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Old folks and busses

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One for @spygirl

Britain's 'most scenic' bus route revealed

Quote

The 840 runs four times a day, is completely commercial and run by Transdev. But it relies on subsidies in winter time and reimbursement by the local authority for the many users with a bus pass.

Les and Janet use it to get to their caravan in Thornton-le-Dale: "We've been using it for a long time, all on our bus pass. If we did not have the bus we would not get out because fuel is so dear."

Kate has epilepsy so cannot drive: "It's important for me to get to places I've been visiting all my life - I would not be able to get to the outdoors, which I love very much."

You what?

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Posted (edited)

According to the Grauniad the majority of the transport subsidies get spent on London which has the youngest population age profile not pensioners in Yorkshire

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/16/trains-too-expensive-transport-problem-subsidies-london

Hard as it is to believe given the shambles that is GTR most of it goes on commuter rail travel in the SE not on buses

Edited by Virgil Caine

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2 minutes ago, eight said:

I dont think the X93 will be far behind.

So, the CoastLiner won.

I like the line:

'"Rural communities do need bus services and they are a lifeline for many people. So I felt they deserved a little publicity to attract new passengers." '

Well why the fuck do they give people from outside a bus pass to ride on the fucking bus?

The only bus I tend to use are the x93 and.or coastliner - to get back when Im off the train at York.

Ive gone on the coastliner and Id guess theres one fare paying passnger - Me.

You can hardly make the case that its used for 'nipping down the shops or Drs' Its a fucking 6hour round trip FFS.

The worst is the X93. Here you get OAPs staying in Scarborough - with cars - and taking the bus to Whitby as 'its so hard too park'

If youre stuck behind it, you see the bus go by the poor low wage fucking locals, who the bus service is meant to be for, whhlst the bus is full of richer OAPs. Cunts.

Again, gormless Browns cunting ideas.

'I know! Ill get OAP votes by giving a free bus pass'

Then he doesnt fund it, letting the cost fall on the LAs who have to take money from the local bus sub - late night busses, to pay for a load of rich outsiders to use the bus for free.

 

 

Just now, Virgil Caine said:

According to the Grauniad nost of the transport subsidies get spent on London which has the youngest population age profile not pensioners in Yorkshire

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/16/trains-too-expensive-transport-problem-subsidies-london

Wooh there.

London gets the most sub as theres the most popluation and 80% of train journeys start or end in London.

London trasnport give a freedom pass or whatnot, that allows OAPs to travel on the tube and busses for free.

That would cost someone ~8k/y.

The transport sub in London goes on OAPs and non tax paying migrant kids.

 

 

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Just now, spygirl said:

Then he doesnt fund it, letting the cost fall on the LAs who have to take money from the local bus sub - late night busses, to pay for a load of rich outsiders to use the bus for free.

It doesn't need funding. It says so in the article, it's completely commercial.*

*With a few minor exceptions such as winter time and any passengers with a bus pass.

 

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9 minutes ago, eight said:

Yes, completely commercial. Stop nitpicking.

Tbh a free bus pass is something I am really looking forward to; one of the good things about getting old.  So I hope it stays in place on this "completely commercial" basis.

My parents have a bus stop over the road and, whilst the service isn't that frequent, they often take it for day trips to nearby towns as it's pretty much door to door.

It's so much more relaxed than driving; just useless if you try to use it to get to work.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Yes, completely commercial. Stop nitpicking.

Tbh a free bus pass is something I am really looking forward to; one of the good things about getting old.  So I hope it stays in place on this "completely commercial" basis.

My parents have a bus stop over the road and, whilst the service isn't that frequent, they often take it for day trips to nearby towns as it's pretty much door to door.

It's so much more relaxed than driving; just useless if you try to use it to get to work.

Its not as simple as that.

'But it relies on subsidies in winter time and reimbursement by the local authority for the many users with a bus pass'

Another thing genius Brown never thought thru is which local authority the funding comes from.

Doing his 'used for going to the shops and DRs routine'; he decided that the LA where the bus terminates would fund the bus.

Now. Im actually pro free OAP bus passes for an area. Say adjacent local towns - so thats Whitby, Scabby and boro. Say a 50m mile radius for rural areas. 20 for urban.

