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One percent

Proof that immigrants are not all engineers; we won’t let them in. 😂

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44113324

now I don’t believe this, but the key bits:

More than 1,600 IT specialists and engineers offered jobs in the UK were denied visas between December and March, BBC News has learned. 

They were denied because the number applying exceeded the monthly limit allowed to enter the UK.

Critics argue that the immigration policy will hamper the government's efforts to develop a high-tech economy.

The government said it was important that employers look to recruit from the UK before looking overseas.

The figures were obtained by the Campaign for Science and Engineering (Case).

Case's executive director, Dr Sarah Main, said that job offers in areas where there were clear shortages, such as science and engineering, should be exempt from the Home Office cap.

"The tragedy is that this policy doesn't work for anyone: the government, employers or the public," she said.

"The government repeats its mantra that Britain should be open to the brightest and the best, and yet this policy specifically rejects those people."

Between December 2017 and March 2018, the Home Office received an unexpectedly high volume of applications from employers who had offered jobs to non-EU workers.

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1 minute ago, Wahoo said:

This boils my piss.

So the gates are open for benefit bouncers and their 3 wives who have no intention to work, but closed for skilled workers with a job ready.

What a bunch of morons in control. They fuck-up everything they go near.  IR35 has created massive shortages of skilled workers in the Public Sector and HMRC won't admit how much extra revenue they're clawing in.....so we can assume it's probably nothing.

http://www.onrec.com/news/news-archive/thousands-of-workers-are-suffering-incorrect-tax-thanks-to-ir35

 

What the hell is the public sector doing employing self employed bods

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12 minutes ago, One percent said:

What the hell is the public sector doing employing self employed bods

I would hope that they're reducing the black hole in the pensions...

 

...but I doubt it

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15 minutes ago, One percent said:

What the hell is the public sector doing employing self employed bods

Short term requirement for skills that are not already in the department. Pay someone for a year rather than on the books for a lifetime. Should only be for non core activities and should probably be the preferred option for non core activities.

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I am not surprised that there are claims of shortages of people with specific skills. There are also claims that there are not enough people to do low skilled jobs either.

The question has to be asked why if over 50% of school leavers are going into higher education and have done so for the last, what 10 years or so, do we not have people with the education, training and experience to do those jobs.

There are certainly enough reports about "university" graduates unable to find employment.

From my own experience employment agencies and HR departments seem to delight in keeping the gates shut to prevent people getting jobs. They have their check lists and if all the boxes are not ticked then you wont be considered.  I've been employed on temporary contracts in the past and seen the total clusterfucks that those who have passed professional exams make of the straightforward accounting processes needed to ensure accurate and correct financial reporting and financial management of companies. It ain't rocket science but it very well could be as so many make it so difficult. 

The trend now seems to be to find someone who fits into the team in respect of team bonding on social occasions. The ability to do the job being of distant importance.  I'm staggered by the workplace environments that I hear about, break out rooms and the like. It may be great fun but when does the work get done?

Disclaimer: I'm an old grump

 

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13 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I am not surprised that there are claims of shortages of people with specific skills. There are also claims that there are not enough people to do low skilled jobs either.

The question has to be asked why if over 50% of school leavers are going into higher education and have done so for the last, what 10 years or so, do we not have people with the education, training and experience to do those jobs.

There are certainly enough reports about "university" graduates unable to find employment.

 


This is my concern. We have graduates slaving making coffee...

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13 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I am not surprised that there are claims of shortages of people with specific skills. There are also claims that there are not enough people to do low skilled jobs either.

The question has to be asked why if over 50% of school leavers are going into higher education and have done so for the last, what 10 years or so, do we not have people with the education, training and experience to do those jobs.

There are certainly enough reports about "university" graduates unable to find employment.

