£250K to rent a unit in a shopping centre

[spygirl]

I think the eatery addon to WestQuay was a step too far.

 

[Lightscribe]

I’m waiting on Westfields in Croydon to be mothballed. Absolutely hundreds of overpriced ‘luxury’ flats have been built on the promise of the redevelopment Westfield will supposedly bring. If Westfields pull out, the housing market downturn in Croydon will be spectacular.

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, Sideysid said:

I’m waiting on Westfields in Croydon to be mothballed. Absolutely hundreds of overpriced ‘luxury’ flats have been built on the promise of the redevelopment Westfield will supposedly bring. If Westfields pull out, the housing market downturn in Croydon will be spectacular.

30 years ago, I remember a frined of my parents telling then about the luxury flat he'd bought in Eston, boro.

Its probably worth less now than hen. Assuming its not been stolen, brick by brick.

[invalid]

On 16/05/2018 at 11:01, DTMark said:

Yes. But it's a downward spiral. As town centres become full of boarded-up shops, the reasons to go there become fewer and fewer.

So the logic which says that one of the reasons to pay a substantial rent is because the area itself brings with it a ready-made market for you to exploit is less and less true.

The expression "burning the candle at both ends" comes to mind.

Local high street doesn't have much other than turkish barbers (lots of) and charity shops along with take aways.

Local town shopping centre has many units that have not been occupied for many years.

The Councils solution is to build some kiosks (same size as a market stall), it will be interesting to see if they work.

[spunko]

Supermarkets could kill Clintons in one fell swoop, all they need to do is get together and decide they're going to charge max £1 for any card. Within 6 months there won't be a card shop anywhere.

33 minutes ago, null; said:

Local high street doesn't have much other than turkish barbers (lots of) and charity shops along with take aways.

Local town shopping centre has many units that have not been occupied for many years.

The Councils solution is to build some kiosks (same size as a market stall), it will be interesting to see if they work.

Do you mean "turkish barbers" in quotes?

[sarahbell]

We thought this bit of Oldham was pricey,.

(Several other bits of the building also empty - see https://www.unitypartnership.com/property/ ) 

https://www.unitypartnership.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1-Manchester-Chambers-particulars.pdf
3 year lease contracted out of the provisions of the L&TA 1954 Part 2 Guide rent, £12,500 per annum.

Service Charge There is a fee of £1,950 per annum plus VAT, this is subject to change. The service charge is in relation to the maintenance for the common parts of the building. 

The incoming tenant is to be responsible for Surveyors and Legal fees incurred during the course of the transaction.

Rateable Value is £9,400 Rateable Value x Business Rates Multiplier = Business Rates Payable £9,400 x 0.48p = £4,512 Business Rates Payable Approximately.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5414602,-2.1159059,3a,75y,322.43h,89.48t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMtco8ZT5MRBLdxOJNP1U3WEbFs5_fK27lciACR!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMtco8ZT5MRBLdxOJNP1U3WEbFs5_fK27lciACR%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya145.40622-ro-0-fo100!7i13312!8i6656


and shows foodbank in ex-pub. 
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5421182,-2.1170004,3a,15y,134.26h,92.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqW_OlVYd3wx-cds37FHZSQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
 

[invalid]

1 hour ago, spunko said:

Supermarkets could kill Clintons in one fell swoop, all they need to do is get together and decide they're going to charge max £1 for any card. Within 6 months there won't be a card shop anywhere.

Do you mean "turkish barbers" in quotes?

Well, they don't seem to have many customers....

[gibbon]

3 hours ago, null; said:

Local high street doesn't have much other than turkish barbers (lots of) and charity shops along with take aways.

Local town shopping centre has many units that have not been occupied for many years.

The Councils solution is to build some kiosks (same size as a market stall), it will be interesting to see if they work.

