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Turned Out Nice Again

All jobs suck.

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Following on from my life-long "Fear of Wages" in another thread,

I'm reminded of 60s anarchist Bob Black's famous rant "the Abolition of Work":
https://libcom.org/library/abolition-work-bob-black

and Jordan Peterson's view on "Careers":

It's all a racket, isn't it? And the only reason people do it is coercion, shaming and programming starting in school (and for men, to attract women).

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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Well, thats 'careers' something that really does not exist much these days.

Jobs/skill  sets are a different thing.

I dont mind my job. I can think of some improvements., mainly more holiday, but itll do for now.

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17 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Well, thats 'careers' something that really does not exist much these days.

Jobs/skill  sets are a different thing.

I dont mind my job. I can think of some improvements., mainly more holiday, but itll do for now.

In the winter I ski at lunch, in the summer, cycling. So not too bad. I couldn't do that if I were at home because the missus would object (going bloody cycling again, not till you've put those shelves up!!!). We have a lot of shelves.

So yeah, basically an excuse to get away form Sauron's all seeing eye. It is warm, do some hobbies, flirt with the girls in accounts and I get paid.

Edited by davidg

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How do you just live?

Gable keeps dragging side-kick Montgomery Clift into increasingly unlikely money-making schemes, always overcoming his resistance with the kicker: "Well, it's better than wages, ain't it?"

Although my current job is pretty cushy and I have the fate of an entire gov.uk website in my hands (which should be inspiring), I've been struggling for motivation recently. Maybe I need a Summer job competitively sorting trash on a Lagos rubbish dump to realise how lucky I am.

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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5 minutes ago, davidg said:

In the winter I ski at lunch, in the summer, cycling. So not too bad. I couldn't do that if I were at home because the missus would object (going bloody cycling again, not till you've put those shelves up!!!). We have a lot of shelves.

GastArbeiter?

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10 minutes ago, davidg said:

In the winter I ski at lunch, in the summer, cycling. So not too bad. I couldn't do that if I were at home because the missus would object (going bloody cycling again, not till you've put those shelves up!!!). We have a lot of shelves.

So yeah, basically an excuse to get away form Sauron's all seeing eye. It is warm, do some hobbies, flirt with the girls in accounts and I get paid.

Nice area?

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1 hour ago, davidg said:

In the winter I ski at lunch, in the summer, cycling. So not too bad. I couldn't do that if I were at home because the missus would object (going bloody cycling again, not till you've put those shelves up!!!). We have a lot of shelves.

So yeah, basically an excuse to get away form Sauron's all seeing eye. It is warm, do some hobbies, flirt with the girls in accounts and I get paid.

How do you ski at lunch, are your offices up a mountain, or right by a superfast ski-lift that goes up from low altitude?

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10 minutes ago, BigV said:

I've never understood why some people are obsessed by their 'career'. It seems like misdirected effort and a lack of imagination. I can perhaps understand those who want to get right to the top, but for the millions aspiring to be a middle manager in some corporate hell hole - wtf? 

My early career drive was to avoid boring jobs and, given that I was going to be spending most of my waking hours for five days each week there, then I wanted to maximise my wages.

As I progressed and the money went up what happened, whcih I hadn't anticipated, was that the hours, difficulty, and stress all went up as well.  Hmmm, nobody told me that was going to happen.

I am now on half of my peak salary and half of that stress and absolutely delighted with it.

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1 hour ago, BigV said:

I've never understood why some people are obsessed by their 'career'. It seems like misdirected effort and a lack of imagination. I can perhaps understand those who want to get right to the top, but for the millions aspiring to be a middle manager in some corporate hell hole - wtf? 

There are many examples of people who are striving hard to get to jobs where they'll be more stressed, less happy all round, for about £10K a year extra, and that's before tax.

Doesn't seem worth it, especially if your taxed at the higher rate, but I think it's programmed in to most of us that we're some sort of failure if we're not constantly trying to climb the ladder.

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1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

As I progressed and the money went up what happened, whcih I hadn't anticipated, was that the hours, difficulty, and stress all went up as well.  Hmmm, nobody told me that was going to happen.

I am now on half of my peak salary and half of that stress and absolutely delighted with it.

