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Kurt Barlow

Scumbag employers

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My wife has just realised the company she is employed by has scammed her. 

She took a permanent job as a Chemical Process Engineer which starting with the building of a new plant which she has been instrumental in delivering.

Now it is complete, despite all the bureaucratic obstacles put in her way it appears they have now decided she is too expensive so they want to replace with numpties on 15K less. 

So her boss has written a fictional performance review which doesn't appear to have any relationship to her JD and has an extremely negative tone. She has challenged them to come up with specific examples and they have failed to do so. So basically these are accusations they can't actually substantiate. 

However having only been employed for one year it appears employers can do what they like and basically say - we are cunts and are going to start a process to dismiss you and you cant do fuck all because of the 2 year qualifying period to take a case to the Tribunal. A reasonable employer would go down the redundancy route and offer a few months voluntary. 

Had they offered her a job on the basis of a 12 month contract rather than the prospect of a long term stable position she would have negotiated a wage commensurate with a 12 month project. 

So the question to fellow Dosboders is - what options does she have to pay the cunts back? 

  • I suggested a discrimination claim on the basis she is Muslim but she rejected that. 
  • All her informal notes are going to disappear next week. 
  • She has started a Nebosh Certificate (mainly for CPD)and is going to do that in work time. 
  • I have recommended taking a few sickies. To date she would have dragged herself in if she had Ebola. 

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Posted (edited)

To start with I suggest she clears all her belongings, clothes, books, professional magazines, equipment etc etc from the office and her desk as soon as possible so that if she decides for her own benefit to just up sticks and leave she can do it just like that.  It also prevents scumbag employers' light fingered cronies taking advantage.

Edited by twocents

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3 minutes ago, twocents said:

To start with I suggest she clears all her belongings, clothes, books, professional magazines, equipment etc etc from the office and her desk as soon as possible so that if she decides for her own benefit to just up sticks and leave she can do it just like that.  It also prevents scumbag employer's light fingered cronies taking advantage.

Nah - she will do the Nebosh cert on their time. 

Now before she was so conscientious that she would only do this in her own time although it has benefits for the organisation. But now she might as well milk her last months and forthcoming notice period (she is going to resign at end of month) 

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Just now, Kurt Barlow said:

Nah - she will do the Nebosh cert on their time. 

Now before she was so conscientious that she would only do this in her own time although it has benefits for the organisation. But now she might as well milk her last months and forthcoming notice period (she is going to resign at end of month) 

Fair enough but only keep the absolutely essential bare minimum of personal belongings etc in the office and in her desk etc to do that.

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28 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

My wife has just realised the company she is employed by has scammed her. 

She took a permanent job as a Chemical Process Engineer which starting with the building of a new plant which she has been instrumental in delivering.

Now it is complete, despite all the bureaucratic obstacles put in her way it appears they have now decided she is too expensive so they want to replace with numpties on 15K less. 

So her boss has written a fictional performance review which doesn't appear to have any relationship to her JD and has an extremely negative tone. She has challenged them to come up with specific examples and they have failed to do so. So basically these are accusations they can't actually substantiate. 

However having only been employed for one year it appears employers can do what they like and basically say - we are cunts and are going to start a process to dismiss you and you cant do fuck all because of the 2 year qualifying period to take a case to the Tribunal. A reasonable employer would go down the redundancy route and offer a few months voluntary. 

Had they offered her a job on the basis of a 12 month contract rather than the prospect of a long term stable position she would have negotiated a wage commensurate with a 12 month project. 

So the question to fellow Dosboders is - what options does she have to pay the cunts back? 

  • I suggested a discrimination claim on the basis she is Muslim but she rejected that. 
  • All her informal notes are going to disappear next week. 
  • She has started a Nebosh Certificate (mainly for CPD)and is going to do that in work time. 
  • I have recommended taking a few sickies. To date she would have dragged herself in if she had Ebola. 

Find a new job that pays more.

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1 minute ago, Cunning Plan said:

Find a new job that pays more.

She said no more permanent jobs where they work you like a dog 

Contract roles from now on - which would work better as when our boy goes to school we will have hols to deal with. 

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1 minute ago, Kurt Barlow said:

She said no more permanent jobs where they work you like a dog 

Contract roles from now on - which would work better as when our boy goes to school we will have hols to deal with. 

That will do.

I will be unpopular but I believe all employment laws (except those regarding safety) should be ripped up. 

