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Game_of_Homes

Northamptonshire council in the red

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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/01/northamptonshire-councillors-discuss-drastic-cuts-to-stem-crisis

Quote

The council is to hold an extraordinary meeting on Wednesday evening to discuss how it will approach reductions to services to try to tackle a financial crisis regarded by experts as “unparalleled in modern times”.

Is this the future of councils? I can envision a future where council tax payers will be paying more and more council tax merely to pay the wages/pension of employees without actually getting any services provided for.

Wonder how much the Council CE gets paid?

Edited by Game_of_Homes

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26 minutes ago, Horrified Onlooker said:

This may be a naive question, but surely there is a minimum level of service provision at which the pension guarantees become null and void? Otherwise we end up paying council taxes simply to keep the mediocre former council staff in clover?

i think pensions could end up being means tested,ie you might loose the normal one if your private pension beats it.

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5 minutes ago, Game_of_Homes said:

Is this the future of councils? I can envision a future where council tax payers will be paying more and more council tax merely to pay the wages/pension of employees without actually getting any services provided.

In Wales this is being tackled in the traditional way. By talking about it at length for decades then doing nothing.

One plan is to reduce councils, initially by around 60% by a combination of mergers and restructuring.

Ultimately this should produce around six consolidated super-councils, three for North and Mid-Wales, three for the South.

Over time further efficiencies should allow centralisation as one large Council for Wales.

Being Wales, this will fail, eventually being taken over by the Welsh Assembly Government to be run from Cardiff. This in itself will prove such a disaster that the whole Welsh Assembly will be abolished and everything will be centralised in London, run by Westminster.

The fact is the present systems of local government are simply too expensive.

One of the pressing problems is the lost income from town centres. The abandoning by retailers, the knock on loss of parking revenue, litter warden fines etc.

We can't afford the duplication, we can't underwrite pension liability. There are too many working  until 55 or less, but drawing expensive pensions until death, could be another 50 years.

There will be massive reductions in services, with substantial increases in Council Tax, leading to huge rises in non-payment. We will then be hit with an online sales tax to help out.

So yes. We'll keep paying and will receive next to nothing for it. The longer they delay councils being scrapped the worse it will be.

Thatcher wanted to do it in the eighties.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Horrified Onlooker said:

This may be a naive question, but surely there is a minimum level of service provision at which the pension guarantees become null and void? Otherwise we end up paying council taxes simply to keep the mediocre former council staff in clover?

Statutory Duties of councils (have fun):

https://data.gov.uk/dataset/01171494-e40b-463f-9967-56d158412321/statutory-duties-placed-on-local-government

This is largely why local councils need to be nationalised. It is daft making smaller organisations have to comply with all that legislation. The legislation is national so the enforcement and compliance should be controlled nationally also.

 

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3 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

stoke council is always sniffing around surgesting mergers with newcastle/staffs moorlands council both are far better ran and have assests to steal or sell.

They should.

If we have a mayor for GM then presumably we could cope with one council for the whole thing.

It's the pensions what kill them.
That and the caring for the elderly.
Don't like to keep blaming one segment... 

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14 minutes ago, Horrified Onlooker said:

This may be a naive question, but surely there is a minimum level of service provision at which the pension guarantees become null and void? Otherwise we end up paying council taxes simply to keep the mediocre former council staff in clover?

There needs to be a way of letting public services go under and restarting.

LA pension are, legally, meant to be fully funded.

Any LA dipping into current funding for pensions needs liwuisating.

Simple - reduce all pensions above 25k by 30%

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It was a red pill moment for me about eight years ago talking to northants council rights of way. I had phoned them to ask why a right of way had been closed and when it was likely to re open. The chap I spoke to was very chatty. The right of way, an old drovers road, was closed because the council had taken it upon themselves to uphold stupidly high standards of public safety and until the budget was available to roadstone the several mile stretch (it had never been surfaced since time immemorial), they had to close it for fear that someone could slip and sue the council. He then openly and unprompted said that they had to pay their pensions first before spending money on council works O.o I had always had my suspicions about those with access to the public purse, but had never expected to hear it confirmed so blatantly.

