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spygirl

BBC Science NHS

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Just watched my first only bbc prog for 3 months.

The Truth about Carbs.

With that dutchname twin - the one who got fat.

Very good prog. 

Just shown that most diabetes is just a matter of cutting out junk carbs. Oh dear. NHS and GPs are unscientific bullshitters.

Flipped to trailer for news. That sophie raworth still has great tits.

 

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3 minutes ago, dgul said:

They won't be able to admit it until it is so obvious to everyone that they have no choice -- Their health policy, education, advice, everything, has been wrong for 30+ years and they've been telling people to do the exact thing that would exacerbate their condition.

👍

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, One percent said:

👍

My son (12ish) did 'the food pyramid' at school recently -- I had to help him with his revision for it.  I said something along the lines of 'I'm going to teach you two things -- what you need to know for the test, and what you actually need to know'.  After I'd finished he was keen to make some comment on it in class, but I told him that the teacher would only take away marks for saying 'we should eat more fat'.

Food_pyramid_transp_landscape_640.gif?ex

Edited by dgul

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, dgul said:

They won't be able to admit it until it is so obvious to everyone that they have no choice -- Their health policy, education, advice, everything, has been wrong for 30+ years and they've been telling people to do the exact thing that would exacerbate their condition.

I had a chat with my son about the sciemtific process.

Theres nothing smart about it. Its dumb. If science says only eat green ice ream whilst standing on your left foot to loose wieght and it works - thats science. It gives you an avenue to investigate why.

Ditto - if some mouldy gunk kills bacteria ...

The problem with medocal DRs is they are totally unscientific. Worse, they are uppittity morons who think they are smart but are not. Life is complex any one who thinks theyve sussed it is not smart but a moron. Again - treating stomach ulcers with antibiotics. Huge peer pressure, billions spent on treating stomach acids.

We should not put medical DRs on a pedestal. 

Edited by spygirl

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4 minutes ago, dgul said:

My son (12ish) did 'the food pyramid' at school recently -- I had to help him with his revision for it.  I said something along the lines of 'I'm going to teach you two things -- what you need to know for the test, and what you actually need to know'.  After I'd finished he was keen to make some comment on it in class, but I told him that the teacher would only take away marks for saying 'we should eat more fat'.

Food_pyramid_transp_landscape_640.gif?ex

 

The yellow band is where the actual nutrition is.

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4 minutes ago, dgul said:

My son (12ish) did 'the food pyramid' at school recently -- I had to help him with his revision for it.  I said something along the lines of 'I'm going to teach you two things -- what you need to know for the test, and what you actually need to know'.  After I'd finished he was keen to make some comment on it in class, but I told him that the teacher would only take away marks for saying 'we should eat more fat'.

Food_pyramid_transp_landscape_640.gif?ex

Well, its not so much more fats, svoid some carbs and be selectice of tge ones you do eat.

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9 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Well, its not so much more fats, svoid some carbs and be selectice of tge ones you do eat.

I'm not convinced.  That's the 'we've only got it a bit wrong' argument -- and it is being pushed quite a bit by people who can't bring themselves to look at the actual evidence.  I've no idea what the 'right' answer is, but I don't think they do either.

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53 minutes ago, dgul said:

I'm not convinced.  That's the 'we've only got it a bit wrong' argument -- and it is being pushed quite a bit by people who can't bring themselves to look at the actual evidence

Me neither.

Professor Tim Noakes, "Lore of Nutrition", interesting read.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lore-Nutrition-Challenging-conventional-dietary/dp/1776092619/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528324247&sr=8-1&keywords=lore+of+nutrition+tim+noakes

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53 minutes ago, Lone Lurker said:

I'm not sure why this is seen as at all controversial, I though it was common knowledge these days that high protein moderate fat low carb was the way to go.

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8 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

I'm not sure why this is seen as at all controversial, I though it was common knowledge these days that high protein moderate fat low carb was the way to go.

Moderate protein, low carb, high fat. Banting diet or The Real Meal Revolution.

https://realmealrevolution.com/10-commandments-beginner-banting/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1472135695/ref=s9u_simh_gw_i2?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=1472135695&pd_rd_r=40689bbe-6a2d-11e8-b106-7f5015b26594&pd_rd_w=BkU5q&pd_rd_wg=GveWz&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=PA9PGFAYR93VCKF2AVVE&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=187bec3b-0822-4044-bbe9-441718232b3f&pf_rd_i=desktop

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9 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

I'm not sure why this is seen as at all controversial, I though it was common knowledge these days that high protein moderate fat low carb was the way to go.

only common knowledge for those that spend at least 5 mins researching the subject. But for the other 80million people in UK, nah, they still adhere to low fat diets.

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9 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

I'm not sure why this is seen as at all controversial, I though it was common knowledge these days that high protein moderate fat low carb was the way to go.

I'm of the opinion that that's the 'we only got it half wrong' argument.  See, they can't -- just can't -- bring themselves to think that it is fat is where we should be getting the bulk of our energy.

19 minutes ago, Lone Lurker said:

Moderate protein, low carb, high fat. Banting diet or The Real Meal Revolution.

