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IGNORED

Credit deflation and the reflation cycle to come.


DurhamBorn

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29 minutes ago, dgul said:

What's the context?

If I saw it ever as 'insto investors' (or something), then I'd interpret as 'institutional investors', ie, not retail investors.

Thanks, I think that is the likely definition. The context is a list of major shareholders in a company (all of which are definitely non-retail). Cheers

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

I wasn't really thinking in terms of takeover/merger stuff.

More that today there are two 'low risk' PM stocks for UK investors to easily invest (directly) in.  Soon enough there'll only be one -- so if someone UK is keenish to invest then the money will have to flow to Fresnillo.

[I'd also presume that many that have invested in Randgold will now have to sell (strange EU 'no foreign stocks' rules) -- so if they want to remain directly invested in-sector then Fres is the only option]

[Of course, there's lots of smallcaps and funds, but some might want to still invest directly, and there isn't much choice out there]

The EU rules are only for funds,not individual stocks and most can be bought on the US market or the Canadian market very easily.I like Fresnillo ,but much prefer other PM miners.Randgold might still have a UK listing yet as well.Where Fresnillo might gain if from UK funds who can only invest in UK listed shares.

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19 minutes ago, DurhamBorn said:

The EU rules are only for funds,not individual stocks and most can be bought on the US market or the Canadian market very easily.I like Fresnillo ,but much prefer other PM miners.Randgold might still have a UK listing yet as well.Where Fresnillo might gain if from UK funds who can only invest in UK listed shares.

Ah, thanks for the info on shares -- I find it difficult to keep up with what's going on.

(They've announced that a BarriGold will only be listing in NY  & Toronto, but I guess there's plenty of time to change things)

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19 hours ago, MrXxx said:

I think part of the issue is that we now have multiple generations that have become accustomed to state benefits, whether these be universal credit or pensions. As a result people think that given a worse case scenario the state will step in and provide (a reasonable living) for them..I think they are going to find out in the future that this will not be the case.

Don't get me wrong regarding my previous statement, I was as ignorant as the rest (although I was making some pension provision), it's only in the last five years that I have become far more financially aware via sites such as this (and posters generosity with advice) and reading around the subject...I now realize some of the missed opportunities this ignorance has cost me, but it has also allowed me to plan financially for my old age rather than hope for the best.

the problem is so far the state has stepped in,and those that think ahead and plan get peanilised.i wonder when peak i dont give a fk about my future has the state will bail me out will arrive ?

more and more people are delibratly fking the man by either droping there hours or going proffesional benniy claiment.and the more that cant buy a house the worst it will be in the future for the system has they cant fking confiscate it in later years.

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Gold is being battered off $1200 yet so far refuses to die.  Those pesky miners with their pesky operating costs, why cant they just print it like the fed does dollars?  xD

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1 hour ago, stokiescum said:

the problem is so far the state has stepped in,and those that think ahead and plan get peanilised.i wonder when peak i dont give a fk about my future has the state will bail me out will arrive ?

more and more people are delibratly fking the man by either droping there hours or going proffesional benniy claiment.and the more that cant buy a house the worst it will be in the future for the system has they cant fking confiscate it in later years.

Very true. And its a growing number of voters for the pols to keep pandering to, until it reaches a point where it all breaks down. And when that happens it will be the 99% that feel the pain.

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2 minutes ago, null; said:

Very true. And its a growing number of voters for the pols to keep pandering to, until it reaches a point where it all breaks down. And when that happens it will be the 99% that feel the pain.

the ones that will feel the pain the least will be those that can survive on the tax threshold,the proffesional claiments will be fked so to will those earning above the tax threshold,imo obviesly.

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meanwhile new gold inc heads back to bankruptcy.

It really is hated,probably every one pulling out to go rangold/elsewhere pronto.

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1 hour ago, null; said:

Very true. And its a growing number of voters for the pols to keep pandering to, until it reaches a point where it all breaks down. And when that happens it will be the 99% that feel the pain.

As per Alexander Tytler:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy..."

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Talking Monkey
2 hours ago, stokiescum said:

the problem is so far the state has stepped in,and those that think ahead and plan get peanilised.i wonder when peak i dont give a fk about my future has the state will bail me out will arrive ?

more and more people are delibratly fking the man by either droping there hours or going proffesional benniy claiment.and the more that cant buy a house the worst it will be in the future for the system has they cant fking confiscate it in later years.

