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Frank Hovis

Muslim crowd surfing

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Well I was warmed for a 1 minute by their human cries of distress as this poor man killed himself.....

Then I found this....

Quote

Totally HARAM.....really don’t know what prompted him to do such an evil thing in the most pure and Holy place, may ALLAH guide us all. Ameen

Why? You did suicide in holy place? Why?

O.o

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Battenberg said:

Are we sure it was a man. 

From RT:

While the man’s identity has not been announced, there are conflicting reports on the matter. Daily Times says that he was 35 years old, and Daily Sabah reports citing local media that he was a 26-year-old French citizen who converted to Islam.

The incident occurred during the fasting month of Ramadan, when thousands of Muslims flock to the Grand Mosque. Suicide is considered a major sin in Islam.

Last year, a Saudi man was captured by police as he was trying to set himself ablaze near the Kaaba.

 

 

Also: do they let women in?  I didn't see any women in the video.

Maybe they empower the women by making them stay outside.

Edited by Frank Hovis

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He probably was a genuine religious Muslim who had saved for a lifetime for this one off pilgrimage. 

On arrival he found that what he had actually done was plough his life savings into funding the Al Sauds Las Mecca resort. 

On that decided to top himself. 

 

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I dunno.

I suppose people can reach 'depths of despair' from any background.

But what I think might have happened here is that unscrupulous* Imams are going after the mentally poorly (whether intrinsically so, like 'subnormal people' or temporarily so, like people with depression caused by life changes).  These people are then more readily influenced into doing crazy things like suicide bombing etc.  But these people are more predisposed to self-harm/suicide, and this has come to fruition here.

15 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

He probably was a genuine religious Muslim who had saved for a lifetime for this one off pilgrimage. 

On arrival he found that what he had actually done was plough his life savings into funding the Al Sauds Las Mecca resort. 

On that decided to top himself. 

Well, possibly not quite like that, but it would be quite believable to consider that someone would think that they'd be filled with whatever the Muslim equivalent of the Holy Spirit is, but once they'd got there found it to be an experience devoid of 'religious experience', and, coupled with an intrinsic depression (above) would consider the 'cause most disruption' route (akin to the train / jumper suicide). 

[* or maybe standard Imams -- preying on the 'weak' is a well known tactic of all cults and religions]

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

I dunno.

I suppose people can reach 'depths of despair' from any background.

But what I think might have happened here is that unscrupulous* Imams are going after the mentally poorly (whether intrinsically so, like 'subnormal people' or temporarily so, like people with depression caused by life changes).  These people are then more readily influenced into doing crazy things like suicide bombing etc.  But these people are more predisposed to self-harm/suicide, and this has come to fruition here.

Well, possibly not quite like that, but it would be quite believable to consider that someone would think that they'd be filled with whatever the Muslim equivalent of the Holy Spirit is, but once they'd got there found it to be an experience devoid of 'religious experience', and, coupled with an intrinsic depression (above) would consider the 'cause most disruption' route (akin to the train / jumper suicide). 

[* or maybe standard Imams -- preying on the 'weak' is a well known tactic of all cults and religions]

Even my most religious Iranian relatives haven't bothered going to Mecca for years. Partly politics but also the fact that the Al Sauds have turned Mecca into a Partay resort. Instead they donate a sum of money to charity and if they ca,n spend the time doing charity work. My BIL builds toilets and low tech sewage treatment plants in the sticks. His Missus runs a voluntary library at a local hospital. 

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4 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Suicide is considered a major sin in Islam.

Maybe they empower the women by making them stay outside.

It looks like a nice day probably the women have gone for a drive.

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

Maybe our BBC are ahead of the game referring to So-called Islamic State.

Could it be ISIS is not Islamic ?

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23 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

It looks like a nice day probably the women have gone for a drive.

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

Maybe our BBC are ahead of the game referring to So-called Islamic State.

Could it be ISIS is not Islamic ?

Dying for Allah.

 

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30 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

Suicide is OK if it's used in jihad

Quote

Islamists find suicide for personal reasons abominable, suicide for jihad admirable.

There you go O.o

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49 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

 

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

 

This is a deep theological question for Islam.  

It certainly would have been Haram for most up to the 1980's -- it was the proclamations of the  Ayatollah Khomeini in 1980 regarding suicide bombers being martyrs that introduced the age of suicide  bombing.

It isn't enough to say 'martyrdom' though, as this isn't what it meant originally -- indeed, the usual interpretation is that if battle meant certain death then you'd do everything you could to work out a different solution; you'd only consider fighting battles you think you'd have a chance of winning.

Anyway, It absolutely doesn't make sense to me even in their religious terms; it doesn't seem to be compatible with the usual religious texts.  More than that, there is a deep question regarding who you get to do the suicides -- if it is a grown man then they can make up their own minds, but the leaders so often choose children, the weak and even women, which are elsewhere singled out as being suitable for protection from war. 

[Clearly, it is a tactic designed by man and then post-hoc rationalised; that is a common practise in 'religion']

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28 minutes ago, dgul said:

More than that, there is a deep question regarding who you get to do the suicides -- if it is a grown man then they can make up their own minds, but the leaders so often choose children, the weak and even women, which are elsewhere singled out as being suitable for protection from war. 

 

I read a post on Reddit that contained posts from US troops who had been stationed in the Middle East and Afghanistan. Several of them stated that often the suicide bombers had had their hands tied by someone other than them. It was clear to them that the suicide bombers were not always committing the act on their own volition. Detonation by mobile phone remotely is another indication that not all are willing participants.

Vile theology.

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4 hours ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

I believe its something like the old proverb that says 'don't do unto yourself what you would do to your neighbours'.

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5 hours ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

It looks like a nice day probably the women have gone for a drive.

If suicide is considered a major sin in Islam how do Jihadi suicide bombers reconcile blowing themselves up ?

Maybe our BBC are ahead of the game referring to So-called Islamic State.

Could it be ISIS is not Islamic ?

the british army first came across jihad in afghanistan in 1839 where the tribesmen fought more effectively for the emir rather than the tribal leaders

here is william brydon the sole survivor from the retreat to Jalalabad out of 16500

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

350px-Remnants_of_an_army2.jpg

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