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8 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

In Wales this is being tackled in the traditional way. By talking about it at length for decades then doing nothing.

One plan is to reduce councils, initially by around 60% by a combination of mergers and restructuring.

Ultimately this should produce around six consolidated super-councils, three for North and Mid-Wales, three for the South.

Over time further efficiencies should allow centralisation as one large Council for Wales.

Being Wales, this will fail, eventually being taken over by the Welsh Assembly Government to be run from Cardiff. This in itself will prove such a disaster that the whole Welsh Assembly will be abolished and everything will be centralised in London, run by Westminster.

The fact is the present systems of local government are simply too expensive.

One of the pressing problems is the lost income from town centres. The abandoning by retailers, the knock on loss of parking revenue, litter warden fines etc.

We can't afford the duplication, we can't underwrite pension liability. There are too many working  until 55 or less, but drawing expensive pensions until death, could be another 50 years.

There will be massive reductions in services, with substantial increases in Council Tax, leading to huge rises in non-payment. We will then be hit with an online sales tax to help out.

So yes. We'll keep paying and will receive next to nothing for it. The longer they delay councils being scrapped the worse it will be.

Thatcher wanted to do it in the eighties.

 

 

As publuc pension vecomeolitical - Why am i paying for no services ?

The dolution will be political - Tax payers alleiance - No to ctax with no services.

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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

There needs to be a way of letting public services go under and restarting.

LA pension are, legally, meant to be fully funded.

Any LA dipping into current funding for pensions needs liwuisating.

Simple - reduce all pensions above 25k by 30%

Is that a legal term?  o.O

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25 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

They should.

If we have a mayor for GM then presumably we could cope with one council for the whole thing.

It's the pensions what kill them.
That and the caring for the elderly.
Don't like to keep blaming one segment... 

stokes very badly ran the others arnt,it would be like leting a heroin adict run a pharmacy.

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Hopefully the pack of cards is about starting to fall, It cannot continue, the value in what we are getting for our taxes is abismal. 

Local government is just so inefficient with huge amounts of duplication between councils that aren’t very far apart. Even the very nature of council tax collection and administration itself is so inefficient. 

I work in a big company spread around the country, we don’t have directors, heads of and senior managers for every department possible in every location like local government does because they operate in their own silo. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

In Wales this is being tackled in the traditional way. By talking about it at length for decades then doing nothing.

One plan is to reduce councils, initially by around 60% by a combination of mergers and restructuring.

Ultimately this should produce around six consolidated super-councils, three for North and Mid-Wales, three for the South.

Over time further efficiencies should allow centralisation as one large Council for Wales.

Being Wales, this will fail, eventually being taken over by the Welsh Assembly Government to be run from Cardiff. This in itself will prove such a disaster that the whole Welsh Assembly will be abolished and everything will be centralised in London, run by Westminster.

The fact is the present systems of local government are simply too expensive.

One of the pressing problems is the lost income from town centres. The abandoning by retailers, the knock on loss of parking revenue, litter warden fines etc.

We can't afford the duplication, we can't underwrite pension liability. There are too many working  until 55 or less, but drawing expensive pensions until death, could be another 50 years.

There will be massive reductions in services, with substantial increases in Council Tax, leading to huge rises in non-payment. We will then be hit with an online sales tax to help out.

So yes. We'll keep paying and will receive next to nothing for it. The longer they delay councils being scrapped the worse it will be.

Thatcher wanted to do it in the eighties.

 

 

Best eaxmple of duplication-

Redcar

Mboro

Stockton

Hartlepool

Durham

Councils all with a 30 mile radius.

All bloated, alll employing idiot family members, all shit.

The idea that LA gyarantee some employment is crap. Tgey drive budinesses away with greecy, money sucking schemes.