From my own experience employment agencies and HR departments seem to delight in keeping the gates shut to prevent people getting jobs. They have their check lists and if all the boxes are not ticked then you wont be considered.  I've been employed on temporary contracts in the past and seen the total clusterfucks that those who have passed professional exams make of the straightforward accounting processes needed to ensure accurate and correct financial reporting and financial management of companies. It ain't rocket science but it very well could be as so many make it so difficult. 

The trend now seems to be to find someone who fits into the team in respect of team bonding on social occasions. The ability to do the job being of distant importance.  I'm staggered by the workplace environments that I hear about, break out rooms and the like. It may be great fun but when does the work get done?

Disclaimer: I'm an old grump

 

Is the right question

we have turned vocational occupations into a dirty word and hollowed out what was once high quality vocational education and training 

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This isn't about IT/engineering.  This is about the NHS.  They're the biggest user of the tier 2 visa system in the UK

This annoys me.  Some things can't be predicted.  Perhaps the UK's <specialist engineering field> needs are in excess of what we've trained for over the years.  Maybe we do need skills in highly specialist fields where there just aren't many trained around the world to choose from.  But we should absolutely definitely be able to understand our needs for healthcare over a medium to long term and plan accordingly.

But no, our approach is to not bother with training in these easy to identify areas, and instead steal healthcare staff from around the world (leading to all sorts of problems around the world).  This then takes up all the visa numbers.

So, if you're actually in a field where there isn't any local resource and where it has been impossible to predict future needs, tough.  Because even though the government couldn't be bothered to do the hard work, it got there first.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wahoo said:

This boils my piss.

So the gates are open for benefit bouncers and their 3 wives who have no intention to work, but closed for skilled workers with a job ready.

What a bunch of morons in control. They fuck-up everything they go near.  IR35 has created massive shortages of skilled workers in the Public Sector and HMRC won't admit how much extra revenue they're clawing in.....so we can assume it's probably nothing.

http://www.onrec.com/news/news-archive/thousands-of-workers-are-suffering-incorrect-tax-thanks-to-ir35

 

We have enough IT people, the "shortage" is of IT people willing to work for fuck all. I mean seriously, why do we need to import IT skills, it not like there is some special trick to training people, just give them a computer an internet connection and some motivate you know like a well paid job at the end of it.

Edited by goldbug9999

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1 minute ago, goldbug9999 said:

We have enough IT people, the "shortage" is of IT people willing to work for fuck all.

Exactly.

You'd think they'd have learned after seeing what a fuck up outsourcing ended up being, but obviously not.

As it is, I don't know why on earth anyone would work in IT in London, where the wages don't seem to reflect the cost of living at all.

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2 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

As it is, I don't know why on earth anyone would work in IT in London, where the wages don't seem to reflect the cost of living at all.

Contract rates are good though, but yeah otherwise its probably not worth it.

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56 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

I would like to know which areas the shortages are in and what training and experience would be required to fill those gaps. My job is quite physically demanding and I'll be struggling to do it in ten years time and unlikely to be able to do it in twenty. I'll work self employed or go on the books for a reasonable deal, am a graduate with 20 years experience of running a small business and can pay for genuinely relevant training or work for crap money whilst learning a job. We hear plenty about skills shortages, but there seems to be fuck all effort to address the alleged problem in a sustainable way, suspect there is a lot of truth in Joe's comment.

I remember calling out some wanker on HPC who was always whinging about not being able to recruit staff - IIRC I offered to start the next day, wherever in the UK he was based. Amazingly my offer was not taken up.....

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2 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

That's all very well, but do you want a wealthy foreign elite to form in this country? Traditionally the upper echelons of society had cultural and genetic ties to the people over whom they ruled. When foreign elites take over a country the results are not always positive. 

 

The "elites" are not salaried people they are those who own important stuff: big companies, banks, real estate etc. I earn well north of 100k and I'm still fucking scum because I rent, haven't had my invitation to bilderburg in the post yet either.

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8 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

That's all very well, but do you want a wealthy foreign elite to form in this country? Traditionally the upper echelons of society had cultural and genetic ties to the people over whom they ruled. When foreign elites take over a country the results are not always positive. 

