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JackieO

Jerusalem

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13 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I doubt if they're playing this in Gaza today. At least 41 people killed.

Aye Gazans gone nuts something to do with an embassy in Jerusalem 

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1 minute ago, JFK said:

It's all Trump's fault apparently - if you listened to the lamestream legacy meedja of course.

Apparently it's 'controversial' (although this is never explored - it's just put out there to act as a meme, to, if you want, indoctrinate you subconciously) that Israel's capital is now recognised .... apparently this is only controversial now. 

Because of Trump

... nobody points out that all previous administrations and the UN have recognised Israel's capital ....

 

Yeah, but Trump actually moved the embassy instead of just making empty promises and that makes him worse than Hitler 

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Someone told me that this is all about pleasing Trump's fundamentalist Christian support, because they all believe the "Rapture" (where Christian believers get taken off the earth directly into heaven) can't happen until the Jews are all restored to Jerusalem and Israel.

So the Palestinians aren't even going to get a bone thrown to them later, this is just Trump saying he's 100% on Israel's side.

I knew the fundies believed in this Rapture idea but didn't know there were prophecies relating to Israel and the Jews tied up with it.

Loonies, the lot of them IMO.

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15 minutes ago, This Time said:

Yeah, but Trump actually moved the embassy instead of just making empty promises and that makes him worse than Hitler 

Absolutely

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8 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I knew the fundies believed in this Rapture idea but didn't know there were prophecies relating to Israel and the Jews tied up with it.

Being a lapsed Catholic now trying to find a new Christian community I find this stuff confusing too. Hence this thread ;)

From Breitbart...

American Christians Celebrate Historic Opening of U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem

Quote

On the eve of the historic move of the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, American Christians are expressing how the development is also a milestone for them as the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and a cornerstone of their faith.

“Israel is a nation unlike any other because it was created by God, not by man,” Greg Laurie, senior pastor of Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California, Harvest Church at Kumulani in Kapalua, Hawaii, and Harvest Orange County in Irvine, California, told Breitbart News.

“As Christians, we believe the Lord gave the land of Israel to Abraham and his offspring in an everlasting covenant, and this includes Jerusalem,” Laurie said, citing Psalm 89:28-37 in the Old Testament.

Laurie said in Psalms 122:6 Christians are commanded to “pray for the peace of Jerusalem” — “May those who love you be secure.”

“It’s critical that America recognize what God has already established — the land of Jerusalem belongs to Israel,” Laurie said.

“As a Christian, I am called to stand with the Jewish people, so I will always remain an unapologetic supporter of the free and democratic State of Israel,” Jentezen Franklin, senior pastor of Free Chapel Worship Center and its satellite campuses in Gainesville, Georgia, told Breitbart News.

Nope still confused....

2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I think they preferred the song from Cyprus.

I thought Israel won?

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13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Exactly!

"They" being the "what shall we riot about this week?" Palestinians in Gaza.

:$ still not getting it :$......

Sorry

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Just now, JackieO said:

:$ still not getting it :$......

Sorry

It's a very weak joke that the real reason that there are riots against Israel in the Gaza Strip is because they are passionate about Eurovision and think that the Israeli song unfairly robbed victory from the Cyprus song.

I won't pursue it further.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

It's a very weak joke that the real reason that there are riots against Israel in the Gaza Strip is because they are passionate about Eurovision and think that the Israeli song unfairly robbed victory from the Cyprus song.

I won't pursue it further.

No worries :)

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3 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I doubt if they're playing this in Gaza today. At least 41 people killed.

BBC reporting highest Palistinian casualties since the 2014 war or is that highest casualties since they last attacked their heavily armed neighbours ? 

Either way all very sad, if only both parties realised there is no after life 

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5 minutes ago, Malthus said:

BBC reporting highest Palistinian casualties since the 2014 war or is that highest casualties since they last attacked their heavily armed neighbours ? 

Either way all very sad, if only both parties realised there is no after life 

Yes - the middle East was a perfectly peaceful and lovely place prior to Trump coming to power. xD

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I don’t even pretend to understand what’s going on with the middle east. We have changed sides so often, feted, then vilified, then feted again, before killing leaders.  We (well bliar) have lied and taken us into illegal wars.  

The worst offender against humanity appears to have the whole western world’s leaders by the balls so that they appease and ignore mass murder and terrorism on our own shores. 

I really can’t make head nor tail of it all.  

