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Cosmic Apple

Fecking eBay! Now 'Below Standard' for defects on collect only items

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Posted (edited)

I sell a fair few bits through eBay, some of which are COLLECT ONLY due to size/weight/fragility. If your buyer collects an item, then PayPal is a no-no - you'll not be covered by Paypals seller protection and the buyer can get the money back as you have no tracking information. However, you CAN'T NOT ACCEPT Paypal payments, even on collect only items. 

So illiterate buyer buys collect only item, ignores the 'CASH ON COLLECTION ONLY' and pays Paypal. I refund the buyer via Paypal and say 'bring cash'.

However, I now have 5 defects on my account, 2 of which the buyer has collected after receiving their Paypal refund and paid cash (and have been marked as paid/dispatched), 1 where the buyer bought a collect only item, paid Paypal, then after being refunded never bothered collecting (actually I've had a few of these - suspect scams...- but never before has it ended in a defect) and I'm now 'BELOW STANDARD'. 

I can imagine this will dent my sales significantly! I'm winding down my hobby so have around £5k of stuff to sell... I expect this is going to take a long time :(

Anyone successfully fought similar with eBay? Which path did you take?

Unfortunately I'm slightly hampered by the fact the account isn't in my name after I got banned - for 'selling out side of eBay' - despite the fact the incident that got me banned never actually resulted in a sale, the guy viewed the item, didn't want it, when the item timer ran out their system reviewed the messages and as we'd exchange contact details decided I had sold it! 3rd strike, you're out, banned no appeals! A bit hard to pretend I'm a different sex on the phone :(

Edited by Cosmic Apple

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When Microsoft brought out the new xbox a few years back they usually were sold in a bundle with some latest game - the game was downloadable and you got a code in the box to activate your game. Your licence.

Lots of gamers who did not fancy the game that was bundled would go onto ebay to sell the codes. I lost count of the posts I saw on hotukdeals where people had sold the code to someone via paypal, emailed them the code and then the buyer complained to paypal saying that they had not been sent the code. Apparently paypal were constantly siding with the buyer.

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I've tried and failed to be honest.

Most of my transactions are shipped, Gumtree would seriously limit that. I've sold parts to Aus and the US before through ebay :(

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Just now, The Masked Tulip said:

When Microsoft brought out the new xbox a few years back they usually were sold in a bundle with some latest game - the game was downloadable and you got a code in the box to activate your game. Your licence.

Lots of gamers who did not fancy the game that was bundled would go onto ebay to sell the codes. I lost count of the posts I saw on hotukdeals where people had sold the code to someone via paypal, emailed them the code and then the buyer complained to paypal saying that they had not been sent the code. Apparently paypal were constantly siding with the buyer.

Oh its rife! Bloody ridiculous that you can't NOT accept Paypal! 

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1 minute ago, ashestoashes said:

I'm raising a defect for this thread, nothing about bellows at all

What you on about pal? Need some glasses? I've got some for sale on eBay :P

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Ah ha... they've been fiddling!

image.png.f10489120181e44a7f358072b31ff94d.png

Thing is without the 2 that were successful, and the 1 that the buyer never wanted... I'd have 2 which 'expire' in July and I'd be back to Above Standard :( As it is I'll creep back to Standard in July, treading on eggshells for another 10months!

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Obviously it would be selling outside of Ebay but why not note what is the particular hobby that you are winding down?

There may be someone on here who is just getting into it and you can deal with them via PM; I'm not suggesting that this morphs into a classifieds site.  And nobody may be interested.  But you never know.

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5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Obviously it would be selling outside of Ebay but why not note what is the particular hobby that you are winding down?

As long as the 'lead' doesn't come from eBay you can do that! Its mostly bits of my former tow car left, and some bits of my former track/project cars. Very specific and I doubt I'd sell anything through here. 

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2 minutes ago, Cosmic Apple said:

As long as the 'lead' doesn't come from eBay you can do that! Its mostly bits of my former tow car left, and some bits of my former track/project cars. Very specific and I doubt I'd sell anything through here. 