I found out what all these random shops which have been springing up all over the place which only sell few long life items such as toilet rolls, washing powder and all ran by Turks. The long shelf life crap is just a cover for them to sell cheap knock off baccy behind the counter. Why the fuck isn't HMRC all over these places?

Saw the Police and HMRC recently raid the local Turkish barbers funnily enough, what's the most likely reason for that?

[darkmarket]

Good article about local government speculation on commercial property in Friday's FT. They say that:

• in the year to March 2018, councils spent £4bn (+43% YoY) on land and buildings, of which £1.8bn was speculation
• total borrowing for 2017/18 was £10bn, up >100% over four years
• top 3 commercial property spenders were Spelthorne Borough Council at £270m, Warrington at £220m and Eastleigh at £194m
• between 2013 and 2017, councils speculated £2.3bn on office property and £1.5bn on retail property

The rotten floor under those £250k rents is going to hurt taxpayers for a long, long time.

[dgul]

48 minutes ago, darkmarket said:

Good article about local government speculation on commercial property in Friday's FT. They say that:

• in the year to March 2018, councils spent £4bn (+43% YoY) on land and buildings, of which £1.8bn was speculation
• total borrowing for 2017/18 was £10bn, up >100% over four years
• top 3 commercial property spenders were Spelthorne Borough Council at £270m, Warrington at £220m and Eastleigh at £194m
• between 2013 and 2017, councils speculated £2.3bn on office property and £1.5bn on retail property

The rotten floor under those £250k rents is going to hurt taxpayers for a long, long time.

Can't someone somewhere please make local councils stop speculating with my cash and get back to old-fashioned service provision.

[Chewing Grass]

54 minutes ago, dgul said:

Warrington at £220m

That was Birchwood Park £211M in one pop with a yield of 2.5% i.e. £5M/year if all goes swimmingly. The other was Eddie Stobarts distribution depot at £26M with greenbelt planning permission strapped to it to double its size.

The numbers are appalling considering how 'rosy' things are at the moment.

'It has completed a £26.1 million deal to buy Eddie Stobart's headquarters at Stretton Green Distribution Park from Ropemaker Properties. It follows the authority's deals to buy Birchwood Park for £211 million from Oaktree Capital Management, as well as Matalan, DW Sports and Pure Gym in the town centre.'

The yield on Stobarts depot is £1.2M in rent.

Apparently it is the Councils business 'strategy' to buy commercial properties in an attempt to offset the impact of cuts in Government funding.

The most of the rest of the town is turning into a chavvy shit-tip rammed with new-builds filled with ex-pat help-to-buy Liverpudlians.

Trouble is they 'the council' genuinely think they are business big-shots whilst the big-shots who sold them the stuff knew when the game was up and recognised the council as a completely mug punter (unless they were put up to it by central government).

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/outcry-warrington-council-spends-261m-15291400

 

[dgul]

7 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

That was Birchwood Park £211M in one pop with a yield of 2.5% i.e. £5M/year if all goes swimmingly. The other was Eddie Stobarts distribution depot at £26M with greenbelt planning permission strapped to it to double its size.

The numbers are appalling considering how 'rosy' things are at the moment.

'It has completed a £26.1 million deal to buy Eddie Stobart's headquarters at Stretton Green Distribution Park from Ropemaker Properties. It follows the authority's deals to buy Birchwood Park for £211 million from Oaktree Capital Management, as well as Matalan, DW Sports and Pure Gym in the town centre.'

The yield on Stobarts depot is £1.2M in rent.

Apparently it is the Councils business 'strategy' to buy commercial properties in an attempt to offset the impact of cuts in Government funding.

The most of the rest of the town is turning into a chavvy shit-tip rammed with new-builds filled with ex-pat help-to-buy Liverpudlians.

Trouble is they 'the council' genuinely think they are business big-shots whilst the big-shots who sold them the stuff knew when the game was up and recognised the council as a completely mug punter (unless they were put up to it by central government).