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2 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Someone told me that this is all about pleasing Trump's fundamentalist Christian support, because they all believe the "Rapture" (where Christian believers get taken off the earth directly into heaven) can't happen until the Jews are all restored to Jerusalem and Israel.

I wouldn't take any notice of the rantings of dispensationalists  who seem to have conveniently erased Matthew 24:36 from their Bibles.

Now, rantings from an amillenial perspective - particularly if it's been influenced by dominion theology. That's much more scary....

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2 hours ago, JackieO said:

Being a lapsed Catholic now trying to find a new Christian community I find this stuff confusing too. Hence this thread ;)

As a very, very bad catholic, I still reckon it’s better to be a bad catholic than a good anything else. It’s just a personal point of view and I am not preaching. I’ve not had a sacrament in 12 years but am trying to raise the kids in the church. Happy to discuss if you PM me. 

 

#notagodbothererreally

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JackieO said:

Being a lapsed Catholic now trying to find a new Christian community I find this stuff confusing too. Hence this thread

Are you looking for a new Catholic church, or something less doctrinal, like the Quakers, for example?

On your original question, I find the obsessive interest of evangelical American protestants in Israel to be quite odd. As I understand it, they have built an entire and detailed narrative of what must happen in the middle east before the end of the world; partly out of bits and pieces in Revelation (treated in the most literal manner), partly out of strands of non-conformist ideas from 19th century England, and partly incorporating a good admixture of American patriotism and downright lunacy. The story evolves with events, most notably when the Soviet Union collapsed, as that was the "anti-christ" in the narrative at the time; but it is always apocalyptic and leads to the total triumph of the elect (who, fortunately, happen to be evangelical Christians who believe exactly this version of the eschatology).

It's a bit like a modern-day version of the wandering Jew (as you obviously know, Jesus said something along the lines of "this generation shall not pass away before the son of man comes in glory", and since he hasn't shown up, people believed that there must be one Jew from that generation who was doomed to stay alive until Jesus returned). I always found that rather sweet, but the modern version is much darker and more divisive: For some reason, the adherents think ( a ) the end of the world is a good thing, because despite all the suffering, they will be "triumphant" (in some ill-defined sense) at the end of it; ( b ) they must not only cheer on these events, but actively take the initiative out of God's hands, and ( c ) they feel compelled to meddle dangerously (by voting in meddling nut-cases) in some the most incendiary parts of the world.

It would be as though a medieval Christian made it his mission to hunt down and kill the poor old wandering Jew - which, come to think about it, maybe some of them did, considering all the pogroms.

Anyway, it's all total madness, and I can't see how any of it marries up with either the teachings from the gospels, or any of the Christian morality (for ordinary adherents*) that evolved over the subsequent centuries.

 

*The "morality" and practices of some of the leaders of the church is an entirely different matter, and probably bears a closer relation this kind of political nonsense. As far as I can see, the very highest of high politics in the church has always been a matter of international power struggles, and occasional mass-murder.

 

Edited by BurntBread
Misplaced parenthesis, and more rambling.

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4 minutes ago, Horrified Onlooker said:

As a very, very bad catholic, I still reckon it’s better to be a bad catholic than a good anything else. It’s just a personal point of view and I am not preaching. I’ve not had a sacrament in 12 years but am trying to raise the kids in the church. Happy to discuss if you PM me. 

 

#notagodbothererreally

Better a bad Catholic than a good one.

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58 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

The rest of the Arab world is perfectly happy with the Palestinians' repeated riots and deaths on the Gaza strip because it makes Israel look bad.  If any of the major Arab states (Saudi in particular) genuinely cared about them they would allow them to resettle in their rich countries; they don't care because they are merely a useful propaganda weapon against Israel and entirely expendable in that cause.

I'd give the Nobel Prize for Hypocrisy to Kuwait.

Another thread has already highlighted the  Nayirah testimony

But what actually happened in Kuwait in 90/91 was that a large number of Palestinians stayed and resisted the invasion.

OK, half fled, along with the Kuwaitis. And Arafat made a fool of himself in Palestine.

But the abysmal treatment of the remaining Palestinians on the return of the Kuwaiti government would have made even the most hard-hearted Israeli say, "Steady on now,  play fair!"

There's a sanitised precis of it on wikipedia.

The Jordanians would more likely nominate the UK as the biggest hypocrites though. After all we started the ball rolling with the Balfour Declaration...

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