Following the Peter Principle, this country has way too many people working beyond their level of competence and therefore job blocking. 

I would prefer the American system. If you can't cut it, move aside for someone that can.

(That wasn't directed at your wife. I would guess that many of the jobs she would excel at are being blocked by incompetents)

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3 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

That will do.

I will be unpopular but I believe all employment laws (except those regarding safety) should be ripped up. 

Following the Peter Principle, this country has way too many people working beyond their level of competence and therefore job blocking. 

I would prefer the American system. If you can't cut it, move aside for someone that can.

(That wasn't directed at your wife. I would guess that many of the jobs she would excel at are being blocked by incompetents)

I'm not hugely in favour of regulations in general either, but if you don't have employee protections in law then there needs to be a level of ethical behaviour expected from both employee and employer, else every employee will do the absolute bare minimum while having half an eye out for their next job, and productivity will fall badly. This really is a reprehensible thing for Kurt's wife's employers to do, and they deserve to be punished for it. I'm a headbanger who would gladly cut off my own nose to spite my face if it annoyed me enough, and so if it were me I'd be doing my utmost to make sure that everyone who might potentially end up working for this firm knew exactly how they were likely to be treated, even if it scared other potential employers off me.

I spent the last few months of my last job telling people in lower grades to me who mentioned going for a promotion to my grade that it was a shit job and their lives would be made a misery. By the sounds of it I wasn't the only one, as they're about 25% short of establishment now!

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3 minutes ago, Rave said:

I'm not hugely in favour of regulations in general either, but if you don't have employee protections in law then there needs to be a level of ethical behaviour expected from both employee and employer, else every employee will do the absolute bare minimum while having half an eye out for their next job, and productivity will fall badly. This really is a reprehensible thing for Kurt's wife's employers to do, and they deserve to be punished for it. I'm a headbanger who would gladly cut off my own nose to spite my face if it annoyed me enough, and so if it were me I'd be doing my utmost to make sure that everyone who might potentially end up working for this firm knew exactly how they were likely to be treated, even if it scared other potential employers off me.

I spent the last few months of my last job telling people in lower grades to me who mentioned going for a promotion to my grade that it was a shit job and their lives would be made a misery. By the sounds of it I wasn't the only one, as they're about 25% short of establishment now!

I think the opposite. Productivity is shit because most people know full well they can't be fired.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Rave said:

I'm not hugely in favour of regulations in general either, but if you don't have employee protections in law then there needs to be a level of ethical behaviour expected from both employee and employer, else every employee will do the absolute bare minimum while having half an eye out for their next job, and productivity will fall badly. This really is a reprehensible thing for Kurt's wife's employers to do, and they deserve to be punished for it. I'm a headbanger who would gladly cut off my own nose to spite my face if it annoyed me enough, and so if it were me I'd be doing my utmost to make sure that everyone who might potentially end up working for this firm knew exactly how they were likely to be treated, even if it scared other potential employers off me.

I spent the last few months of my last job telling people in lower grades to me who mentioned going for a promotion to my grade that it was a shit job and their lives would be made a misery. By the sounds of it I wasn't the only one, as they're about 25% short of establishment now!

I would also be doing the rounds within the scumbag company to let everyone know my experience and how they were going to be treated (along the lines of your last paragraph).  Most of them would already probably know anyhow but it wouldn't do any harm to confirm their suspicions - and it helps to fill in the time.

Edited by twocents

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4 minutes ago, Rave said:

I'm not hugely in favour of regulations in general either, but if you don't have employee protections in law then there needs to be a level of ethical behaviour expected from both employee and employer, else every employee will do the absolute bare minimum while having half an eye out for their next job, and productivity will fall badly. This really is a reprehensible thing for Kurt's wife's employers to do, and they deserve to be punished for it. I'm a headbanger who would gladly cut off my own nose to spite my face if it annoyed me enough, and so if it were me I'd be doing my utmost to make sure that everyone who might potentially end up working for this firm knew exactly how they were likely to be treated, even if it scared other potential employers off me.

I spent the last few months of my last job telling people in lower grades to me who mentioned going for a promotion to my grade that it was a shit job and their lives would be made a misery. By the sounds of it I wasn't the only one, as they're about 25% short of establishment now!

Websites like Glassdoor are a good way of expressing your view. 