But, but, but -- fat!

Fat has been the enemy for years and years.  To consider that fat should be the base of the diet is revolutionary thought.

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16 minutes ago, Lone Lurker said:

Moderate protein, low carb, high fat. Banting diet or The Real Meal Revolution.

I think you can get away with any combination as long as you stick to very basic ingredients. A high fat diet isn't great if it is largely hydrogenated vegetable oils. A high carb diet isn't necessarily a problem as long as the carbs aren't refined, or excessively concentrated.

I reckon, if your shopping trolley is full of a variety of simple parts of plants or animals, you'll be fine. The more it is full of boxes of "stuff" that has been processed or refined the more risk of poor health . 

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

I'm of the opinion that that's the 'we only got it half wrong' argument.  See, they can't -- just can't -- bring themselves to think that it is fat is where we should be getting the bulk of our energy.

But, but, but -- fat!

Fat has been the enemy for years and years.  To consider that fat should be the base of the diet is revolutionary thought.

But Atkins which is essentially identical to this Banting diet came out over 20 years ago .... i know loads of people (including me) who were successful with as were various celebs.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

A high carb diet isn't necessarily a problem as long as the carbs aren't refined, or excessively concentrated.

I think it very much does matter and depends greatly on your personal metabolism, I'm very carb sensitive and cant even look at a potato without blowing up like a triggered air bag (and I've been dong far to much looking in recent years ...)

Edited by goldbug9999

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

But Atkins which is essentially identical to this Banting diet came out over 20 years ago .... i know loads of people (including me) who were successful with as were various celebs.

Sure, but it is completely dismissed by the official health industry.  The NHS could never accept it.  It'll say things like 'Atkins might get you to lose weight at first, but it is an unhealthy diet that'll lead to a myriad of problems later'. 

Actually, I think that those few GPs that have investigated the situation will think that the current advice is wrong (hence the OP BBC programme), but it is the next level down, the professional diet industry, that can't cope.  People have professional qualifications that entitle them to speak to people and tell them what to eat, and those people just can't accept that the entirety of their earning power is based on flawed magic.  

And the next level down again -- the professional do-gooders, like the ones in local-councils that push for low fat in schools, or to introduce a fat-tax to drive 'healthy diets' -- they're even worse.

Edited by dgul

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Posted (edited)

Isn't Atkins more extreme and about trying to eliminate all carbs? personally I think that's taking it too far.

I've found 33:33:33 to be a good target, it's surprisingly hard to achieve and more importantly maintain for life. I'm probably 30 protein, 40 carb 30 fat as I like a cider or two this time of year, so shoot me,.

but even 30:40:30 is better than the average diet, US diet is typically 15 prot 50 carb 35 fat

Edited by snagger

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22 minutes ago, snagger said:

Isn't Atkins more extreme and about trying to eliminate all carbs? personally I think that's taking it too far.

I've found 33:33:33 to be a good target, it's surprisingly hard to achieve and more importantly maintain for life. I'm probably 30 protein, 40 carb 30 fat as I like a cider or two this time of year, so shoot me,.

but even 30:40:30 is better than the average diet, US diet is typically 15 prot 50 carb 35 fat

Not really, it's the reverse of what's now becoming more mainstream. There is a very short induction phase, but past that it's High Protein, Moderate Fat as opposed to Moderate Protein, High Fat. 

From what I can tell his process was to get people off carbs, this reduces glycogen scores and so a seemingly big loss early on, then reintroduce carbs. A Marketing trick as much as anything else. 

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7 minutes ago, gilf said:

Not really, it's the reverse of what's now becoming more mainstream. There is a very short induction phase, but past that it's High Protein, Moderate Fat as opposed to Moderate Protein, High Fat. 

From what I can tell his process was to get people off carbs, this reduces glycogen scores and so a seemingly big loss early on, then reintroduce carbs. A Marketing trick as much as anything else. 

The New Atkins is now much lower protein, backed up with scientific research, check out Volek and Phinney.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Lone Lurker said:

The New Atkins is now much lower protein, backed up with scientific research, check out Volek and Phinney.

Yeah, I meant the older stuff, i.e. as promoted by Atkins Himself. In fairness even then I suspect it was in defence from the low fat lobby which was very much the opposition at the time the books was originally written.

Regardless, not as suggested above to eliminate all carbs... this from the Atkins website

https://uk.atkins.com/why-atkins/the-phases/

Phase 1 - Induction

Kickstart your weight loss and get started on your low carb transformation.

Phase 2 - Ongoing Weight Loss

Enjoy your low carb confidence and find your carb tolerance.

Phase 3 - Pre-maintenance

Continue to add good carbs until you find your level to allow you to maintain the weight lost.

Phase 4 - Maintenance

Establish a long-term way of being healthy for good.

----- 

Know all about Volek and Phinney, I lost 10 stone doing a ketogenic diet. 

Edited by gilf

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Keto works well for me too, healthiest I've been in my whole life :)

No such thing as healthy carbs for me, very insulin resistant, anything over about 25g a day and I put on weight irrespective of total calorie intake.

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