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One percent

Let’s get rid of the moors

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One for @Hopeful

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/27/moors-grouse-shooting-saddleworth-fire-sport-land

What caused the Saddleworth Moor fire? The immediate reason, of course, is the peculiarly hot and dry conditions of the past few weeks. But that may not be the end of the story. Some types of vegetation are much more susceptible to fire than others, and the kind that prevails on Saddleworth Moor was an accident waiting to happen, a human-made tinderbox.

As the environmental campaigner Guy Shrubsole says, the fire sites on the moor correlate closely with places managed for driven grouse shooting: the practice of sending large numbers of red grouse over the heads of people lying in shooting butts who pay – in some cases, thousands of pounds a day – for the privilege. In order to attract such fees, the moors are managed to maximise the number of grouse. This often involves draining boggy ground, and cutting and burning vegetation to maintain a monoculture of low heather. Such an artificial habitat often happens, as the Forestry Commission notes, to be highly susceptible to wildfires.

Were the moors not drained and cleared for grouse shooting, the ground would be wetter and the heather monoculture replaced by a far richer set of habitats, dominated by woodland.

 

surely, if the moors were allowed to become more boggy again and trees and shrubs were allowed to recollonate, (sp?), then it wouldn’t be moorland would it?  

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People shouldn't go deliberately setting moorland on fire, although when it does go up in flames, it grows back with amazing vigour. Will all be right in a couple of years.

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I understand the problem is that when dry peat ignites it takes a substantial amount of water to extinguish it. The solution is to dig up the peat, stick it in 10 litre bags and sell it. I blame Monty Don’s campaign against the use of peat.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Do you have to pay the 5p for the bag the peat comes in?

That’s the double bonus, you get to waste shitloads of plastic without incurring the 5p bag tax and you get to fuck up the environment by scraping off thousands of years of peat. And you make a tidy profit :-)

That’s a triple bonus!

Edited by OurDayWillCome

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2 minutes ago, OurDayWillCome said:

That’s the double bonus, you get to waste shitloads of plastic without incurring the 5p bag tax and you get to fuck up the environment by scraping off thousands of years of peat. And you make a tidy profit :-)

That’s a triple bonus!

Peat is just coal that hasn't grown up yet.

I think lignite is the teenage years.

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Just now, Cunning Plan said:

Peat is just coal that hasn't grown up yet.

I think lignite is the teenage years.

Germans love lignite, wouldn’t surprise me if they are still mining that dirty shit.

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Posted (edited)

 

33 minutes ago, One percent said:

One for @Hopeful

 

surely, if the moors were allowed to become more boggy again and trees and shrubs were allowed to recollonate, (sp?), then it wouldn’t be moorland would it?  

Don't know much about the ecology of moorland, but I think boggyness is central.

Edited by Hopeful

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I’d like to see the moors across Northern England return to a more natural state. The sheep farming industry that keeps it as Moorland makes very little economic sense and the toffs who want to shoot grouse can go to Scotland instead. 

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Just now, Hopeful said:

 

Don't know much about the ecology of moorland, but I think boggyness is central.

Ah, never mind, I thought that this might be your area. Shame as I would like evidence to show that the guardian mono bot bloke was talking shite. I know he is but evidence would be better. 

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Just now, TheBlueCat said:

I’d like to see the moors across Northern England return to a more natural state. The sheep farming industry that keeps it as Moorland makes very little economic sense and the toffs who want to shoot grouse can go to Scotland instead. 

Given the proximity of heavily enriched Northern cities and pikey areas to a lot of the moors, the ‘natural state’ you refer to would probably involve rather more pizza wrappers and fly tipping than you might hope for. There are advantages in having a toff interest in the countryside, they tend to protect it better than councils. An unfortunate truth. 

 

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2 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Given the proximity of heavily enriched Northern cities and pikey areas to a lot of the moors, the ‘natural state’ you refer to would probably involve rather more pizza wrappers and fly tipping than you might hope for. There are advantages in having a toff interest in the countryside, they tend to protect it better than councils. An unfortunate truth. 

 

Ha, that’s true! I grew up right next to the North York Moors by the way so I’m not entirely ignorant on this stuff. 

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cock crowing stone is that saddleworth?

Think over the years plenty of fires off there have blown smoke over the M62 at scammonden havent they?

Should just let it burn, worst is that it destroys oldham maybe milnrow/shaw.

 

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10 hours ago, TheBlueCat said:

I’d like to see the moors across Northern England return to a more natural state. The sheep farming industry that keeps it as Moorland makes very little economic sense and the toffs who want to shoot grouse can go to Scotland instead. 

Is there much grouse farming in these local moors?

They're constantly worried about erosion on the Saddleworth side and have helicopter parties where they drop ton bags of stuff on them.

It stinks today, quite acrid. Windows shut again. At least no ash got this far, is about half a mile away very ashy apparently

We are currently undertaking a very exciting restoration of a 3,000 acre grouse moor at Stalybridge, conveniently located 10 miles East of Manchester.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/27/moors-grouse-shooting-saddleworth-fire-sport-land



I understand that the way to get good new heather growth is to burn the old stuff.

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Were the borders of the UK not open to all and sundry, we would not be required to build huge flammable tower blocks for them to be put in and Grenfell wouldn't have happened. The area of west London could go back to being sustainable pasture and dairy farming land that it was in the early nineteenth century. 

That's about as logical as Monbiot's ramblings about fires on grouse moors. 

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10 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

Were the borders of the UK not open to all and sundry, we would not be required to build huge flammable tower blocks for them to be put in and Grenfell wouldn't have happened. The area of west London could go back to being sustainable pasture and dairy farming land that it was in the early nineteenth century. 

That's about as logical as Monbiot's ramblings about fires on grouse moors. 

Does infuriate me how we have, since the town and country planning act, but especially since the 1980s, built ticky tacky little houses to limit development into the green belt. 

 

How many British people have had to live their entire lives, raise families in shrunken little boxes to preserve the green belt...which will now be built on to house foreigners?

We can concrete over the nation for them, just not for the benefit of our own kith and kin. So much sacrifice made, and for what?

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4 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

 

Does infuriate me how we have, since the town and country planning act, but especially since the 1980s, built ticky tacky little houses to limit development into the green belt.

Malvina Reynolds:

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university,
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and lawyers,
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

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Didn't lizzie the first have much the same idea?!

49 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

I do think the absolute drought since the snow went is a contributory factor though.

I kind of hope there is a big drought, particularly in the south east. Might provoke people into thinking about the scale of population increase there. Nothing much else seems to work.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Malvina Reynolds:

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university,
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and lawyers,
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

Apparently written in 1962 about US housing which is on average maybe 3 to 4 times the size of an average UK house. 

Little boxes - UK people should be lucky and not only several times smaller than the US boxes but on top of that with the littlest little boxes in europe with proposals for them to get even littler.

Edited by twocents

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