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spygirl

Pushy parents; tragic kids

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-45023187

Ive met a few kids who have been pushed into minor sports.

Its always their parents pushing them.

My kids have shown no interest in sports. The only sports interaction we have, as dadlad, is him telling me to stop swearing at NewU.

'The father of British snowboarder Ellie Soutter who died on her 18th birthday believes she could have been struggling with the pressure of competing in high-level sport.

Tony Soutter told BBC South East he had lost his best friend, his "total buddy" and his rock.

Ellie "wanted to be the best" and not "let anybody down", he said.

UK Sport said it was working with partners to provide appropriate support for athletes.

'One little thing'

Speaking publicly for the first time since his daughter's death on 25 July, Mr Soutter said he believes his daughter's history of mental health issues coupled with the pressure of elite performance may have contributed to her ending her life in Les Gets in the French Alps.

"She wanted to be the best," he said. "She didn't want to let anybody down.

"Unfortunately it all came about from missing a flight which then meant she didn't go training with the GB squad.

"She felt she'd let them down, felt she'd let me down and just tragically it just takes one silly little thing like that to tip someone over the edge, because there's a lot of pressure on children."'

She not his rock, bets buddy, whatever. Shes his kid FFS.

For someone claiming to be 'bets buddy' he does not seem to have been in touch with her much.

And its not like snow boarding is something like football - Dad, Im just of outside to arse around on my snowboard before tea.

Any UK kid doing snowboarding will have a parent pay a *lot* of money for it.

Ill go out on a limb and say her Dad was probably a big  cunt.

 

 

 

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Not necessarily; it could have been a Ton Daley type relationship with his Dad where he was a young boy seeking repeated approval from his father by achieving at diving.

I got the impression that he was very encouraged and praised rather than pressured.

This may have been the same.

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15 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-45023187

Ive met a few kids who have been pushed into minor sports.

Its always their parents pushing them.

My kids have shown no interest in sports. The only sports interaction we have, as dadlad, is him telling me to stop swearing at NewU.

'The father of British snowboarder Ellie Soutter who died on her 18th birthday believes she could have been struggling with the pressure of competing in high-level sport.

Tony Soutter told BBC South East he had lost his best friend, his "total buddy" and his rock.

Ellie "wanted to be the best" and not "let anybody down", he said.

UK Sport said it was working with partners to provide appropriate support for athletes.

'One little thing'

Speaking publicly for the first time since his daughter's death on 25 July, Mr Soutter said he believes his daughter's history of mental health issues coupled with the pressure of elite performance may have contributed to her ending her life in Les Gets in the French Alps.

"She wanted to be the best," he said. "She didn't want to let anybody down.

"Unfortunately it all came about from missing a flight which then meant she didn't go training with the GB squad.

"She felt she'd let them down, felt she'd let me down and just tragically it just takes one silly little thing like that to tip someone over the edge, because there's a lot of pressure on children."'

She not his rock, bets buddy, whatever. Shes his kid FFS.

For someone claiming to be 'bets buddy' he does not seem to have been in touch with her much.

And its not like snow boarding is something like football - Dad, Im just of outside to arse around on my snowboard before tea.

Any UK kid doing snowboarding will have a parent pay a *lot* of money for it.

Ill go out on a limb and say her Dad was probably a big  cunt.

 

 

 

Very strange interview; something's not right.

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22 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Not necessarily; it could have been a Ton Daley type relationship with his Dad where he was a young boy seeking repeated approval from his father by achieving at diving.

I got the impression that he was very encouraged and praised rather than pressured.

This may have been the same.

Well, Tom did not top himself if/when he missed he plane.

This poor girl did.

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Not sure about the overall premise - I got into cycling and cross country running (still cycle) despite no interest from parents.

My daughters both got into kayaking (now dropped it though, never took it too seriously) despite no interest from us.

But yes, pushy parents are rife in life and are a problem. Every other middle classed parent wants their kid to be the next Mozart. Wankers.

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This is a very sad story -- made all the more complex by the press' insistence on not calling it out as suicide.  

But, more generally:  kids have a hard time, both trying to find out who they are and putting up with psychological pressure from parents.  If they're lucky the parental pressure is just so that they can have something to show off about; if unlucky, because the parents are trying to fix some sort of 'mistake' or 'missed opportunity' that was the reason they didn't make it in life.

It is a difficult balance.  On the one hand you want to ensure that whatever talents they have are taken advantage of; on the other, 'being and remaining at least sort-of happy' is (should be) the main goal for your children as they grow into adulthood.  There's no point in pushing anything if the child is unhappy., no matter how many medals are on the table.

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2 minutes ago, dgul said:

This is a very sad story -- made all the more complex by the press' insistence on not calling it out as suicide.  