Back to coastliner - this bus sets off in Leeds (which is urban LA, goes thru West Yorkshire, York (LA), Ryedale (adjacent LA).

Terminates in Scabby or Whitby - both SBC.

So, youve a bus where the funding comes from one of poorest LAs in England (Scabby) and fundes the freebies for the some of the richest Leeds, York and Ryedale.

And the funding comes from the travel budget, so the subbed late night services, used by the poor fuckers who work late shifts - toursim is not 9-5.

Il summarise -

rich OAP are using a bus service, funded from taxing the local poorer working age people. Who then cannot use the bus as its either full or the sub pulled, to provide free bus travel to rich OAPs who the poor fucker then has to serve food and drink to.

 

 

 

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Surely if it's where it terminates then it's half Leeds half Whitby because it's a return?

Totally agree about how rubbish tourism is for an area and how rubbish are the jobs to which it gives rise.

My petition to change the name of the tourist information organisation from visitcornwall to dontvisitcornwall has however yet to garner many signatures.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

My petition to change the name of the tourist information organisation from visitcornwall to dontvisitcornwall has however yet to garner many signatures.

You know how perverse people are, tourism would probably rocket as a result.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Surely if it's where it terminates then it's half Leeds half Whitby because it's a return?

Totally agree about how rubbish tourism is for an area and how rubbish are the jobs to which it gives rise.

My petition to change the name of the tourist information organisation from visitcornwall to dontvisitcornwall has however yet to garner many signatures.

No. Last time I look its the routers termination. Think about it - they only scan the pass when the OAP get on the bus, not when they get off.

Which makes puttignthe cost on the destination LA even more insane. But thats Brown.

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32 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

According to the Grauniad the majority of the transport subsidies get spent on London which has the youngest population age profile not pensioners in Yorkshire

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/16/trains-too-expensive-transport-problem-subsidies-london

Hard as it is to believe given the shambles that is GTR most of it goes on commuter rail travel in the SE not on buses

That's not accurate.

  • For a start TfL no longer gets any subsidies to cover opex -- there was an historical subsidy when the article was written though.
  • A large proportion of the 'subsidies' is in capex (and always was).  Sure, this 'gets spent on Londoners', but you shouldn't conflate capex and opex for this sort of expenditure.  Capex is an investment for the future, and you might hope (even though they've probably mucked it up) that it will have a positive (or at least not very negative) return to the country and/or locals over the long term. 
  • All government spending should be considered as whether it is 'investment' or 'expenditure'.  So:
    • jfor example, healthcare for the healthy of working age is nearly always investment (as they can then keep on working).  
      • Healthcare is complex, though -- if you can make healthcare for the elderly efficient through provision at a country level, then working people won't save too much to cover health costs when they're old, won't spend their time inefficiently looking after their parents, etc.  So healthcare for the elderly (children, handicapped, etc) could be regarded as an investment (but might not be if they fluff it up).
    • Similarly for education, etc.
    • Opex transport subsidies for a city might be reasonable if it allows people to get to work more efficiently.  This will be true even for wealthy people, so long as the efficiencies make it possible for them to do their work where it would be difficult without the subsidy -- if the city is gridlocked and no-one can get anywhere it is no good saying 'but they're earning £80k, they can just buy their way through the mayhem' -- in that case they wouldn't actually be able to work in the city and that income might be forgone (or reduced in impact because they're now geographically distant from their customers/clients -- this is always the argument for keeping large cities healthy).
    • Opex transport subsidies for unemployed or older people to get to the shops still makes enough sense.  Opex subsidies for old people to be able to visit their static caravan is pretty much only ever an expenditure.
33 minutes ago, spygirl said:

...

So, youve a bus where the funding comes from one of poorest LAs in England (Scabby) and fundes the freebies for the some of the richest Leeds, York and Ryedale.

And the funding comes from the travel budget, so the subbed late night services, used by the poor fuckers who work late shifts - toursim is not 9-5.

Il summarise -

rich OAP are using a bus service, funded from taxing the local poorer working age people. Who then cannot use the bus as its either full or the sub pulled, to provide free bus travel to rich OAPs who the poor fucker then has to serve food and drink to.