Yes, as I've reached an age where some of my contemporaries are getting the bigger wages because they're taking say junior management jobs and the like, I sometimes feel like I'm not getting the most from my 'career' by staying in a low stress job and not chasing that extra £10/£15K.

But when I hear the stories of what they have to go through to get that extra money, I know that deep down it wouldn't be worth it for me. All these jobs take their extra 'pound of flesh' for the bigger salaries. And then the government takes 40% of that difference. 

There are exceptions to this of course, mainly cushy public sector jobs, but for the most part you really do work for that extra money.

Edited by JoeDavola

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hughMcLeodCompanyHierarchy.jpg

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

Came across this recently and it rang very true. Slightly disappointingly, it seems my workplace want me to stay at least another year. 

@JoeDavola - I think your next obvious step is to go contracting. 2x/3x the pay for often less hassle. You could probably half your working hours and possibly work from anywhere depending on the field. 

Edited by SCC

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6 minutes ago, SCC said:

@JoeDavola - I think your next obvious step is to go contracting. 2x/3x the pay for often less hassle. 

We'll see what happens over the next few months. I'm currently in the middle of a major project that is challenging but I'm enjoying; however there's been a sly behind-the-scenes promotion that means there's someone above me who as far as I'm concerned is no better than me, but now has the power to channel all the complicated work that he doesn't want to do to onto my desk while taking a higher wage. If that happens and I feel I'm being shat on, I'll have to consider going it alone.

Edited by JoeDavola

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When I was contracting, the workplace joke was that I was the safest one there (in terms of  not being let go). Thing is, it was actually true! 

Edited by BigV

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28 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

We'll see what happens over the next few months. I'm currently in the middle of a major project that is challenging but I'm enjoying; however there's been a sly behind-the-scenes promotion that means there's someone above me who as far as I'm concerned is no better than me, but now has the power to channel all the complicated work that he doesn't want to do to onto my desk while taking a higher wage. If that happens and I feel I'm being shat on, I'll have to consider going it alone.

No idea what your work situation is Joe but consider carefully the nature of the company or organisation. I worked as a contractor somewhere years ago, eventually after the management and their friends had gone public, minted themselves and ripped off investors, they ran the business down, sold out and all the employees, many of whom who had hummed and haad for years about contracting like you, got the boot and received nothing except their salaries and minimum compensation, all dumped onto the job market together as well so costly for some. So in that place, it was good to be a contractor, more money and identical security (ie none) 

Where I work now, it's quite different, I'd much rather be permanent as their jobs are nearly as well paid and pretty secure, the management policies are good unless you f*ck up in a really major way and they will certainly never go bust. 

Doesn't it depend on your plans a bit? I mean, if you're going to be a MGTOW hard case, you might as well make as much dosh as you can as quickly as possible and retire at 50. If you're going to be a slave to support women and children like me and others, you have to think a bit differently.

 

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Ah the old just do contract work and you'll earn shitloads more and that's that. So ridiculously over simplified.

Ask many of those who left permanent roles do do "cushty" contracting roles on the Williams and Glynn programme how they feel about that plan right now.

My LinkedIn is full of rather desperate looking folk. 

For Joe though - single and no dependents or debts i think ? Far lower risk and probably worth giving a go.

In terms of how much more you get paid. When working this out most completely forget to include the benefits of permanent work. They also tend to assume your daily rate goes straight into your pocket. 

If you are considering it - sit down and work out your real daily rate for your job just now.

Salary

Pension contributions

Bonuses

Potential redundancy (I see this as a potential tax free delayed benefit. You never know if course but i would take half what you may get as a yearly amount to include)

Then get your actual working days by taking off paid holidays and potential sick days that you could take with no questions.

Then compare this pre tax daily rate to what you would get in a contract. 

Also remember you have accountancy fees when contracting. 

Then think of the other benefits you may lose out on. The main one i see is flexible working. The place i am at now is incredible. It's a big old bank you will all know.

So many folk get a day off every week or two. It seems almost standard these days. It's for "compressed" hours but most are doing similar hours that they've always done !!

Add that up over a year and it's a huge bonus.

Anyway - my tuppence worth .

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1 hour ago, JoeDavola said:

There are many examples of people who are striving hard to get to jobs where they'll be more stressed, less happy all round, for about £10K a year extra, and that's before tax.