But, more generally:  kids have a hard time, both trying to find out who they are and putting up with psychological pressure from parents.  If they're lucky the parental pressure is just so that they can have something to show off about; if unlucky, because the parents are trying to fix some sort of 'mistake' or 'missed opportunity' that was the reason they didn't make it in life.

It is a difficult balance.  On the one hand you want to ensure that whatever talents they have are taken advantage of; on the other, 'being and remaining at least sort-of happy' is (should be) the main goal for your children as they grow into adulthood.  There's no point in pushing anything if the child is unhappy., no matter how many medals are on the table.

The press are doing the right thing in not reporting suicides esp. of kids.

 

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8 minutes ago, Melchett said:

Not sure about the overall premise - I got into cycling and cross country running (still cycle) despite no interest from parents.

My daughters both got into kayaking (now dropped it though, never took it too seriously) despite no interest from us.

But yes, pushy parents are rife in life and are a problem. Every other middle classed parent wants their kid to be the next Mozart. Wankers.

Yeah, they should take the kids to the park and just stare at their phones like proper parents.

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6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The press are doing the right thing in not reporting suicides esp. of kids.

 

She was 18 though, no longer a child. Call a spade a spade, I don't want the meeja to lie to me anymore than they already do.

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The problem with much of this parental pushing, rather than support, into particular areas is that as a child you don't understand the complexity of life as an adult so it is for the adult to try to give you some balance rather than just pushing you further into it.

If you neglect, say, friends or exams in order to excel at something in particular you may become a local celebrity with the odd news story about you but as you get older you cease to be of such interest, the something may not pay enough (if anything) and you end up in some low wage job talking about glory days.

If this poor girl had been in the verge of topping herself and didn't she would look back aged forty and think "Why on earth did I think that mattered so much that I nearly killed myself?".  Sadly there is no such opportunity for reflection.

 

Here's a prime example who I first saw on Fantasy Football when he'd signed go Ajax of the encouraged childhood obsession turning into disappointed adulthood:

Luke "Sonny" Pike (born 1983/1984)[1]is an English former footballer who became famous at a young age for his tremendous talent which saw him being compared to other famous stars such as Diego Maradona and George Best.[2

Pike's talent was present from an early age and led to his signature for Dutch side Ajax at the age of only seven.[3]Pike was playing for the Leyton Orientyouth team at the time.[4] He was described by football magazine WSC as a player who, "had a lot of skill, could pass it and was a nice player, but he lacked pace."[4]

However, the pressure on Pike led to both his personal mental breakdown in 2000 and the collapse of his parents' marriage.[2][3] Pike's collapse has been used as a warning to other young athletes, such as Cherno Samba and Rhain Davis.[5]

After leaving Ajax, Pike returned to England and played non-league football with teams including Stevenage Borough, Barnet, Enfield, Waltham Forest and Dryburgh Saints, all under his birth name of Luke Pike.[4]

 

Some sources state that after retiring from football, Pike attended the University of Dundee,[3] however Pike himself stated in a 2016 interview that this was not true. At the time of the interview he was working as a taxi driver in London, having previously trained as a carpenter.[6]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Pike

 

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4 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

She was 18 though, no longer a child. Call a spade a spade, I don't want the meeja to lie to me anymore than they already do.

I've read "apparent suicide" more than once in the mainstream press; they can't be more definitive until the inquest finishes.

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7 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

She was 18 though, no longer a child. Call a spade a spade, I don't want the meeja to lie to me anymore than they already do.

No. Not lying. Just holding bck a bit.

They do it for kids. They do it for adult suicides.

Its just to stop some hysteria/fuss and not give some pother poor fucker ideas.

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9 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The press are doing the right thing in not reporting suicides esp. of kids.

 

But they are reporting it; giving all the information to make it clear that it is suicide, but not actually saying it.  I suppose that there might be a 'internal memo' at news companies saying don't report child-suicides, but the approach in this story isn't helpful. 

Frankly, they'd be better off calling it as it is and then allowing a discussion about the pressures of child-anything (other than being a child).  AFAICT The statistics aren't particularly good for any child that's been made into something at a young age; music, sports, whatever.

[Sadly, the father is actually instigating this discussion, but blaming everyone else other than the parent -- they're the ones that should be best placed to say 'we've all had a chat and she's not going to be competing today'.]

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13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

The problem with much of this parental pushing, rather than support, into particular areas is that as a child you don't understand the complexity of life as an adult so it is for the adult to try to give you some balance rather than just pushing you further into it.

If you neglect, say, friends or exams in order to excel at something in particular you may become a local celebrity with the odd news story about you but as you get older you cease to be of such interest, the something may not pay enough (if anything) and you end up in some low wage job talking about glory days.