Possibly @SNACR

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It is running on percentages and those percentages are affecting your overall percentage scores, correct?  Let's say a bad score will dent credibility and result in 20% loss of potential income from remaining sales. In this situation well worthwhile( if assumption above is correct) to spend just a little time cleansing the figures. Find something small, popular, cheap to pop in envelope ideally that does damage easily but with not too many outlets said item on ebay too cheaply, preferably something that people want quick delivery and small qty  too. Then find a cheap bulk purchase of equivalent, purchase and sell un undercutting all other sellers and pre-pack the bulk as singles to save time and collect 10's/100's of easy transactions to mask the bad ones, put a note requesting feedback with each one too.  Most buyers are not expecting perfect feedback, anything above 98% for me is a clear pass.

 

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Posted (edited)

Your mistake is using the out of stock reason for cancelling orders. Why did you do that and what was the reason for the cancellations? Were you trying to avoid paying fees after the transaction had gone through?

Edited by Battenberg

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Are eBay and PayPal "worth bothering with"?

I ask this since we provide e-commerce software (website, backend admin system) and it used to integrate with eBay until they pulled that particular mechanism. We checked with clients. Nobody was using it. So we didn't bother updating it. A few clients do sell end-of-line stuff on eBay but not their whole product range. So TBH it's not much more work to just copy and paste stuff in for those few lines.

PayPal - it can take that (Standard and Pro if memory serves, names might have changed now) and yet over the course of the last year merchants have been pulling that, too. Just a one-click setting to disable that payment option. In one case PayPal pulled the customer's "Pro" account and they had to reconfigure it back to the old-fashioned mechanism as their sales went to pot immediately. They're now looking at getting their own PSP - perhaps rather belatedly, and moving away from PayPal.

Main reasons - buyer disputes and extortionate charges. Just isn't worth bothering with. Exacerbated by having to go into Settings in our kit and set "PayPal Transaction Fee" to 0 when the legislation changed. Costs were just too high to continue with it. Prior to that the checkout would show a different price next to the PayPal button as it would include the retailer's fee to offset the PayPal fee.

Now those are all, IIRC, retailers who have had their own websites for some time, they have their own PSP (SagePay and WorldPay are popular) with which the software integrates. Another has a bespoke build and has never shown any interest at all in either.

For my part, I came close to suing PayPal once when they withheld money and wouldn't go near them again. I have Italian lessons and the PayPal system is handy for the tutor to request money via a "Money Request". I fill in the details and pay that way. Except that has had a bug in it for months now and so it will only work once per recipient email address *. He has to send to a different email alias each time so I can pay him. Or PayPal's checkout breaks and tells me to contact Customer Services which is a fruitless endeavour. PayPal's staff don't even know how their own product works.

So our retailers all have their own sites, and all use their own PSPs. Minimal transaction costs, complete accountability. I wondered if this was "a bit old-fashioned". And yet, while I see the benefits of PayPal and eBay, they have their place, I'd hate to run a business that relies on them.

What do you get from these?

* The bug is that once you click "Pay Now" to an invoice request, and pay it, that "paying" email address is saved in their database in preparation for a PayPal account. I then click "No, thanks" to that. Next time, this causes a key violation in their database and makes their checkout break. So the email address has to be different every time. I would notify them using their online forum but you have to be a PayPal member to use that. And their telephone staff barely speak English. So I can't be bothered to pursue it.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Battenberg said:

Your mistake is using the out of stock reason for cancelling orders. Why did you do that and what was the reason for the cancellations? Were you trying to avoid paying fees after the transaction had gone through?

I don't! These are NOT canceled orders - I have 2 that are as I was out of stock, I'll hold my hands up to that - but these were NOT canceled in 2 out of 3 of the remaining cases (one was as the buyer told me he didn't want it - and I used 'buyer requested cancellation'. The others are marked as paid and dispatched, I have paid fees for them. I even have bloody feedback for them. The issue is that eBay sees the Paypal refund and just flags that I've canceled the item due to stock...