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Just now, twocents said:

I would also be doing the rounds within the company to let everyone know my experience and how they were likely going to be treated.  Most of them already probably know anyhow but it doesn't do any harm to confirm their suspicions.

She is not the first to be on the receiving end of this treatment - she is number 3/4. They have also down this to the Production Manager and QA Manager and filled from below with a more jnr member of staff after the Production and QA managers had set up and developed all the systems.

The master revenge will be her detailed knowledge of all the dodgy short cuts the installers got away with and where she was overidden by the General Manager. 

I feel a detailed letter to the HSE might be written in 6 months. 

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10 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I think the opposite. Productivity is shit because most people know full well they can't be fired.

Well sure, I saw that in my last job as well, people who were useless and/or complete pisstakers staying in jobs far too long because it was a hassle to fire or demote them. Maybe the system we have now is as good as it's going to get and Kurt's wife was just unlucky to get on the wrong end of an arsehole expoiting it. But if enough people do that and get away with it and trust in the system breaks down, then that's clearly going to be bad for everyone.

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Posted (edited)

I worked for Comet as it was going down.  The private equity firm who owned it, fucked off with £54m whilst the govt had to pay out £26m in redundancy payments...I got fuck all, as I wasn't there long enough...What a bunch of cunts...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/former-owner-of-comet-collects-54m-8766926.html

Edited by Dave Beans

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1 hour ago, Kurt Barlow said:

She said no more permanent jobs where they work you like a dog 

Contract roles from now on - which would work better as when our boy goes to school we will have hols to deal with. 

That 2 year law came in under Thatcher i think. Sometime around the late 80s early 90s?? I had it in my mind from that point forth, that self employment was the way to go. Have been self employed to some degree since 97, and one of the main reasons was that legislation.

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Sympathies to you and your wife Kurt..  there is nothing worse than working with people who are so fundamentally dishonest.  Sounds like a terrible organisation to work for..  with management like that being out is probably better in the long run.  

She probably needs to be careful not to obviously/deliberately cause damage to the company,  but I would be inclined to agree with previous posters who suggested making the hand over as unhelpful as possible and perhaps losing much of the paperwork.

Outside of that I would really just focus my efforts on finding another (hopefully better) employer.  

Good luck!

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Destroy all support documentation; and don't write any more.

Go on stress leave; due to a combination of being burnt out and stressed about the way she was spoken to at her appraisal (only do this if it won't affect her future career prospects).

Tell everyone what cunts the company are - via glass door and by informal word of mouth - people in specialist industries know each other and word gets around quickly if an employee is bad to work for.

It sounds to me like they were wanting contracor employment conditions without the high contracor pay that comes with that - so she's obviously talented enough to become a contractor and should do so. 

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I would do the work equivalent of prawns in the curtain poles. 

Im amazed that they haven’t put her on gardening leave as the amount of destruction she could do is, I would think, immense. So, as others have aside, she needs to clear out her stuff and then go on a sabotage mission, making sure it can’t be pinned on her

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As the dirty has been done I would go the discrimination route; I know you have said that she doesn't want to but needs must.

A friend who pretty much never mentioned it had a Ukrainian father but apart from the foreign surname there was no indication he was anything other than 100% British.  He, and other British people, at the company saw the German boss appoint western Europeans ahead of them and he may have been facing redundancy, anyway few years back so I'm hazy on details.

Anyway he retained a lawyer who wrote a letter that he felt he was being discriminated against because of his East European / Ukrainian background and intended to sue.  As ever in these cases the HR department had a fit of the vapours and IIRC he was offered a very generous settlement to leave and not pursue the claim which he was happy to take.

Whilst he would never regard himself as anything but British and is contemptuous of discrimination laws sometimes you need to take up the weapons that you have to hand once your employer has ceased to play fairly with you.

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7 hours ago, Cunning Plan said:

I think the opposite. Productivity is shit because most people know full well they can't be fired.

 

Nope.

Every where Ive worked - first 2 years and you can be out on your arse.

Everywhere else has getting rid polciies.

Failing that, most companies get a slowdown every 8 years or so. A recession gives you cover of getting rid of people.

Outside of the public sector, the churn/removal on jobs is pretty high.

 

7 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

My wife has just realised the company she is employed by has scammed her. 

She took a permanent job as a Chemical Process Engineer which starting with the building of a new plant which she has been instrumental in delivering.

Now it is complete, despite all the bureaucratic obstacles put in her way it appears they have now decided she is too expensive so they want to replace with numpties on 15K less. 