2 minutes ago, One percent said:

Is that a legal term?  o.O

Liquidating!

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28 minutes ago, sarahbell said:


That and the caring for the elderly.
Don't like to keep blaming one segment... 

stoke will almost certanly have a far higher number of old folks in care pro rata wize that get free care.for my council it would be good ie sell all the farms that moorlands council rents out etc,maybe sell it to developers who knows.for the other councils it would be a disaster 

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1 hour ago, stokiescum said:

ticking time bomb,no matter how dire things get the last thing to go will be the insane pensions

It always is.

The last place I worked they had a redundancy round, the few (good) people made redundant could easily be afforded by a small pay cut at the top, which I suggested and I immediately became a pariah. I'd had enough by that time anyway, so I made sure my name was added to the list and I saved somebody else - given the management however, I doubt the person i saved was that grateful

Edited by Hopeful

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19 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

It was a red pill moment for me about eight years ago talking to northants council rights of way. I had phoned them to ask why a right of way had been closed and when it was likely to re open. The chap I spoke to was very chatty. The right of way, an old drovers road, was closed because the council had taken it upon themselves to uphold stupidly high standards of public safety and until the budget was available to roadstone the several mile stretch (it had never been surfaced since time immemorial), they had to close it for fear that someone could slip and sue the council. He then openly and unprompted said that they had to pay their pensions first before spending money on council works O.o I had always had my suspicions about those with access to the public purse, but had never expected to hear it confirmed so blatantly.

You likely spoke to an agency temp. (That was my own red pill a decade and a half ago!)

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Maybe councils do too much? I've never really been convinced that councils should run social services as opposed to the NHS. To me councils should really just be running bin services/ repairing roads/ schools etc.

I think thought has to be given as to the best way of looking after the vulnernable. Maybe giving vulnerable people their own homes isn't the best way? Maybe it would be cheaper keeping them in small hospitals? As I've said before, my line manager had an autistic son that had his own house and had 24/7 care. Maybe he should have been in a home where carers could have looked after more people.... 

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5 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Maybe councils do too much? I've never really been convinced that councils should run social services as opposed to the NHS. To me councils should really just be running bin services/ repairing roads/ schools etc.

I think thought has to be given as to the best way of looking after the vulnernable. Maybe giving vulnerable people their own homes isn't the best way? Maybe it would be cheaper keeping them in small hospitals? As I've said before, my line manager had an autistic son that had his own house and had 24/7 care. Maybe he should have been in a home where carers could have looked after more people.... 

Oaps should be kept in a basic, warm building.

Not a hospital.

Not a hotrl at tax payers expense.

They can stay 4 to a room.

If tgry want their own room thrn psy for it.

Oaps have voted to cut young people housing. Like them have some shit back.

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27 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Maybe councils do too much? I've never really been convinced that councils should run social services as opposed to the NHS. To me councils should really just be running bin services/ repairing roads/ schools etc.

I think thought has to be given as to the best way of looking after the vulnernable. Maybe giving vulnerable people their own homes isn't the best way? Maybe it would be cheaper keeping them in small hospitals? As I've said before, my line manager had an autistic son that had his own house and had 24/7 care. Maybe he should have been in a home where carers could have looked after more people.... 

one of the biggest wastes is  single pensioners rateling around in 3 bed houses that they have been in 50 years or more,they should be rehomed and a family put in,but no political party has the balls.i try and stay away from subjects like this in the pub has some get very animated over my surgestions

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55 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

i think pensions could end up being means tested,ie you might loose the normal one if your private pension beats it.

So what is the point in having a 'Normal' one and being taxed to death for the other?

That could get interesting.

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Old people moan all the time.

Take a random group of septuagenarians at the bingo.

At least one will have no savings, no private pension, no property and receive everything going for nothing.

At least one will have any two from the three and receive nothing unless they pay.

The government plan to fund social care will rely on soaking 'the rich' because the poor have nothing to take.

     

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