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Rave

Free Speech, the defence of

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FFS! From your description of the events I would say you are right to be fuming. Pandering/cowing to noisy and threatening behaviour surely just encourages more of that behaviour. Mob rule, by an unruly mob...

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I am assuming this was the case but a shame the point wasn't made at the event that rather than shutting down the event the police were not out arresting those who apparently pose a threat. 

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Just now, onlyme said:

I am assuming this was the case but a shame the point wasn't made at the event that rather than shutting down the event the police were not out arresting those who apparently pose a threat. 

The point was made to them by our candidate. Their response was essentially to blame the organisers of the hustings for not informing them in advance how big the mob that turned up would be :wanker: .

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Just now, Rave said:

The point was made to them by our candidate. Their response was essentially to blame the organisers of the hustings for not informing them in advance how big the mob that turned up would be :wanker: .

WTF? What a load of nonsense.

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I'm going to make a complaint to someone. But I daresay it should be to the police rather than the electoral commission, who were not involved in the event? Anyone know how to go about it?

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7 hours ago, Rave said:

I haven't bothered to post about this previously as I doubt any of you live in my constituency, but I've spent the last couple of weeks campaigning in the Lewisham East by-election for the Young People's Party, a Georgist party founded by a former contributor to TOS. If anyone else here is a Georgist or just interested in the idea of a Land Value Tax, then check us out, but that's not the point of this post.

Tonight was the one and only election hustings held in the constituency, organised in the local Sally Army hall by a local activist. The Labour and Consertative canditates declined to attend, but 11 of the other 14 people standing did turn up and take their seat on the stage. The 12th and last, Anne Marie Waters of The For Britain Movement, did not, which may have had something to do with what was going on outside:

https://twitter.com/YPPUK/status/1006614421899284480

Nontheless the meeting commenced with a bit of low level noise from outside. The first three candidates stood up to give their 2 minute stump speeches which were respectfully received. The fourth, the UKIP candidate, who is black, was interrupted by a (white) silly old bag who walked up and announced that she was from "Lewisham Anti Racism" before being loudly jeered by pretty much everyone present. She was eventually escorted away by a policeman after tearing in half the A4 sheet of paper with Waters' name and party on it. The other candidates then gave their two minute speeches, again politely listened to and applauded by all present.

And then...the organiser announced that the police were shutting the meeting down in the interests of public safety, as apparently three people had been assaulted outside. I didn't see anyone who looked remotely distressed, and the meeting was proceeding much better than I'd expected coming in.

So basically, the one and only opportunity to listen to and question 12 out of the 14 candidates to be our MP, to stand up in parliament and represent us- including me, as I've lived in the constituency for all but 4 of my 39 years- was shut down because the police apparently can't deal with a few troublemakers who think shouting and shoving is the way to win an argument. I'm absolutely fucking fuming about it, and I'm far more angry with the Met than I am with the protestors outside, most of who will have been misguided idiots like the woman who thought she was standing up to racism by talking over a black bloke, rather than hardcore antifa thugs.

What a load of bollocks.

https://twitter.com/RuudGit/status/1006642136715022336

Thanks for the vivid first-hand account. I used to live near  that constituency,  and still work in Greenwich, so like to keep up with news. Disgraceful handling of the event by the Met, and wrong of the 'major' candidates not to attend.  All the best for tomorrow! 

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Posted (edited)

Antics like this and similar thuggery I've personally witnessed over the last 40 years have given me a dissident perspective on Left agitation against Fascists like Moseley in the 30s. Certainly the latter claimed that it was always communist agent provocateurs initiating violence.

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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Can I play the Goat?

I wonder if the issue is that the local police didn't realise that a boring old election meeting would inflame feelings enough to disrupt the meeting and therefore didn't allocate many officers to it. When it got out of hand the few officers there were unable to deal with it and decided to shut the meeting to prevent the situation getting out of hand. 

These days I read reports of how few police officers are on duty to cover large areas or large towns. Given that the individual officers have little in the way of back up then in their place I would probably err on the side of caution.  I suspect a lot of police officers are sympathetic to the opinions we have.

To my mind the fault clearly lies with successive Home Secretaries who have continued a policy of reducing police numbers. Another example of how appeaser May is mismanaging.

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20 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Can I play the Goat?

I wonder if the issue is that the local police didn't realise that a boring old election meeting would inflame feelings enough to disrupt the meeting and therefore didn't allocate many officers to it. When it got out of hand the few officers there were unable to deal with it and decided to shut the meeting to prevent the situation getting out of hand. 

