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Frank Hovis

Sugar and Alzheimers - Huge impact

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This made me sit up.  Uusually the figures are something like "8% increased risk" but this is far more dramatic.
 

Quote

 

Researchers analysed the diets of 2,226 pensioners and tracked them for an average of seven years.

Those who consumed the most sugar in their drinks were at highest risk, whether it occurred naturally or was added.

OAPs who put more than 2¬Ĺ teaspoons a day in their cuppa were 54 per cent more likely to develop dementia than those who added none.

Sprinkling that amount on cereal or puddings posed the same danger.

People who downed more than half a can of pop a day were 47 per cent more likely to suffer than those who had less than 3¬Ĺ a year. And one small juice a day was enough to increase the risk by 27 per cent.

 

Those are big numbers.  I was feeling very smug as no sugar or fizzy pop for me but I got a kick in the last line as I drinkl a small breakfast apple juice daily thinking it was good for me; well I will cease that. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6848657/sugar-in-tea-increase-alzheimers-disease/

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1 minute ago, snaga said:

2.5 teaspoons is a trivial amount these days, so where the hell do they get enough of a sample of people that don't have that much sugar in one form or another?

I suppose it depends what you eat; I'm not claiming a great diet but I don't eat much in the way of sweet things or processed food and I don't have sugar in my tea or coffee.  I am sure however that I have at least 2.5k teaspoons a day with the fruit juice and the spoonful I put in my homemade bread.

I assume that somebody who has that 2.5 teaspoons in their tea / coffee will generally have a sweet tooth so will be eating sweets, biscuits, tomato ketchup etc.

Of course it's possible that a predisposition to dementa correlates with having a sweet tooth so that it isn't actually the sugar that is causing the higher rates of dementia but rather that dementia-prone brains make the body crave sweet things.

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20 minutes ago, snaga said:

2.5 teaspoons is a trivial amount these days, so where the hell do they get enough of a sample of people that don't have that much sugar in one form or another?

It's probably indicative of a sugar rich diet though. Can't stand even half a spoon of sugar in tea or coffee, all I can taste is sugar.

I think the sugar may not be the problem here but obesity from the sugar. The course of dementia ( which I have observed)  is being out of shape, starting to do things slowly as a result, then morphing into extreme slowness. One pensioner once made a very insightful comment to another in the street.... Mrs X is walking slowly not long  before she is  on her way to alzheimers.

I have seen fit Alzheimer victims but they are rare. The mother in law's favourite expression was I don't do quickly before she went down with dementia and died. Yep do quickly, slowness kills.

Edited by crashmonitor

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17 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

This made me sit up.  Uusually the figures are something like "8% increased risk" but this is far more dramatic.
 

Those are big numbers.  I was feeling very smug as no sugar or fizzy pop for me but I got a kick in the last line as I drinkl a small breakfast apple juice daily thinking it was good for me; well I will cease that. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6848657/sugar-in-tea-increase-alzheimers-disease/

Fruit juice is little better than pop. I've been telling people that for years, but because the government had told them it was "healthy", most people thought that I was crank.

The current state of play is that pretty much all the official dietary advice is bollocks.

Avoid industrial seed oils (sunflower etc.)

Avoid sugar, and minimise carbohydrate.

Eat saturated animal fat.it's not bad for you.

Exercise anaerobically to build muscle mass. i.e. lifting weights etc. rather than jogging.

Insulin sensitivity may possibly have a role in altzheimers, and it may even end up categorised as a form of diabetes.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

It's probably indicative of a sugar rich diet though. Can't stand even half a spoon of sugar in tea or coffee, all I can taste is sugar.

I think the sugar may not be the problem here but obesity from the sugar. The course of dementia ( which I have observed)  is being out of shape, starting to do things slowly as a result, then morphing into extreme slowness. One pensioner once made a very insightful comments to another in the street.... Mrs X is walking slowly not long  before they are on their way to alzheimers.

