools, they get benefits, and they probably get bank accounts to receive their benefits.

Edited by snagger

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9 minutes ago, snagger said:

in what way?

Responsible employers already require proof of right to work, the black market employers still won't give a shit. And those that do come to the attention of authorities will still get treated the same as they are now, only they will be given an ID card.

ID cards may act as a small deterant in attracting illegals, but the price is too high, and there are better ways of reducing the attraction of migration to the UK.

Yep. They haven't tried anything at all to get rid of illegals so the first thing they do is this...? 

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ID cards, AFR (Automatic Face Recognition and social media.

BBC Wales reported last week about the system South Wales Police use returning thousands of false positives. Same system used by other forces around the country including London.

A suggestion made that the 'unique special database has around 500k profiles.

The same day Facebook requested permission to switch on Face Recognition in my privacy settings to allow my image to be identified and tagged in other user's photographs.

That's one way to boost the database for the Police.

Another would be compulsory ID cards.

One wag commented that from then on they would start wearing a mask when going out of the house.

Islam halfway there.

 

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1 minute ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Another would be compulsory ID cards.

I.D. cards aren't the goal are they? They are one of the tools that will be used to impose what they actually want. Full CCTV population identification linked to some massive database.

It will go something like... "We already have I.D. cards, how can you complain about the database? It's just to bring all the data together to protect it from hackers or something."

Then it will be... "You can't have cashless money, a job, drive, get into any public building and the police will harass you from the moment you leave your house. Just for criticising the government."

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I was against ID cards when the NueLiebour were pushing them and haven’t changed my mind.

Born in uk and have a birth certificate, longstanding NI record plus I’ve held a driving licence (now have photo one because of an address change) for 43 years.

As others have posted they’ll get handed out profusely anyway but sometimes not to an eligible person who lives in and contributes to the uk.

ID cards are slippery slope to even more state control for ordinary decent folk IMO so I’m still resisting.

 

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