Yes.  This is the fundamental problem with the (pretty much unlimited) free bus pass.  They've only gone and disrupted the bus system so that it now only exists to serve the people who use it, because other people can't afford to use it because the prices go up to cover the costs of people that don't have to pay (phew).  And because the system serves its customers, the busses don't go where workers want to go when they want to go.  Bonkers.

[round here there's two busses a day to town, two back.  Busses there at 9am and 11am, back at 1pm and 3pm.  Worker?  Buy a car -- it'll be cheaper, as well]

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2 minutes ago, dgul said:

That's not accurate.

  • For a start TfL no longer gets any subsidies to cover opex -- there was an historical subsidy when the article was written though.
  • A large proportion of the 'subsidies' is in capex (and always was).  Sure, this 'gets spent on Londoners', but you shouldn't conflate capex and opex for this sort of expenditure.  Capex is an investment for the future, and you might hope (even though they've probably mucked it up) that it will have a positive (or at least not very negative) return to the country and/or locals over the long term. 
  • All government spending should be considered as whether it is 'investment' or 'expenditure'.  So:
    • jfor example, healthcare for the healthy of working age is nearly always investment (as they can then keep on working).  
      • Healthcare is complex, though -- if you can make healthcare for the elderly efficient through provision at a country level, then working people won't save too much to cover health costs when they're old, won't spend their time inefficiently looking after their parents, etc.  So healthcare for the elderly (children, handicapped, etc) could be regarded as an investment (but might not be if they fluff it up).
    • Similarly for education, etc.
    • Opex transport subsidies for a city might be reasonable if it allows people to get to work more efficiently.  This will be true even for wealthy people, so long as the efficiencies make it possible for them to do their work where it would be difficult without the subsidy -- if the city is gridlocked and no-one can get anywhere it is no good saying 'but they're earning £80k, they can just buy their way through the mayhem' -- in that case they wouldn't actually be able to work in the city and that income might be forgone (or reduced in impact because they're now geographically distant from their customers/clients -- this is always the argument for keeping large cities healthy).
    • Opex transport subsidies for unemployed or older people to get to the shops still makes enough sense.  Opex subsidies for old people to be able to visit their static caravan is pretty much only ever an expenditure.

Yes.  This is the fundamental problem with the (pretty much unlimited) free bus pass.  They've only gone and disrupted the bus system so that it now only exists to serve the people who use it, because other people can't afford to use it because the prices go up to cover the costs of people that don't have to pay (phew).  And because the system serves its customers, the busses don't go where workers want to go when they want to go.  Bonkers.

[round here there's two busses a day to town, two back.  Busses there at 9am and 11am, back at 1pm and 3pm.  Worker?  Buy a car -- it'll be cheaper, as well]

In the area Im talking about, the bus service has been disrupted/subverted from oen that existed to provide locals with a cheap means to get around the local area for work and visits, to one that exists to provide subbed travel to rich OAPs visiting  from outside.

Again, I think the bus pass for locals is a good thing - limit the range that can be used - 50m  or 20m radius.

 

 

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I wonder if the real reason OAPs  get so many perks is to try to keep them in the country.

If it wasn't for the free health service, free bus passes, free winter fuel, zero national insurance contributions why wouldn't you just take your very generous gold plated pension and bugger off to spend all your money in Spain or Malaysia?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I wonder if the real reason OAPs  get so many perks is to try to keep them in the country.

If it wasn't for the free health service, free bus passes, free winter fuel, zero national insurance contributions why wouldn't you just take your very generous gold plated pension and bugger off to spend all your money in Spain or Malaysia?

It is a moot point. The government certainly don't want the over 65s pension money spent abroad as it is effectively exported. The logic may be a bit like why Chancellors are not are keen on the idea of stopping benefit claimants blowing their money on booze and fags. In strict fiscal terms more of that money ends up back in the state hands than if the recipient used it to buy food and clothes for their kids. 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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44 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I wonder if the real reason OAPs  get so many perks is to try to keep them in the country.

If it wasn't for the free health service, free bus passes, free winter fuel, zero national insurance contributions why wouldn't you just take your very generous gold plated pension and bugger off to spend all your money in Spain or Malaysia?