I have seen fit Alzheimer victims but they are rare. The mother in law's favourite expression was I don't do quickly before she went down with dementia and died. Yep do quickly, slowness kills.

There are skinny oldies with dementia at the care home where missus works.

On a separate note the vegetarian old dear who lives in the village where my Mum lived is now close to 100 years old, still managing on her own, bit more forgetful than before, and dutifully visiting the other "old" folk in the village (often 20-30 years younger than her). So go Spunko and the other veggies on here!

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32 minutes ago, snaga said:

2.5 teaspoons is a trivial amount these days, so where the hell do they get enough of a sample of people that don't have that much sugar in one form or another?

Loads of people who do low carb.

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5 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There are skinny oldies with dementia at the care home where missus works.

On a separate note the vegetarian old dear who lives in the village where my Mum lived is now close to 100 years old, still managing on her own, bit more forgetful than before, and dutifully visiting the other "old" folk in the village (often 20-30 years younger than her). So go Spunko and the other veggies on here!

Yep I nearly did mention the skinnies too, but  they may have been bigger in middle age at the outset. My mother in law went from big to skinny with the disease. Also a frail thin person with osteoporosis could develop the disease again from lack of movement and exercise.

I do believe fitness is the main preventative measure.

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5 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Yep I nearly did mention the skinnies too, but  they may have been bigger in middle age at the outset. My mother in law went from big to skinny with the disease. Also a frail thin person with osteoporosis could develop the disease again from lack of movement and exercise.

I do believe fitness is the main preventative measure.

I think dementia is largely genetic. My grandfather smoked 30 fags a day, ate a full english breakfast every day and had a massive stroke aged 79, then got cancer and had to go into a hospice but survived for two years, lived to be 86 with a mind as sharp as ever. Never went the slightest bit demented. Exercise and healthy living might hold back mild dementia and make it less likely to have a stroke (which can cause dementia) but I don't think it stops things like Alzheimer's.

Edited by Austin Allegro

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This is one of the main reasons I have given up any free sugars. I am hoping that and being a vegetarian will stop me getting Alzheimers which has affected relatives on both my parents side. For anyone interested I recommend 'That Sugar Film' which is very thought provoking. 

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26 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

It's probably indicative of a sugar rich diet though. Can't stand even half a spoon of sugar in tea or coffee, all I can taste is sugar.

I think the sugar may not be the problem here but obesity from the sugar. The course of dementia ( which I have observed)  is being out of shape, starting to do things slowly as a result, then morphing into extreme slowness. One pensioner once made a very insightful comment to another in the street.... Mrs X is walking slowly not long  before she is  on her way to alzheimers.

I have seen fit Alzheimer victims but they are rare. The mother in law's favourite expression was I don't do quickly before she went down with dementia and died. Yep do quickly, slowness kills.

My thoughts as well that it could be the obesity, but I would assume this was factored in the research? Also lifestyle differences. I recall 30 years ago being told that Tea contained aluminium and may cause dementia, not sure if that ever proved to be correct. Even so, I'm sure aluminium is bad for you so I replaced all our pots and pans with good quality stainless steel items (make sure the handes are stainless as well) and they last a lifetime.

At the old peeps home the our Nan's were at one of them was the oldest there at over 100 years old. She was a tiny thing and ate sparrow sized portions and never had desserts, well before she become frail so I assume she ate that way most of her life. You just don't see very old (90 +) and obese together very often.

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Yay more health doom pron from funded research.

Dimentia runs in the females on my mums side. Currently the older generations that are still "alive", my gran and her two sisters have it. My mum has always had personality issues, but now nearing 60 it's getting worse. It's going to be a steep decline from here on out. Thinking about it, all my aunties on that side are bat shit crazy. I doubt them eating veggies will help the likelyhood of not getting dimentia.

With that said, live your life. You've been dealt the cards you have, you may or may not increase the likelihood of all kinds of illnesses. Not worth worying about.

