Surveyor missed nearly £13000 of Damp

[One percent]

Just now, M S E Refugee said:

 

That’s very high up the wall for rising damp. How high exactly does the outside bridge the doc by?  It also all looks newly done, as if the vendors were trying to mask it. In that case, can you go back to the form (can’t remember what it’s called) that they filled in when selling? 

[M S E Refugee]

5 minutes ago, One percent said:

That’s very high up the wall for rising damp. How high exactly does the outside bridge the doc by?  It also all looks newly done, as if the vendors were trying to mask it. In that case, can you go back to the form (can’t remember what it’s called) that they filled in when selling? 

The second picture is where the rendered gable wall is.

[onlyme]

Looks like dot and dab plasterboard in picture 3 - is that downstairs?

Had the place been recently "refurbished"?

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Looks like dot and dab plasterboard in picture 3 - is that downstairs?

Good point. It doesn’t look like rising damp does it. 

[M S E Refugee]

2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Looks like dot and dab plasterboard in picture 3 - is that downstairs?

Yes its dot and dab downstairs next to the window.

[One percent]

3 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

The second picture is the rendered gable wall is.

Is that where they think the tiles are causing the problem?  That’s a simple fix I would think.  Get a roofer in to look 

[M S E Refugee]

6 minutes ago, One percent said:

Is that where they think the tiles are causing the problem?  That’s a simple fix I would think.  Get a roofer in to look 

[One percent]

6 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

Deffo get different opinions. My understanding is that you only need tanking if it is below ground level, like a basement or cellar that is being made habitable (I watch grand design).  That’s clearly not the case here. 

[onlyme]

40 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

Yes its dot and dab downstairs next to the window.

So they replaced significant amount of ground floor wall area and used absorbent method to fix to known damp wall - pillocks as that type of adhesive will just suck the water straight out of outside wall into plasterboard.  Interior you could line wall with DPM, batten and then screw plasterboard to batten and that would be pretty much impermeable.  Need to find out out if external render has completely broken down or if is all down to water ingress at roofline running down behind render / through wall. The render doesn't look too bad TBH no sign of cracks and no obvious patching but difficult with photos and could just be cast with thin cosmetic cost. If you fix the roofline first you MIGHT get lucky and solve the whole problem.

[M S E Refugee]

1 minute ago, onlyme said:

So they replaced significant amount of ground floor wall area and used absorbent method to fix to known damp wall - pillocks as that type of adhesive will just suck the water straight out of outside wall into plasterboard.  Interior you could line wall with DPM, batten and then screw plasterboard to batten and that would be pretty much impermeable.  Need to find out out if external render has completely broken down or if is all down to water ingress at roofline running down behind render / through wall. The render doesn't look too bad TBH no sign of cracks and no obvious patching but difficult with photos and could just be cast with thin cosmetic cost.

Would tanking work also?

[onlyme]

14 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

Would tanking work also?

Well it would if properly laid on and not perforated with fixings, just gobsmacked they used dot dab method with a known damp wall. Ideally what you want though is a non damp wall in the first place otherwise stuff like breakdown of sandstone that you've already had and then general deterioration of mortar will carry on. Really need to identify the main problems and fix those first and see if the wall dries out. Wouldn't use dot and dab on any old building as pretty much all old buildings are damp to a degree, they soak up water but breathe and release it slowly. This is the problem with a render finish as if that is compromised the water has nowhere to go other than start tracking to the inside of the building.

[M S E Refugee]

1 minute ago, onlyme said:

Well it would if properly laid on, just gobsmacked they used dot dab method with a known damp wall. Ideally what you want though is a non damp wall in the first place otherwise stuff like breakdown of sandstone that you've already had and then general deterioration of mortar will carry on. Really need to identify the main problems and fix those first and see if the wall dries out. Wouldn't use dot and dab on any old building as pretty much all old buildings are damp to a degree, they soak up water but breathe and release it slowly. This is the problem with a render finish as if that is compromised the water has nowhere to go other than start tracking to the inside of the building.

