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SNACR

Sensible lightweight motorbike suggestions

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2 hours ago, spunko2010 said:

Is there a DOSBODS motorbike thread? I have been toying with the idea of doing my CBT after riding pillion the other day on a 1200CC bike (terrifying but fun). I'd love a KTM RC125.

 

booked my theory test for next week, then I'm planning on doing direct access for the full A license, scew settling for CBT and a 125

Edited by snaga

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17 minutes ago, snaga said:

booked my theory test for next week, then I'm planning on doing direct access for the full A license, scew settling for CBT and a 125

Why do you consider it settling? I am more than happy to get to grips with a 125cc for a few months and flog it on after that.

The way I see it, you wouldn't get a Honda NSX after passing your driving test for a first car, and expect to be alive 6 months later....

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14 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Why do you consider it settling? I am more than happy to get to grips with a 125cc for a few months and flog it on after that.

The way I see it, you wouldn't get a Honda NSX after passing your driving test for a first car, and expect to be alive 6 months later....

125cc arn't slouches and you can kill yourself on one very easily.

I'm looking at 500-650cc bike for my first proper bike, but I'm not after a racer, something like a Honda Rebel 500, 0-60 in ~7secs and able to cruise at 70-80mph and ABS brakes would be a sensible first bike, your "little" 125cc will probably be faster in town.

 

 

 

 

Edited by snaga

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22 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Why do you consider it settling? I am more than happy to get to grips with a 125cc for a few months and flog it on after that.

The way I see it, you wouldn't get a Honda NSX after passing your driving test for a first car, and expect to be alive 6 months later....

You're right, but he should do full test anyway.  The only thing more scary than seeing someone riding a 125cc badly while on 'L' plates is seeing someone riding a 50cc badly while on 'L' plates.

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There's nothing particularly wrong with doing your CBT and riding round on L-Plates for a while, that's what most people including me did prior to the rules changing in 1997, or do now if they're too young to do Direct Access (I turned 17 in 1996, won't go into the sad story of how I failed to get my full licence in time). However you'd undoubtedly be safer doing your CBT and then getting some proper training rather than just doing CBT and learning by trial and error, and if you're over the age of 23 or whatever it is and not desperately short of money, you might as well do your training and test on a big bike so you get a full licence straight away.

As for the XSR700 @SNACR, I reckon they look great and are undoubtedly a lot of fun to ride, but the lack of wind (and rain) protection and what looks like a relatively sporty riding position (hands down / bum up) will probably be tiring on longer rides.

Edited by Rave

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17 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Why do you consider it settling? I am more than happy to get to grips with a 125cc for a few months and flog it on after that.

The way I see it, you wouldn't get a Honda NSX after passing your driving test for a first car, and expect to be alive 6 months later....

As I'm sure you're aware not all bikes are tuned the same so I would worry less about the engine capcity and more about the bikes attritubes eg a 600cc sports bike will be very different to the 700cc SNACR is looking at. With that said the 125cc KTM will have to be pinned all the time and makes a horrible racket. You'll need to be going up the gearbox continuously. If you're in need of a little extra power, you're unlikely going to have it. Not much contact with the road either with those tiny tyres. A 600cc crotch rocket isn't much fun to ride as an older gent as it needs to be revved like hell, it's hard on the wrists/back. That 125cc, I can only imagine.

I did direct access back in the mid 2000's. The 125cc for the first two days wasn't much fun at all. The 500cc felt just right as a learner and to take you onto the next stage. I went from a CBR600f as my first bike, did my first track day at Silverstone 3 months later and by next spring had upgraded to an R6. So really it's down to the rider and if you're older and more capable/restrained, especially given the rider aids in place that weren't around when I learnt. Personally if I was to redo it all again I would go direct access and start of with one of the mid engined upright bikes, MT07 style. Something with a bit of torque but not too much, decent brakes etc.

Worth noting my near death experiances while on the bike came from other road users, they just don't see you and even the ones that do don't like you getting somewhere quicker than them for the most part. Had a number of people close the gap while filtering. So the main aspect of riding on the road is really understanding that while riding every car is a potential accident. I was last on the road in 2015 and ended up selling my bike. The roads around hear are heavily policed, they've reduced all the limits to 50mph etc. That's why if I was to ride again I would get a bike from the Bonnerville range, loads of torque and just cruise around in the evenings.