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I know a couple of blokes my age who seem to be aging faster than the rest of us; obese and generally knackered - are both big soft drink drinkers. One of them works with me and I guess he hammers in two liters during the working day.

I think the key here is not sugar, or fat, which exist in nature, but refined foods that concentrate them - i.e. sweets and oils.

I even think starchy carbohydrates as found in nature are fine e.g. sweet potatoes. I'm adding a bit of Salmon to my diet as I'm losing too much weight and hoping the omega 3's in it might help my mental health.

Saw a big line of mothers with their kids on my way to work this morning, must have been 10 of them all in a big line....each one of them obese. Each of them except one was a migrant (I'm unsure of the nationality - but it's the one where the women are all hugely obese - would this be Romanian?). The one white woman though, was even more obese again to the point where I was amazed that she could walk.

I also saw a Romanian family over the weekend with the fattest toddler I've ever seen in my life. It was a sad sight; I'd never seen a young child so fat before.

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Study doesn't differentiate between the various type of sugar so pinch of salt etc. How can they equate 2.5 teaspoons of granulated refined white cane sugar with 2.5 teaspoons of naturally occurring sugars inside an orange?

It is, excuse the pun, like comparing apples and oranges.

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19 minutes ago, snaga said:

It could be as you say, another factor, people that don't have a lot of sugar in their diet, probably share a lot of other traits.

No, it's actually the sugar/carbs - you can halt the progress of dementia, and sometimes even reverse it, with a very low carb diet.

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2 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Study doesn't differentiate between the various type of sugar so pinch of salt etc. How can they equate 2.5 teaspoons of granulated refined white cane sugar with 2.5 teaspoons of naturally occurring sugars inside an orange?

It is, excuse the pun, like comparing apples and oranges.

The sugar from the orange juice is probably worse because it's all fructose rather than just half. 

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44 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Of course it's possible that a predisposition to dementa correlates with having a sweet tooth so that it isn't actually the sugar that is causing the higher rates of dementia but rather that dementia-prone brains make the body crave sweet things.

I came on here to say this, but youve already done so. Thumbs up.

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Soft drinks, particulalry diet soft drinks, correlate very well with obesity in my anecdotal experience.

But again I'm not sure of the cause; does being fat make you crave the artificial sweetness of soft drinks, or does the artifical sweetener directly create the weight by the body's response to it meaning that the person is then hungrier?

I don't think I'm being pedantic with that point.  As an example about eight years ago I started doing a lot of exercise, and got very fit and lost a lot of weight.  I did not consciously change what I ate and did not go on a diet.   However through this big fitness regime what I wanted to eat changed.  I craved meat and veg, big steak in Wetherspoons ideal, but I went off chips, bread, crisps.  So I was eating (IMO) a very healthy diet because I was fit rather than being fit because I was eating a healthy diet; because I had made no effort to change what I ate.

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10 minutes ago, null; said:

My thoughts as well that it could be the obesity, but I would assume this was factored in the research? Also lifestyle differences. I recall 30 years ago being told that Tea contained aluminium and may cause dementia, not sure if that ever proved to be correct. Even so, I'm sure aluminium is bad for you so I replaced all our pots and pans with good quality stainless steel items (make sure the handes are stainless as well) and they last a lifetime.

At the old peeps home the our Nan's were at one of them was the oldest there at over 100 years old. She was a tiny thing and ate sparrow sized portions and never had desserts, well before she become frail so I assume she ate that way most of her life. You just don't see very old (90 +) and obese together very often.

That could be because pre-1980s obesity was pretty rare in the UK, not just because fatties don't live as long as normal people. 

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Interesting, with the usual caveat that correlation is not causation.

The Sun seems to equate dementure with Alzheimer's. Alzheimers is only one form of dementia.

And as others point out, if sucralose is implicated, what about fructose, glucose, etc?