The builder that the former owners used has apparently gone bust for the second time in 10 years I have heard from other sources that he wasn't great.

[onlyme]

9 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

The builder that the former owners used has apparently gone bust for the second time in 10 years I have heard from other sources that he wasn't great.

No surprise there then. You want a builder that is familiar with and works mainly with renovating old buildings, totally different beast to modern. Try and find your main problem - that could be at roofline, fix that and then you may get away with sealing the render, not ideal as building won't breathe but it won't with a cements render anyway and if water is not getting in not so much of a problem.

I'd get rid of the concrete path at ground level too (at least a strip)  - I'd lay good money on that being higher than DPC line, water splash and wicking will not help with ground level damp issues, gravel or something porous will prevent splash onto wall and allow water to drain direct to foundation level.

Keen on DIY? Not joking a lot of the work you could do yourself and if intent living there a long time and time rich cash poor and inclination you could learn a lot and save a lot. Rooflien bit leave to roofer but much of rest all doable.

[onlyme]

Is top floor where damp is all lined with plasterboard too?

[onlyme]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

Deffo get different opinions. My understanding is that you only need tanking if it is below ground level, like a basement or cellar that is being made habitable (I watch grand design).  That’s clearly not the case here. 

That's pretty much what I've seen, typical damp - lower one or two feet of ground floor most popular remedy hack off damaged plaster / render up beyond damage, inject wall at DPC line with siliconate type solution and then render/plaster. Rendered builders are a different case though as there is potential for damp at all levels of the house.

[M S E Refugee]

7 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Is top floor where damp is all lined with plasterboard too?

Yes it is but the damp is different as there is no staining the paint is flaking off the plasterboard.

[onlyme]

4 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

Yes it is but the damp is different as there is no staining,the paint is flaking off the plasterboard.

You generally get staining where the waterline is progressing across the board whereas flaking (generally) the majority of the board (back of it basically) is wet and the damp migrating to the front surface behind the paint. You'll have different temps/humidity etc in rooms as well which all change and affect things too.

I'd do some investigating - upstairs for example cut out the top 6 inches of plasterboard and see if you can observe visible damp during rainstorms and find out what is behind the plasterboard.

[No Duff (troll)]

4 hours ago, M S E Refugee said:

<photos>

Sorry to hear about this but you're not alone.  Those photos don't look right, especially the third (moisture ingress via inappropriate dot and dab plasterboard?).  I had a close call with a damp specialist and his tanking.  Paid for it to go in but then ripped it out and boy was it wet and smelly.  Golden rule of damp is to fix the source (leaks, etc).  Need to know the wall build up and what not but impervious external rendering of a solid wall is a big no no.  Same with cement based pointing.  Even worse with a compromised damp course.  Do like with like (e.g. don't cement render a solid or lime based wall, but use lime).  £13,000 just for that sounds high.  Spoken to some local builders?  No point spending a ton on a re-plasterer and decoration for it to come back a few months later.

See this: https://surveyorsnotebook.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/cement-render-entraps-moisture-against-solid-masonry-wall/

And watch this (plenty more on Youtube to compare with yours):

 

PS.  If relevant, maybe no point trying to put a liquid type damp proof course in a stone rubble wall except possibly for mortgage purposes.

PPS: Just saw the gable photo.  Those roof tiles v gable wall look cr*p.  Who the f*ck renders up that far?  No facia and barge boards?  Highly likely to be problematic.  Gable wall render seems OK but is really a no-no if solid wall (maybe even if not).  People up the road had it all hacked off and replaced with siding with an ventilated air gap (subject to building regs).  

 

[No Duff (troll)]

3 hours ago, onlyme said:

I'd get rid of the concrete path at ground level too (at least a strip)  - I'd lay good money on that being higher than DPC line, water splash and wicking will not help with ground level damp issues, gravel or something porous will prevent splash onto wall and allow water to drain direct to foundation level.

Indeed.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain01.htm and scroll down to "Draining towards a building".

This guy is the DBs on paving stuff!