Doesn't seem worth it, especially if your taxed at the higher rate, but I think it's programmed in to most of us that we're some sort of failure if we're not constantly trying to climb the ladder.

Yep, I could have gone much further in my career, earning double what I do now but I didn't want the additional stress and commuting into London that would involve. I'm happy at the level I'm at. I don't work Wednesday's so I loafed around in the garden reading a book. I think it requires confidence to say "far enough".

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4 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

How do you ski at lunch, are your offices up a mountain, or right by a superfast ski-lift that goes up from low altitude?

We're on the flanks of the Chartreuse, nearest ski area is 15 minutes: downhill, cross country or even touring. Lunches can be, ahem, quite extensive mind.

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My job doesn't suck. I get to piss about with machines costing many hundreds of thousands of British pounds, and when the shit hits the fan - which it does regularly - I get to be the hero who fixes the problem, and ensures that the shipment goes out on time. I fucking love it.

it's all the retarded, psycho, cock-womble cunts that I have to suffer while I'm at work that sucks like a twenty-Dollar whore...

 

XYY

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47 minutes ago, davidg said:

We're on the flanks of the Chartreuse, nearest ski area is 15 minutes: downhill, cross country or even touring. Lunches can be, ahem, quite extensive mind.

Cool, lovely area, don't go that way much. Yeah what with changing into and out of ski gear lunch would need to be pretty bloody extensive! :D

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1 hour ago, ccc said:

Salary

Pension contributions

Bonuses

Potential redundancy (I see this as a potential tax free delayed benefit. You never know if course but i would take half what you may get as a yearly amount to include)

Then get your actual working days by taking off paid holidays and potential sick days that you could take with no questions.

Then compare this pre tax daily rate to what you would get in a contract. 

Also remember you have accountancy fees when contracting. 

Then think of the other benefits you may lose out on. The main one i see is flexible working.

Yeah I sat and did the sums and worked out I'd need to earn at least twice what I earn now as a permie, in contractor rates, to make up for the pension/leave/other perks of my current job (as obviously I'd want to take some some holidays as a contractor!) - so the contractor route is a back up at the moment.

The other kick in the balls is that most of the organizations that hire my specialty don't hire contractors directly, so I'd need to partner up with a company who's on the approved lists who'd take a chunk of my daily rate anyway.

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1 hour ago, swissy_fit said:

No idea what your work situation is Joe but consider carefully the nature of the company or organisation. I worked as a contractor somewhere years ago, eventually after the management and their friends had gone public, minted themselves and ripped off investors, they ran the business down, sold out and all the employees, many of whom who had hummed and haad for years about contracting like you, got the boot and received nothing except their salaries and minimum compensation, all dumped onto the job market together as well so costly for some. So in that place, it was good to be a contractor, more money and identical security (ie none) 

Where I work now, it's quite different, I'd much rather be permanent as their jobs are nearly as well paid and pretty secure, the management policies are good unless you f*ck up in a really major way and they will certainly never go bust. 

Doesn't it depend on your plans a bit? I mean, if you're going to be a MGTOW hard case, you might as well make as much dosh as you can as quickly as possible and retire at 50. If you're going to be a slave to support women and children like me and others, you have to think a bit differently.

"MGTOW hard case" :D

Jesus I should get that on a tattoo or something.

I know just the kind of company you're talking about there, but thankfully where I am now is more like where you're currently working in every way except the wages aren't quite as good. One of those things though where a change in management can fuck everything up so you always have to have a plan b.

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8 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Yeah I sat and did the sums and worked out I'd need to earn at least twice what I earn now as a permie, in contractor rates, to make up for the pension/leave/other perks of my current job (as obviously I'd want to take some some holidays as a contractor!) - so the contractor route is a back up at the moment.

The other kick in the balls is that most of the organizations that hire my specialty don't hire contractors directly, so I'd need to partner up with a company who's on the approved lists who'd take a chunk of my daily rate anyway.

Depending on your benefits - mainly pension contribitions, you do need to be looking at the twice the permi rate.

Mu brother  works as a contractor - not very highly paid. The only way he can do the job is that he can claim his daily travel before tax.

If they remove that hed be better off working down the super market.

 

 

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