 

BTW there was something on the wireless today about some types of dementure being detectable early through an eye test, but I didn't catch any details.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Soft drinks, particulalry diet soft drinks, correlate very well with obesity in my anecdotal experience.

But again I'm not sure of the cause; does being fat make you crave the artificial sweetness of soft drinks, or does the artifical sweetener directly create the weight by the body's response to it meaning that the person is then hungrier?

I don't think I'm being pedantic with that point.  As an example about eight years ago I started doing a lot of exercise, and got very fit and lost a lot of weight.  I did not consciously change what I ate and did not go on a diet.   However through this big fitness regime what I wanted to eat changed.  I craved meat and veg, big steak in Wetherspoons ideal, but I went off chips, bread, crisps.  So I was eating (IMO) a very healthy diet because I was fit rather than being fit because I was eating a healthy diet; because I had made no effort to change what I ate.

Artificial sweeteners make you produce insulin which lowers your blood sugar which makes you eat roughly the calories your body was expecting from the fake sugar.

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9 minutes ago, This Time said:

The sugar from the orange juice is probably worse because it's all fructose rather than just half. 

I don't think that sugar from a piece of fruit, bound to the fiber and nutrients in that fruit is gonna do any harm (in moderation; I think high-fruit diets are mental). Of course some individuals might have a certin response to it - for example my dad's a diabetic and can't eat oatmeal because it sends his blood sugar through the roof.

However regardless of that, I still suspect that the that processed sugar intake is extra-bad not just because of the sugar itself but also because of what it tends to be bound to - i.e. trans fats and all that nastiness.

It amazes me that the obesity epidemic that I see getting worse from one year to the next isn't front page news. It amazes me how essentially nobody seems to care too much.

I bought some veg in Tesco the other day and as I was putting it in my bag I realized that all the food in my field of vision was processed garbage - biscuits, chocolates, crisps, ice cream. Even these new expensive 'protein' bars that they're charging 2.50 for which are still processed shite. Only a small percentage of what's in most supermarkets are things that people actually have any business eating.

Edited by JoeDavola

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14 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Soft drinks, particulalry diet soft drinks, correlate very well with obesity in my anecdotal experience.

But again I'm not sure of the cause; does being fat make you crave the artificial sweetness of soft drinks, or does the artifical sweetener directly create the weight by the body's response to it meaning that the person is then hungrier?

I don't think I'm being pedantic with that point.  As an example about eight years ago I started doing a lot of exercise, and got very fit and lost a lot of weight.  I did not consciously change what I ate and did not go on a diet.   However through this big fitness regime what I wanted to eat changed.  I craved meat and veg, big steak in Wetherspoons ideal, but I went off chips, bread, crisps.  So I was eating (IMO) a very healthy diet because I was fit rather than being fit because I was eating a healthy diet; because I had made no effort to change what I ate.

Yes, logically speaking I don't think that diet soft drinks should cause people to get fat, because they are low in calories and fat. I suspect that for many of them, it's a correlation thing - those that drink lots of soft drink eat garbage alongside it and don't exercise. I do think things like aspartame are total poison that in 100 years science will figure out we had no business consuming at all.

But the two blokes I know who are in really bad shape and drink loads of soft drink don't seem to eat enough food to justify how fat they are - that is unless they go home and gorge in the evenings.

It's odd to me that science doesn't seem to have solved this problem despite the fact that it's pretty much destroying the health of the western world. Every other animal on earth has 'it's food' - the food it was meant to naturally eat, and can do so without blimping up. Humans must have the same - even if it's a wider range of food than most animals.

As I've said I think the answer is unprocessed veg with some healthy meats, and I don't think natural carbs are a problem. But I also can't discount the huge success that people like @This Time have had on low-carb diets either; so there may be some people that react to certain foods in different ways.

It's an interesting topic - IMHO more people should be more interested in it than they currently seem to be.

Edited by JoeDavola

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