[onlyme]

3 hours ago, No Duff said:

Indeed.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain01.htm and scroll down to "Draining towards a building".

This guy is the DBs on paving stuff!

I'm just starting to do drainage work here, no main sewer and septic tank that drains into neighbour's field (with covenant as house was originally owned by neighbour way back). Some good info in there as also have guttering that needs to be properly drained. Not mentioned in brief scan is that with older houses it is not just the drainage direction but levels all round perimeter of the house, common sequence over 100's of years if cracked/weathered/knackered path or hard standing - slap another few inches on top, end result is ground level around house can raise significantly, a lot of people that think they have rising damp don't, they just have water wicking from content with a surface above the floor level - adjoining walls/garden walls is another common one, where a small air gap or impermeable membrane will sort the problem out.  Along the same lines it is why I'm recommending MSE looks to investigate and sort out roofline problems, it is possible that the render itself will cope if the main problem is the sheer volume  of water getting in at the gable and elsewhere at roof and gutter level. 

[spunko]

How old is the house? Any idea what the mortar is beneath the roughcast?

[onlyme]

5 hours ago, No Duff said:

Sorry to hear about this but you're not alone.  Those photos don't look right, especially the third (moisture ingress via inappropriate dot and dab plasterboard?).  I had a close call with a damp specialist and his tanking.  Paid for it to go in but then ripped it out and boy was it wet and smelly.  Golden rule of damp is to fix the source (leaks, etc).  Need to know the wall build up and what not but impervious external rendering of a solid wall is a big no no.  Same with cement based pointing.  Even worse with a compromised damp course.  Do like with like (e.g. don't cement render a solid or lime based wall, but use lime).  £13,000 just for that sounds high.  Spoken to some local builders?  No point spending a ton on a re-plasterer and decoration for it to come back a few months later.

See this: https://surveyorsnotebook.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/cement-render-entraps-moisture-against-solid-masonry-wall/

And watch this (plenty more on Youtube to compare with yours):

 

PS.  If relevant, maybe no point trying to put a liquid type damp proof course in a stone rubble wall except possibly for mortgage purposes.

PPS: Just saw the gable photo.  Those roof tiles v gable wall look cr*p.  Who the f*ck renders up that far?  No facia and barge boards?  Highly likely to be problematic.  Gable wall render seems OK but is really a no-no if solid wall (maybe even if not).  People up the road had it all hacked off and replaced with siding with an ventilated air gap (subject to building regs).  

 

If it is the youtuber I think it is he is from previous videos he is very much a total traditionalist, all buildings must breathe and no render under any circumstances, I think there are circumstances and installs where it is OK. Look at the video, the low level mortar has obviously broken down, the dreaded concrete path is there and there is a  very visible white salt line rising up form the base of the wall. He doesn't say where the damp is - if all the way up the wall then fair enough the render has failed, if not he is actually dealing wth the wrong problem - which is the ground level, water runoff, wicking and no drip edge on the render. If damp is also rising up the wall itself injecting will help create a damp proof course too if there isn't one, or grind out and install a proper DPC. There are areas in this house where I have injected as it seemed the right thing to do for the location.

Ideally you want this:

and something like this from paving expert - (to be honest unless significant water runoff just a shallow trench filled with gravel and lined with something semi-permeable - like perforated DPC will I suspect give 90% of the results.

[Caravan Monster]

Is it an old building? Is the gable a mass (3' + thick at the bottom, probably stone) wall and are there concrete / screed floors on the ground floor?

[M S E Refugee]

1 hour ago, spunko2010 said:

How old is the house? Any idea what the mortar is beneath the roughcast?

It was built in 1850 and I would assume that underneath the render it has been built with sandstone,brick,slate and cobbles.

45 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

Is it an old building? Is the gable a mass (3' + thick at the bottom, probably stone) wall and are there concrete / screed floors on the ground floor?

Yes the bottom floor is concrete.

[M S E Refugee]

These are the windows on gable end ,I have just noticed last night that these walls that look really thick are in fact plasterboard right along the gable end and it has knocked a more than a foot off the size of the bedroom.