These days I read reports of how few police officers are on duty to cover large areas or large towns. Given that the individual officers have little in the way of back up then in their place I would probably err on the side of caution.  I suspect a lot of police officers are sympathetic to the opinions we have.

To my mind the fault clearly lies with successive Home Secretaries who have continued a policy of reducing police numbers. Another example of how appeaser May is mismanaging.

From the pictures I've seen, there were plenty of police there. They should have moved the demonstrators away from the hall entrance, and arrested the worst-behaved ones.

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2 minutes ago, Anglepoise said:

From the pictures I've seen, there were plenty of police there. They should have moved the demonstrators away from the hall entrance, and arrested the worst-behaved ones.

OK I didn't look at the pictures. I didn't want to spoil my opinion with the facts. (After all I am playing the Goat. )

How about the officers present carried out a Health and Safety assessment and having considered the situation felt the risks were too great so decided to close the meeting as the best course. :ph34r:

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27 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Can I play the Goat?

I wonder if the issue is that the local police didn't realise that a boring old election meeting would inflame feelings enough to disrupt the meeting and therefore didn't allocate many officers to it. When it got out of hand the few officers there were unable to deal with it and decided to shut the meeting to prevent the situation getting out of hand. 

These days I read reports of how few police officers are on duty to cover large areas or large towns. Given that the individual officers have little in the way of back up then in their place I would probably err on the side of caution.  I suspect a lot of police officers are sympathetic to the opinions we have.

To my mind the fault clearly lies with successive Home Secretaries who have continued a policy of reducing police numbers. Another example of how appeaser May is mismanaging.

+1

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Besides yourself, the politicians involved should all be complaining.

I would send each a formal letter pointing out that they have been silenced by a Police Force too inept to arrest the real trouble makers, and asking what they intend to do about it so that you can publish their replies.

It is an offence under the 1908 Public Meeting Act to behave in a way that obstructs the purpose for which the meeting was called.

So, in a sense, nothing new here.

Interesting about the deluded old woman.

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1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Can I play the Goat?

I wonder if the issue is that the local police didn't realise that a boring old election meeting would inflame feelings enough to disrupt the meeting and therefore didn't allocate many officers to it. When it got out of hand the few officers there were unable to deal with it and decided to shut the meeting to prevent the situation getting out of hand. 

These days I read reports of how few police officers are on duty to cover large areas or large towns. Given that the individual officers have little in the way of back up then in their place I would probably err on the side of caution.  I suspect a lot of police officers are sympathetic to the opinions we have.

To my mind the fault clearly lies with successive Home Secretaries who have continued a policy of reducing police numbers. Another example of how appeaser May is mismanaging.

You must be kidding?

9_9

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1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

These days I read reports of how few police officers are on duty to cover large areas or large towns.

We all keep hearing that, but a couple of weeks ago I personally witnessed, on a Sunday night in my provincial town, eight Police vehicles turn up for the arrest of one man.

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1 minute ago, eight said:

We all keep hearing that, but a couple of weeks ago I personally witnessed, on a Sunday night in my provincial town, eight Police vehicles turn up for the arrest of one man.

Quiet night then.

I know what I know from first hand knowledge.

  • Police, Camera, Action
  • Cops With Cameras
  • Nightwatch
  • Road Wars
  • Street Wars
  • Greatest Police Chases
  • River Cops
  • Street Crime UK
  • Traffic Cops
  • Police Interceptors

etc etc

why so many of these type of fly on the wall Policing programmes?

are they just cheap popular TV, or a subtle way of showing people always getting caught for their crimes, to remind us we must behave ourselves?

 

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Imagine this scenario reversed for a second- they would have been moved on, and/or arrested, then described in the press with terms like "far-right" "racist" "fascist" "neo-Nazi" "extreme" "violent" "anti-democratic" "extremist" "mob".

This meeting being shut down is absolutely, and completely unacceptable. The more I think about it, the more I am worried and angered by it.

The Metropolitan Police should be ashamed of their actions last night.

:PissedOff:

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1 hour ago, Anglepoise said:

The Met has 900 officers tasked with monitoring hate crime. Priorities...

 

A reflection of just how unstable that city has become. Inhabitants all angry and ready for a confrontation.

And not just London...of course.....

How long before knives get replaced with guns?  Politicians have a lot to answer for.

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