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Long time lurking

Italian desperation ?

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Posted (edited)

Is this just the establishment attempting to throw a spanner in the works 

 

Quote

Court allows Berlusconi to run for office, derailing Italy coalition talks

 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/426710-berlusconi-italy-court-elections/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

I smell a rat

Edited by Long time lurking

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7 hours ago, DTMark said:

What's happening in Italy isn't so different from the situation in Germany where Merkel struggled to form a government for months. Of course our media here barely paid any attention to this. (Andrew Neal has been following and reporting on it). In both cases, immigration was and is the number one issue.

And in turn not so very different from here, it's just that we're further along in leaving the European Union.

Back in the day, politicians in Greece and Italy decided to sign an agreement that made them liable for all immigration from Africa (asylum in the first country of entry) and it would seem a bit late to start worrying about this now it has become an issue, begging the other EU states as if they're somehow liable to help out.

That wasn't what you signed.

But they can always leave the EU.

We can hope. And in Italy's case, this may well become a reality. Please let it be so.

Italy has never had to deal with immigrants hanging around.

They really hate it.

There's always been migrants in Italy - transitting thru to the North.

Now the numbers are insane.

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I have to admit to having totally switched off to the Italy stuff due to the complexity of WTF is going on there. I have got the impression that there is going to be the usual political fudge and selling out of the voters. I hope not.

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Just now, The Masked Tulip said:

I have to admit to having totally switched off to the Italy stuff due to the complexity of WTF is going on there. I have got the impression that there is going to be the usual political fudge and selling out of the voters. I hope not.

The whole thing is covered by the same Twitter user - in Italy, reporting the story as it unfolds, in excellent English. Scroll up a few posts in this thread - well worth a read.

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24 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

.

Quote

 

Details

Five Star and the League expect the ECB to forgive 250 billion euros in Italian bonds bought via quantitative easing, in order to bring down Italy's debt

The two parties want to re-open European Treaties and to "radically reform" the stability and growth pact. The coalition would also want to reconsider Italy's contribution to the EU budget.

According to @HuffPostItalia, the 5 Star/League draft agreement would include an opt-out mechanism to leave the euro in an "agreed manner" were there to be a "clear popular will" to do so.

The draft document says Italy should stay in Nato, but asks for an immediate withdrawal of sanctions vs Russia, so that Moscow can return to be a "strategic partner" in conflict zones

According to @HuffPostItalia, the 5 Star/League draft document says there would be a "flat tax"... but with several tax rates and deductions

Italy's pension reform would be dismantled: workers would be able to retire when the sum of their retirement age and years of contribution is at least 100.

The draft coalition agreement of a 5 Star/Lega government leaked to @HuffPostItalia calls for a revision of the Dublin regulation on immigration and for compulsory relocation of asylum seekers across the EU

The draft coalition agreement of a 5 Star/Lega government leaked to @HuffPostItalia calls for a revision of the Dublin regulation on immigration and for compulsory relocation of asylum seekers across the EU

 

 

Italy's new leaders should seriously look into how much of the list they are entitled to to under the existing eu treaties.  I doubt it's all of them ((who knows?) but it might be some of them and maybe most of them. 

For example for years the British government said doing stuff wasn't possible because it was against eu law.  Then after Cameron's "negotiations" before the referendum Cameron returned and the outcome of his negotiations was a list of feeble concessions - the eu had only been prepared to grant those concessions (according to him they were amazing concessions and he'd been tough on the eu - of course).

Soon afterwards the eu said that any concessions were already available to Britain under the treaties - they hadn't conceded anything.

Italy - check the treaties.

 

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40 minutes ago, twocents said:

Italy's pension reform would be dismantled: workers would be able to retire when the sum of their retirement age and years of contribution is at least 100.

I like that one :)

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I like that one :)

Just to say that the bit you quoted was from zerohedge not me.  I don't know how accurate the claim is without looking it up more.  I'm taking zerohedge's word for it. 

I like to make stuff like that clear :D ;)

Edited by twocents

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3 minutes ago, twocents said:

Just to say that the bit you quoted was from zerohedge not me.  I don't know how accurate the claim is without looking it up more.  I'm taking zerohedge's word for it. 

I like to make stuff like that clear :D ;)

Perfectly clear.

I still like it though :D

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Perfectly clear.

I still like it though :D

.

Quote

 

Italy's pension reform would be dismantled: workers would be able to retire when the sum of their retirement age and years of contribution is at least 100.

 

 

Italy's current system must be pretty awful if they're saying that's an improvement as that's effectively not that much different to the system in Britain which is pretty mean compared to many countries.  So I assume that it's worse for the workers than now and it's in exchange for some of the other points such as debt reduction?

If there's another vote it might go against them because of that?

Edited by twocents

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6 minutes ago, twocents said:

.

 

Italy's current system must be pretty awful if they're saying that's an improvement as that's effectively not that much different to the system in Britain which is pretty mean compared to many countries.  So I assume that it's worse for the workers than now and it's in exchange for some of the other points such as debt reduction?

If there's another vote it might go against them because of that?

I like the fact that number of years worked has some kind of impact.

Only work for 20 years - tough, you are retiring at 80.

Start work at 16 (and keep going) and you can retire at 58.

Seems very fair to me.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I like the fact that number of years worked has some kind of impact.

Only work for 20 years - tough, you are retiring at 80.

Start work at 16 (and keep going) and you can retire at 58.

Seems very fair to me.

Yes - though it's often the small print and extra rules elsewhere that undermines it all or at least I think that's the case in Britain.

Edited by twocents

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2 hours ago, twocents said:

Italy's pension reform would be dismantled: workers would be able to retire when the sum of their retirement age and years of contribution is at least 100.

 

Isn't that what is being implemented in the UK. 

No bother to me I'm getting mine :)(smug emoticom)

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Isn't that what is being implemented in the UK. 

No bother to me I'm getting mine :)(smug emoticom)

They're not my words I was quoting zerohedge so I'm assuming it's correct - it does sound similar to the UK's system which I guess is/was maybe an attempt in progress to harmonise with the eu to some extent. 

The problem is all the bells and whistles that might be separately attached and elsewhere with knobs on which is the drawback of the UK system.

Edited by twocents

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The idea that the debt will be cancelled "just because they ask nicely" seems ludicrous.

Especially if they're considering holding a referendum on EU membership. Or, just leaving.

I can't help but suppose the two are in some way linked.

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