I only list on £1 max offers, so I pay the fees even on items where I didn't actually sell it (say buyer turns up but doesn't want it for whatever reason). 

10 hours ago, onlyme said:

It is running on percentages and those percentages are affecting your overall percentage scores, correct?  Let's say a bad score will dent credibility and result in 20% loss of potential income from remaining sales. In this situation well worthwhile( if assumption above is correct) to spend just a little time cleansing the figures. Find something small, popular, cheap to pop in envelope ideally that does damage easily but with not too many outlets said item on ebay too cheaply, preferably something that people want quick delivery and small qty  too. Then find a cheap bulk purchase of equivalent, purchase and sell un undercutting all other sellers and pre-pack the bulk as singles to save time and collect 10's/100's of easy transactions to mask the bad ones, put a note requesting feedback with each one too.  Most buyers are not expecting perfect feedback, anything above 98% for me is a clear pass.

 

Been reading the same blog as me last night where the guy sold 100s of small items at a loss? Too much effort I think.

I'm firstly going to try and get them to remove these 'defects', as they are not. I have buyers who could testify that the transaction was good and I've paid fees for them, I'm not trying to avoid anything as Battenberg suggested.

Secondly I'm just going to see how much it affects sales, if I still sell stuff I'll just ignore it. Stupid thing is I can't remove PayPal payments from my auctions, so it can happen again and I'll get another strike because a buyer uses Paypal for a collect item despite my numerous notices about it.

Thirdly I'll use my brothers account or create a new one. It didn't take me long when I got banned to get back up to speed.

I have 99% feedback and 4.9*s across all categories. This isn't a user feedback issue, its eBay seeing Paypal refunds and assuming... despite other evidence to the contrary.

 

Logged in this morning to see my predicted level is now 'Above Standard', the 3 transactions have been removed (now just the 2 that I did cancel for being out of stock when I had a busy period and ended up relisting stuff I sold):

 

image.thumb.png.c7772e47fb9436f79225c5ab41f9a733.png

 

I emailed them last night - no response but it seems to have worked!

Edited by Cosmic Apple

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6 hours ago, DTMark said:

Are eBay and PayPal "worth bothering with"?

For a private seller, selling random stuff, no other platform comes close. I only list on £1 days, I used to list normally have paid £100+ bills in a month + Paypal fees. 

I've had no response from Gumtree adds and Facebook is chock full of wankers. You get idiots on eBay too but you just block them if they ask stupid questions - I don't need the hassle of selling to them.

I'd definitely not want to depend on either for my business!

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Had my own recent run ins with Ebay and Paypal, thankfully it's not damaged my account but it has left me out of pocket. 

It's a difficult one because it is rather easy to sell on there, however I'm now favouring a more direct approach and selling stuff via more specific sites. One thing that's really buggered up the site is this automatic inclusion in the global shipping program, in fairness it is straight forward but it cancels out the ability to go round and knock on a door when somebody wants to play silly buggers. 

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4 minutes ago, gilf said:

Had my own recent run ins with Ebay and Paypal, thankfully it's not damaged my account but it has left me out of pocket. 

It's a difficult one because it is rather easy to sell on there, however I'm now favouring a more direct approach and selling stuff via more specific sites. One thing that's really buggered up the site is this automatic inclusion in the global shipping program, in fairness it is straight forward but it cancels out the ability to go round and knock on a door when somebody wants to play silly buggers. 

The only time I've lost items in transit is via GSP. Fecking useless! And of course its easier for buyers to get free stuff as you don't want to pay the return postage from Timbuktu if they claim its broken, so you just refund them before eBay make you refund them!

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I no longer sell anything on ebay, too many charges, rules and red tape, nd that's without the scammed looking to get something for nothing!

I use preloved,  shock and local fb groups much easier and no charge.

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13 minutes ago, Cosmic Apple said:

Oh my god... another one, collect only, paid by Paypal!

Is this English? 

 

Maybe it has dawned on people that should HMRC have cause to check their bank accounts they'll show a source of undeclared income.

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