Makes you wonder if all the prep and saving etc will be pointless as it will just all get confiscated at some point in the future

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13 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

meanwhile new gold inc heads back to bankruptcy.

It really is hated,probably every one pulling out to go rangold/elsewhere pronto.

They are trying to sell their Mesquite Mine to reduce debt and focus efforts on their Rainy River project, which is pretty much do-or-die for the company. The problem is, they should have sold Mesquite way sooner and at way higher price. The reported $158m is only going to make a small dent in their total debt.

Also, they disappeared from ARCA Gold Bugs constituents list today, and if they indeed got delisted then it always promotes a sell-off. Happend with Kirkland Lake last week.

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6 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Makes you wonder if all the prep and saving etc will be pointless as it will just all get confiscated at some point in the future

i think in the 20/30s the yanks even made it illegal to hold bullion and it had to be handed in ,so nothings safe.i fully expect pensions to be means tested soon

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4 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

i think in the 20/30s the yanks even made it illegal to hold bullion and it had to be handed in ,so nothings safe.i fully expect pensions to be means tested soon

Owning Physical or an allocated account is still a good hedge as there will always be a country within which you can sell it.

Pensions are the problem and I can see Governments changing the rules at a drop of a hat.

I am caught between a rock and a hard place with indecision. Do I maximise funding into my pension/SIPP to save on the tax or just enough to ensure my pension falls below the £12k approx taxable allowance and place most of my funds in an ISA that is tax free. Decisions decisions

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22 minutes ago, kibuc said:

They are trying to sell their Mesquite Mine to reduce debt and focus efforts on their Rainy River project, which is pretty much do-or-die for the company. The problem is, they should have sold Mesquite way sooner and at way higher price. The reported $158m is only going to make a small dent in their total debt.

Also, they disappeared from ARCA Gold Bugs constituents list today, and if they indeed got delisted then it always promotes a sell-off. Happend with Kirkland Lake last week.

dont see much of a selloff of KL last 5 days?

image.png.f3c4bbe7561ccff7793e5a81db6ba890.png

 

ah edit, 13th to 18th a big drop. ok.

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I think Kirkland Lake could be a buy at the minute.  I believe VanEck sold of their KL holding to move it from GDXJ to GDX. Same fundamentals just temporary increase in volume. No spare money though, personally.

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45 minutes ago, Agent ZigZag said:

Owning Physical or an allocated account is still a good hedge as there will always be a country within which you can sell it.

Pensions are the problem and I can see Governments changing the rules at a drop of a hat.

I am caught between a rock and a hard place with indecision. Do I maximise funding into my pension/SIPP to save on the tax or just enough to ensure my pension falls below the £12k approx taxable allowance and place most of my funds in an ISA that is tax free. Decisions decisions

once ive got rid of my morgage i will start buying the odd sov.id prefere silver but its the vat that pisses me off.

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Talking Monkey
49 minutes ago, Agent ZigZag said:

Owning Physical or an allocated account is still a good hedge as there will always be a country within which you can sell it.

Pensions are the problem and I can see Governments changing the rules at a drop of a hat.

I am caught between a rock and a hard place with indecision. Do I maximise funding into my pension/SIPP to save on the tax or just enough to ensure my pension falls below the £12k approx taxable allowance and place most of my funds in an ISA that is tax free. Decisions decisions

Couldn't the government take the ISA too or would that be a step too far.

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2 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

once ive got rid of my morgage i will start buying the odd sov.id prefere silver but its the vat that pisses me off.

Just start buying the silver now. Little and often. At £14 approx a coin inc VAt from the likes of Chard (Blackpool) or Coininvest both of which i use will put you in a great position outside the system and tax free if UK coinage. Im not worried by a mad max situation as I consider unlikeley to happen. It is governments that are the problem and the hunt for our money through taxes. Council taxes is my real worry and my financial planning is based around the illusion to show the system that I have no savings.

6 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Couldn't the government take the ISA too or would that be a step too far.

They could in which case I would sell up and Fuck off out of here. The game would be really up by then

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2 hours ago, stokiescum said:

the ones that will feel the pain the least will be those that can survive on the tax threshold,the proffesional claiments will be fked so to will those earning above the tax threshold,imo obviesly.