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/outcry-warrington-council-spends-261m-15291400

 

As always, if you have to ask 'who's the mug here', then it's probably you.

[darkmarket]

2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

That was Birchwood Park £211M in one pop with a yield of 2.5% i.e. £5M/year if all goes swimmingly.

Feels like the hyperinflation thread.

[spunko]

6 hours ago, darkmarket said:

Good article about local government speculation on commercial property in Friday's FT. They say that:

• in the year to March 2018, councils spent £4bn (+43% YoY) on land and buildings, of which £1.8bn was speculation
• total borrowing for 2017/18 was £10bn, up >100% over four years
• top 3 commercial property spenders were Spelthorne Borough Council at £270m, Warrington at £220m and Eastleigh at £194m
• between 2013 and 2017, councils speculated £2.3bn on office property and £1.5bn on retail property

The rotten floor under those £250k rents is going to hurt taxpayers for a long, long time.

When that all goes pop, potholes are never going to  be fixed again, rubbish won't be collected and so on. Has a local council ever gone bankrupt out of interest?

[Thorn]

Once drove through Liverpool during the Derek Hatton/crowd bin strike. 

Sweet Jesus.

[King Penda]

On 15/10/2018 at 17:01, gibbon said:

I found out what all these random shops which have been springing up all over the place which only sell few long life items such as toilet rolls, washing powder and all ran by Turks. The long shelf life crap is just a cover for them to sell cheap knock off baccy behind the counter. Why the fuck isn't HMRC all over these places?

Saw the Police and HMRC recently raid the local Turkish barbers funnily enough, what's the most likely reason for that?

its kurds around here,loads of them.the raids do nothing.after the supermarkets the only busy shops are theres.bet they are all on benis to boot.im off to get some 3 quid regal for a friend in a minnute ironicly

[darkmarket]

9 hours ago, spunko said:

Has a local council ever gone bankrupt out of interest?

Northamptonshire is the only one I'm aware of so far, and even it's only effectively bankrupt, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[SNACR]

As if by magic

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/sainsburys-superstore-bought-cheltenham-borough-2136926

Used to be that councils would end up having to buy failing shopping centres in a recession when the LLs went bust. Would usually have to offer some cheap business rates arrangement to offload to a private investor and often turn a blind-eye to potential H&S and fire safety issues lest they end up with it back on the books.

They have always invested in commercial property particularly retail and little estates of small industrial units and not always on their own patch. Issue it that if say the Sainsburys in the above link didn't renew the lease prior to owning it a private landlord would potentially be on the hook for the void business rates - in reality a lot with the size and know how evade this by having the ownership wrapped up in an offshore trust - with the council as the landlord it essentially leaves their council tax payers picking up a tab a private landlord would have prevously had to. 

 

[darkmarket]

2 hours ago, SNACR said:

As if by magic

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/sainsburys-superstore-bought-cheltenham-borough-2136926

Used to be that councils would end up having to buy failing shopping centres in a recession when the LLs went bust. Would usually have to offer some cheap business rates arrangement to offload to a private investor and often turn a blind-eye to potential H&S and fire safety issues lest they end up with it back on the books.

They have always invested in commercial property particularly retail and little estates of small industrial units and not always on their own patch. Issue it that if say the Sainsburys in the above link didn't renew the lease prior to owning it a private landlord would potentially be on the hook for the void business rates - in reality a lot with the size and know how evade this by having the ownership wrapped up in an offshore trust - with the council as the landlord it essentially leaves their council tax payers picking up a tab a private landlord would have prevously had to. 

I'm speechless at that Cheltenham deal, they'd be more prudent to take whatever they have to Vegas for the weekend.

[eight]

43 minutes ago, darkmarket said:

I'm speechless at that Cheltenham deal, they'd be more prudent to take whatever they have to Vegas for the weekend.

They're probably doing that as well.

[darkmarket]

1 minute ago, eight said:

They're probably doing that as well.