I'd be plumping for: votes.

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

I wonder if the real reason OAPs  get so many perks is to try to keep them in the country.

If it wasn't for the free health service, free bus passes, free winter fuel, zero national insurance contributions why wouldn't you just take your very generous gold plated pension and bugger off to spend all your money in Spain or Malaysia?

What pisses me off is that every time I go out for lunch at a decent restaurant paid for out of taxable income is that it is full of boomers.  Loads of pubs round Leeds do half price pensioners’ lunches.  They are the generation that needs subsidising the least.  First class train travel, again, full of boomers with the hard working taxpayer rammed in to standard.

In Probate work every Estate where the deceased is over 70 is very solvent, typically in West Yorks £200k house and £100k in savings.  Where the deceased is under 66 they are skint.

The only thing I agree with my fkin sister on is what she calls “inter generational robbery”.

Btw that Friggin Coasliner bus is totally empty outside pensioners’ travel hours.  Trust me I overtake it at 5 ish every day on the  A64 eastbound from Leeds.

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2 minutes ago, Ina said:

What pisses me off is that every time I go out for lunch at a decent restaurant paid for out of taxable income is that it is full of boomers.  Loads of pubs round Leeds do half price pensioners’ lunches.  They are the generation that needs subsidising the least.  First class train travel, again, full of boomers with the hard working taxpayer rammed in to standard.

In Probate work every Estate where the deceased is over 70 is very solvent, typically in West Yorks £200k house and £100k in savings.  Where the deceased is under 66 they are skint.

The only thing I agree with my fkin sister on is what she calls “inter generational robbery”.

Btw that Friggin Coasliner bus is totally empty outside pensioners’ travel hours.  Trust me I overtake it at 5 ish every day on the  A64 eastbound from Leeds.

Yes. And I don't understand how.

I was told yesterday that my sister-in-law's parents are in Monaco for the Grand Prix. Earlier in the year they went on a two week Caribbean cruise.

That's on top of the new car and touring caravan they bought last year.

The mother spent her life working as an assistant in a care home, he worked in Tesco's warehouse.

How the feck did they get to where they are?

Oh, I remember now. Right to buy their four bed council house in Ewell.

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1 hour ago, Ina said:

What pisses me off is that every time I go out for lunch at a decent restaurant paid for out of taxable income is that it is full of boomers.  Loads of pubs round Leeds do half price pensioners’ lunches.  They are the generation that needs subsidising the least.  First class train travel, again, full of boomers with the hard working taxpayer rammed in to standard.

In Probate work every Estate where the deceased is over 70 is very solvent, typically in West Yorks £200k house and £100k in savings.  Where the deceased is under 66 they are skint.

The only thing I agree with my fkin sister on is what she calls “inter generational robbery”.

Btw that Friggin Coasliner bus is totally empty outside pensioners’ travel hours.  Trust me I overtake it at 5 ish every day on the  A64 eastbound from Leeds.

Again, my point on how tge bus service has been changed for joyruding oaps.

Theres few busses after 6pm - oaps have all fucked off for their tea.

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5 hours ago, One percent said:

Oh great. More of the feckers rocking up and cluttering the place 

Yep.

There foes seem to be a noticable uptick in park homey static caravan sites.

The stretch from hawsker to thd abbey has loads tucked away.

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10 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Yep.

There foes seem to be a noticable uptick in park homey static caravan sites.

The stretch from hawsker to thd abbey has loads tucked away.

When you say home park, do you mean permanent homes for trailer trash from Leeds or the ones that people rent for a week or two over summer?

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9 minutes ago, One percent said:

When you say home park, do you mean permanent homes for trailer trash from Leeds or the ones that people rent for a week or two over summer?

Don't disrespect the park homes.

It is an option I am considering.

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Just now, Cunning Plan said:

Don't disrespect the park homes.

It is an option I am considering.

There you go then. You can live on the windswept hinterland that is the abbey plains. 

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Just now, One percent said:

There you go then. You can live on the windswept hinterland that is the abbey plains. 

I am prepared to slum it but I am not prepared to head North.

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