The answer?...as some have posted on here, the answer is finding the `sweet spot` where your savings/finances are tax efficient (and sufficient), and your pension provision (both private and state) sum to just under your personal tax allowance...this way you can have a modest lifestyle in the knowledge that whoever is milking the system is not doing it at your expense and whatever the current government is wasting taxes on is not coming out of your pocket.

Unfortunately this approach leads to an uncaring society, but some would say we are at that stage already, so not to take such an approach means your generosity gets abused...at least taking an approach you can always choose to give to you favourite charity.

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1 hour ago, stokiescum said:

i think in the 20/30s the yanks even made it illegal to hold bullion and it had to be handed in ,so nothings safe.i fully expect pensions to be means tested soon

What gold and silver?  :ph34r:

I agree pensions are toast, all that debt has a vast chunk of pension assets secured against it.  If the debt gets defaulted on....

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5 minutes ago, MrXxx said:

The answer?...as some have posted on here, the answer is finding the `sweet spot` where your savings/finances are tax efficient (and sufficient), and your pension provision (both private and state) sum to just under your personal tax allowance...this way you can have a modest lifestyle in the knowledge that whoever is milking the system is not doing it at your expense and whatever the current government is wasting taxes on is not coming out of your pocket.

Unfortunately this approach leads to an uncaring society, but some would say we are at that stage already, so not to take such an approach means your generosity gets abused...at least taking an approach you can always choose to give to you favourite charity.

Well put.

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4 minutes ago, MrXxx said:

The answer?...as some have posted on here, the answer is finding the `sweet spot` where your savings/finances are tax efficient (and sufficient), and your pension provision (both private and state) sum to just under your personal tax allowance...this way you can have a modest lifestyle in the knowledge that whoever is milking the system is not doing it at your expense and whatever the current government is wasting taxes on is not coming out of your pocket.

Unfortunately this approach leads to an uncaring society, but some would say we are at that stage already, so not to take such an approach means your generosity gets abused...at least taking an approach you can always choose to give to you favourite charity.

or i could just milk the system myself once my morgage has gone,dont shoot the messanger i am from stoke after all.lol

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1 hour ago, kibuc said:

They are trying to sell their Mesquite Mine to reduce debt and focus efforts on their Rainy River project, which is pretty much do-or-die for the company. The problem is, they should have sold Mesquite way sooner and at way higher price. The reported $158m is only going to make a small dent in their total debt. 

Also, they disappeared from ARCA Gold Bugs constituents list today, and if they indeed got delisted then it always promotes a sell-off. Happend with Kirkland Lake last week. 

Around 300k ounces of AU off the market.  I wonder how many more mines are cash negative with the owners burning through cash reserves and hoping prices rise to save them?

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2 hours ago, Agent ZigZag said:

Owning Physical or an allocated account is still a good hedge as there will always be a country within which you can sell it.

Pensions are the problem and I can see Governments changing the rules at a drop of a hat.

I am caught between a rock and a hard place with indecision. Do I maximise funding into my pension/SIPP to save on the tax or just enough to ensure my pension falls below the £12k approx taxable allowance and place most of my funds in an ISA that is tax free. Decisions decisions

Iv been thinking the same lately for myself and my partner.Im thinking of going back to work for a coupe of years and iv been running lots of numbers around my SIPP/personal allowance etc.I have £11k a year from 67 in pensions so only have £1k a year to play with.The other options of course are the years from 57 (or maybe 55 if they havent moved the age) to 67 to draw down £12k a year + 25% tax free cash.I have plenty of room there for SIPP money.So my plan is if i go back to work to put everything down to £12k in my SIPP and any profit my small business makes into the SIPP.My ISA will simply be left alone to compound up with dividends re-invested.

My no1 priority is to never have more than the tax allowance from income/pensions and the uplift can come from income from my ISA.I simply cant bare to think of income tax being stolen from me to hand to BTL landlords in HB and tax credit junkies.

Its a shame you coudnt still access your pension at 50 and the worry is they keep moving the goalposts.I think the likely moves from government will be to limit 40% tax relief,limit ISA allowances to £1 million max and introduce NI onto income above £12k a year over state retirement age.

 

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