That'll be the diversification then.

[sancho panza]

46 minutes ago, darkmarket said:

I'm speechless at that Cheltenham deal, they'd be more prudent to take whatever they have to Vegas for the weekend.

Quite.

Leicester council have been keen buyers of empty retail space such as the old central post office.Regardless of the fact that there's already loads of empty retail space already.

I had my Dad over for the weekend and we went into Leicester and he couldn't believe how the professional classes have abandoned the city alongside the knitting industry.

We now have pound shops that are struggling where huge retail operations used to prosper.

Council is oblivious to economic reality

[sancho panza]

On 21/10/2018 at 19:02, Chewing Grass said:

That was Birchwood Park £211M in one pop with a yield of 2.5% i.e. £5M/year if all goes swimmingly. The other was Eddie Stobarts distribution depot at £26M with greenbelt planning permission strapped to it to double its size.

The numbers are appalling considering how 'rosy' things are at the moment.

'It has completed a £26.1 million deal to buy Eddie Stobart's headquarters at Stretton Green Distribution Park from Ropemaker Properties. It follows the authority's deals to buy Birchwood Park for £211 million from Oaktree Capital Management, as well as Matalan, DW Sports and Pure Gym in the town centre.'

The yield on Stobarts depot is £1.2M in rent.

Apparently it is the Councils business 'strategy' to buy commercial properties in an attempt to offset the impact of cuts in Government funding.

The most of the rest of the town is turning into a chavvy shit-tip rammed with new-builds filled with ex-pat help-to-buy Liverpudlians.

Trouble is they 'the council' genuinely think they are business big-shots whilst the big-shots who sold them the stuff knew when the game was up and recognised the council as a completely mug punter (unless they were put up to it by central government).

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/outcry-warrington-council-spends-261m-15291400

 

1) It's absolutely incredible.Coventry council bought a substantial listed hotel for £11mn that would supposedly bring a 10% return annually.Surprisingly,the businessman who'd owned it before sold it because it was a real winner and he wanted the taxpayer to have all the profits.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/17/councils-commercial-property-spend-council-housing-housebuilding

Councils are on course to spend more than £1bn on commercial property this year, investing more in shopping centres, country clubs, hotels, offices and other assets than in building council houses, figures show.

Town halls in England and Wales spent £758m buying up commercial property in the first eight months of this year, according to property market data from Savills, but are only building 1,730 council houses a year, government figures for 2016-17 show.

Coventry city council decided last month to buy Coombe Abbey hotel in a multimillion-pound deal, prompting protests from locals that it was doing so while making wider cuts. The local authority has no council housing despite rising homelessness, with more than 600 households in priority need. The council believes it can earn a 10% annual return on the investment. '

 

2) Frightening that they're buying up CRE while listed CRE companies are getting burned

 

What on earth could go wrong? Getting the profits to pay for social care?

[sleepwello'nights]

You never know when the local authorities have enough commercial and retail property they might turn their attention to residential property.

Isn't the provision of residential property by local authorities a purpose some posters think should be one of their main functions. 

[darkmarket]

6 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Leicester council have been keen buyers of empty retail space such as the old central post office.Regardless of the fact that there's already loads of empty retail space already.

I had my Dad over for the weekend and we went into Leicester and he couldn't believe how the professional classes have abandoned the city alongside the knitting industry.

We now have pound shops that are struggling where huge retail operations used to prosper.

Council is oblivious to economic reality

Local government types didn't all come up with this themselves either, it's obvious there's someone helping them along. I suspect at that level there's less obliviousness.

The professional classes are indeed sat at home, as are teenagers and pensioners. The Sunday Times did a piece on Oxford Street's plans to become a kind of entertainment and leisure resort similar to the re-purposing of Chinese malls recently but proposed as a tourist destination. They've given up on the local population for demand, so it seems less charming cities will end up with much less than nothing.