 

Trust me, if the UK puts in high earning limits, there's no risk of a foreign elite entering the UK.

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1 minute ago, eight said:

I remember calling out some wanker on HPC who was always whinging about not being able to recruit staff - IIRC I offered to start the next day, wherever in the UK he was based. Amazingly my offer was not taken up.....

IMO there should never be any need to import skills unless it really is some rare specialism that requires an IQ like 3 or 4 standard deviations above normal i.e. literally one in a million or so. A closed system is the optimal one - scarcity pushes wages up, the high wages attract more of our people into the field. Those highly paid people have money to spend to fund other high paying jobs. There is lower welfare spend because employment rates rise. Even employers dont lose out because they are all in the same boat, they also have a highly paid potential market for goods and services.You take the long term view and build a sustainable high skill high wage economy.

But no our betters would rather engage in the race the bottom.

 

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4 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

IMO there should never be any need to import skills unless it really is some rare specialism that requires an IQ like 3 or 4 standard deviations above normal i.e. literally one in a million or so. A closed system is the optimal one - scarcity pushes wages up, the high wages attract more of our people into the field. Those highly paid people have money to spend to fund other high paying jobs. There is lower welfare spend because employment rates rise. Even employers dont lose out because they are all in the same boat, they also have a highly paid potential market for goods and services.You take the long term view and build a sustainable high skill high wage economy.

But no our betters would rather engage in the race the bottom.

 

It's a shame I can't remember the name of the poster in question, but he was just an almighty racist with some kind of bee in his bonnet about the British work ethic - all his posts were along the lines of, I would love to employ more Brits, but they won't have it etc. etc. ad nauseum.

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4 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

IMO there should never be any need to import skills unless it really is some rare specialism that requires an IQ like 3 or 4 standard deviations above normal i.e. literally one in a million or so. A closed system is the optimal one - scarcity pushes wages up, the high wages attract more of our people into the field. Those highly paid people have money to spend to fund other high paying jobs. There is lower welfare spend because employment rates rise. Even employers dont lose out because they are all in the same boat, they also have a highly paid potential market for goods and services.You take the long term view and build a sustainable high skill high wage economy.

But no our betters would rather engage in the race the bottom.

Well, yes, but there's a delay between the need arising and new people getting trained and entering the field.

I'd say better to include this in applications for visa -- have a part saying 'what are you doing to improve native participation in this field' along with a timescale for the change to arise.

  • So, for a small engineering company it might be 'we're paying them stacks and that'll encourage locals into the field'
  • For a large engineering company it might be 'we've got an established apprenticeship scheme / graduate sponsorship'
  • For a massive organisation (like the NHS) it might be 'this is our national 10 year plan agreed with government to remove the problem of insufficient local skills'

But they just ignore that part of the problem.  Indeed, even to recognise it as a problem is deemed racist in some way.

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48 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

We have enough IT people, the "shortage" is of IT people willing to work for fuck all. 

This is what it comes down to.

It's not just IT either. I think many companies have become spoilt with a flooded labour market of people willing to work for fuck all. 

I remember going for graduate jobs back in the day and turning offers down left, right and centre. Not because of some over-inflated sense of entitlement, but simply because the salary wouldn't have covered the rent of a hovel within a hundred square miles, let alone given me a pot to piss in.

This sort of shit is the exact reason I went self employed.

3 hours ago, One percent said:

They were denied because the number applying exceeded the monthly limit allowed to enter the UK.

And what, pray, is the issue with this? Why is this being punted as a sob story?

There's no sense in flooding a market with cheap labour! That's why we have limits! Jesus Christ, how difficult is it for even the most simple-minded of zombiefied BBC hippies to understand this? If you have a market with a minimum wage and you open that market to a labour pool of millions from countries who's minimum wage is half of our own...if it even exists at all, then what the fuck do they think is going to happen!?

Jesus Christ.

:PissedOff:

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