That's the real problem in a nutshell.There's a spectrum of pushiness, and almost all parents have the hubris to "know" that they have the balance right, even the stereotypical crazed tiger mums in Shanghai or the neglectful, self-obsessed, junkie mums in Runcorn.  

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There’s a huge difference between pushing your kids to give something a go in the hope that it might interest them and sitting on them day after day to get to the elite level of something. 

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5 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Not necessarily; it could have been a Ton Daley type relationship with his Dad where he was a young boy seeking repeated approval from his father by achieving at diving.

I got the impression that he was very encouraged and praised rather than pressured.

This may have been the same.

Exactly. We don't know precisely what happened here and the OP blasts out like he's a bloomin authority. FFS she's barely cold. Poor kid!

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8 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

There’s a huge difference between pushing your kids to give something a go in the hope that it might interest them and sitting on them day after day to get to the elite level of something. 

Tell that to Judy Murray or Richard Williams or Yuri Sharapova. I would happily push them, but sadly my kids show very little interest in tennis. Mine like competitive swimming, and there's no realistic career there.

Regardless this is all a bit of a red herring IMO, for an 18 year old peer pressure outweighs parental pressure by several orders of magnitude.

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2 hours ago, JackieO said:

Exactly. We don't know precisely what happened here and the OP blasts out like he's a bloomin authority. FFS she's barely cold. Poor kid!

Dad does set off my spidey senses too TBH.

Understandably close relatives get a pass in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy but it's probably when their behaviour should be most closely scrutinised.

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8 hours ago, Anglepoise said:

Very strange interview; something's not right.

I did find it odd that he was quick to put something up on Facebook before she was even cold regarding being joined by those that knew her to raise a glass to her. You can see it in the link below 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/ellie-soutters-father-believes-missing-13011923

The last thing I’d be doing, if it was my kid,  is updating my Facebook status. 

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7 minutes ago, Battenberg said:

The last thing I’d be doing, if it was my kid,  is updating my Facebook status. 

Or raising a glass for that matter

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30 minutes ago, Battenberg said:

I did find it odd that he was quick to put something up on Facebook before she was even cold regarding being joined by those that knew her to raise a glass to her. You can see it in the link below 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/ellie-soutters-father-believes-missing-13011923

The last thing I’d be doing, if it was my kid,  is updating my Facebook status. 

Brendan Cox Syndrome

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3 hours ago, Battenberg said:

I did find it odd that he was quick to put something up on Facebook before she was even cold regarding being joined by those that knew her to raise a glass to her. You can see it in the link below 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/ellie-soutters-father-believes-missing-13011923

The last thing I’d be doing, if it was my kid,  is updating my Facebook status. 

 

3 hours ago, Panther said:

Or raising a glass for that matter

 

That post is a most odd reaction

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My guess is that many people of all ages contemplate suicide because of two major reasons, they currently feel they have nothing to live for or feel that they can’t cope with the current reality of their life. Those two reasons encompass a myriad of scenarios 

Suicide is nothing new. IMO, and my guess, many many people will face suicidal thoughts in life. Most people are too scared to enact the deed or the thought passes quickly.......other thoughts replace the self destructive mode of thinking due to self motivation or something from outside the self promoting an uplift in mood..

I’m sorry that the girl in this story ended her own life. Only she knows why she chose on intense reflection? to reject life or perhaps she done it in a moment after taking alcohol or drugs? or felt so broken with no drugs and unable to cope ended it? I don’t know the answer.

Suicide is a taboo discussion but I’m not sure what one can say? The best idea I can think of is to promote the idea that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Even that wouldn’t work though for someone who has experienced hell on earth through whatever personal experiences they endured for years that didn’t fit with their expectations.

Unfortunately suicide will always appeal to some and I doubt there is anything much that can be done because for a human being life is a rollercoaster predicated on personal luck, i.e. a country with policy supporting good life outcomes, local communities, supportive family, making good friends, finding a job you like or can tolerate doing to pay living expenses, having some spare money to pursue interests, days out or travelling further. Alternatively, living in a world with no borders, local community doesn’t matter, supportive family, how many good lifelong friends can you make if you have no local community starting place?, a job ...what’s that?, plenty of money, not a problem the world’s my oyster to explore!

The point I’m trying to make is that suicide is not really prevalent in any  particular demographic of person.

However I do find it bizarre that the father of this girl put up a Facebook post and raised a glass while contemplating that his daughter topped herself. I’m not a Facebook, Twitter etc or general internet person so unable to get a handle on why anyone would behave that way.

Maybe just his way of coping?

Overall I find it sad though reading that a young girl who had experienced exciting things in life would end her life.

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