So her boss has written a fictional performance review which doesn't appear to have any relationship to her JD and has an extremely negative tone. She has challenged them to come up with specific examples and they have failed to do so. So basically these are accusations they can't actually substantiate. 

However having only been employed for one year it appears employers can do what they like and basically say - we are cunts and are going to start a process to dismiss you and you cant do fuck all because of the 2 year qualifying period to take a case to the Tribunal. A reasonable employer would go down the redundancy route and offer a few months voluntary. 

Had they offered her a job on the basis of a 12 month contract rather than the prospect of a long term stable position she would have negotiated a wage commensurate with a 12 month project. 

So the question to fellow Dosboders is - what options does she have to pay the cunts back? 

  • I suggested a discrimination claim on the basis she is Muslim but she rejected that. 
  • All her informal notes are going to disappear next week. 
  • She has started a Nebosh Certificate (mainly for CPD)and is going to do that in work time. 
  • I have recommended taking a few sickies. To date she would have dragged herself in if she had Ebola. 

Is it Ineos?

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44 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

As the dirty has been done I would go the discrimination route; I know you have said that she doesn't want to but needs must.

I’d disagree.. but only on a moral level.  This advice may work but playing the race card if there hasn’t been any discrimination (it doesn’t sound like there was) is equally dishonest as her employer is being.   I think your wife is correct to stick to her principles and I admire her for that.

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6 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I’d disagree.. but only on a moral level.  This advice may work but playing the race card if there hasn’t been any discrimination (it doesn’t sound like there was) is equally dishonest as her employer is being.   I think your wife is correct to stick to her principles and I admire her for that.

I try and operate an informal network to try and find out about people.

Not some Stasi like operation to the 'right sort of person'./ More just to try and avoid employing loons.

By that, I mean people hwo cannot work with others - no someone who's a bit grumpy but to avoid total fucking loons.

Also I avoid the the difficult pian in the arses- there are some. People kicking off about race fall into that.

Ditto pro sickies. By that, I dont mean people who are sick less than 10days/year, or have the odd incident - shit happens.

I mean the person who get 'flu' or 'migraines' and are off for 2-3 days every 2 weeks.

Kurts wife has been fooled. It happens.

If she cannot stick it out - and I dont think she should - she should go on go slow and dedicate her energies to finding another jobs.

Sometimes jobs dont work out - it may be me, it may be them, it may be the stars. Just stick to your contract and leave.

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I try and operate an informal network to try and find out about people.

Not some Stasi like operation to the 'right sort of person'./ More just to try and avoid employing loons.

By that, I mean people hwo cannot work with others - no someone who's a bit grumpy but to avoid total fucking loons.

Also I avoid the the difficult pian in the arses- there are some. People kicking off about race fall into that.

Ditto pro sickies. By that, I dont mean people who are sick less than 10days/year, or have the odd incident - shit happens.

I mean the person who get 'flu' or 'migraines' and are off for 2-3 days every 2 weeks.

Kurts wife has been fooled. It happens.

If she cannot stick it out - and I dont think she should - she should go on go slow and dedicate her energies to finding another jobs.

Sometimes jobs dont work out - it may be me, it may be them, it may be the stars. Just stick to your contract and leave.

 

It’s not that the job hasn’t worked out.  From what Kurt says, they have royally screwed her over. They have wanted a specialist contractor to set up their new site on the cheap. 

Kurt and his partner have then based decisions on this so called permanent job, moved, sorted out childcare etc.  They could be seriously out of pocket due to the underhand shittyness of the employer. 

Then, they are now trying to get out of the redundancy by making up derogatory lies about her work performance. 

If it were me, I’d be looking to torch the place. 

Edited by One percent
Put touch when I really meant torch 😁

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Even back in the '80s - my first 'proper job'. I did the first two years as 'temporary' (with the thought that if something better turned up, I could get away with a very short notice period).  Coming up to the end of year 2 - HR wanted me terminated (sacked - not a contract killing), purely because I'd then become permanent. Fortunately I had a line manager who fought my corner for me. 

I've had employers ring me up (to act as a referee for other individuals); who have made it quite clear to me that they intend to shaft the person - offer them a temporary contract with the carrot of something better at the end while they go through the process of finding a 'proper' (ie cheaper, more malleable) candidate for the 'real' job. My advice to the candidate is to withdraw their application.

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