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Well, I've gone against the DOSBODS collective and am doing my CBT next week. I just don't trust myself enough to go in at the deep end to do Direct Access and jump straight onto a 600cc bike. I'll probably get bored of whatever (used) 125cc I buy within a week and want more power/speed but such is life.

Also don't want to hijack the thread and make it all about 125ccs but, which would DOSBODers who know a thing or two about bikes, recommend? I am 6ft so need to bear that in mind when trying them out. I've nailed it down to the following based on looks/styling:

KTM Duke 125cc
KTM RC125
Yamaha YZF-R125

or maybe
Suzuki GSX-R125

Had a look at the Aprilia but not sure on those.

I realise all of these are quite silly to those with 600cc+ engines.

gsx-r125-1.jpg

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I don't blame you just for going for the CBT for now, you can always decide to the next license intime for the new biking season. As you're going for a 125cc why not look at something more upright? Those bikes are made for 17 year kids, who are more flexible and not prone to aches.

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1 minute ago, Admiral Pepe said:

I don't blame you just for going for the CBT for now, you can always decide to the next license intime for the new biking season. As you're going for a 125cc why not look at something more upright? Those bikes are made for 17 year kids, who are more flexible and not prone to aches.

It's proving problematic to find one, although I think the KTM Duke would be the most appropriate in that regard for someone in their 30s. I was considering something like a Mutt Mongrel.

muttmongrel125_bikesocial.ashx?h=444&w=7

They are a bit hipster-y.

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I understand the sentiment but if you've got years of car driving on the road experience I honestly don't think there's any benefit to a 125cc. Modern bikes are piss easy to ride in mainstream specs even with what used to be considered large displacement engines.

The Driving Standards agency essentially introduced direct access because they recognised this. I'm not saying there's nothing to be learnt that's bike specific coming to it from a car but the main thing with all road awareness tends to be experience.

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All are good bikes. Ideally try more than one and see which fits you best, there's not much to choose between them in terms of speed, handling or build quality as far as I know. The upright Duke ought to have a more comfortable riding position than the race reps, but will be a bit breezier on A-Roads.

Be careful buying a secondhand 125 as they tend to be owned, thashed and often crashed by feckless youths. On the plus side, demand from other learners means they keep their value well if you look after them.

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I'd go for Direct Access, I find bigger bikes more stable and I'm only 5'6" tall and just under 10 stone. Unless you're going long distance or track days you don't need a faired bike, I keep looking longingly at the MV Agusta Dragster and CCM Spitfire which have little or nothing in common :D

Oh and don't forget to leave DOSBODS to someone on here in your will :ph34r:

Edited by Option5

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14 minutes ago, SNACR said:

I understand the sentiment but if you've got years of car driving on the road experience I honestly don't think there's any benefit to a 125cc. Modern bikes are piss easy to ride in mainstream specs even with what used to be considered large displacement engines.

The Driving Standards agency essentially introduced direct access because they recognised this. I'm not saying there's nothing to be learnt that's bike specific coming to it from a car but the main thing with all road awareness tends to be experience.

I jumped into a car at 17, my first car, and almost died within two days of driving. Although that was nearly 15 years ago I know several people of similar age who have bought powerful bikes and died, due to speeding. I understand there are additional risks with a 125cc but I only plan to use it for a few months then flog it once I've got the full license. I'm a very cautious person generally nowadays, even a small risk factor and normally I'm out of there :ph34r:

It's quite a big step for me to get a bike, something I've wanted for years, but finally feel mature enough to try it.

 

Edit: just realised Mutt are British, I'm sold, are they made in the UK? Apparently not, Chinese parts put together in the UK. Hmmm

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22 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

It's proving problematic to find one, although I think the KTM Duke would be the most appropriate in that regard for someone in their 30s. I was considering something like a Mutt Mongrel.

muttmongrel125_bikesocial.ashx?h=444&w=7

They are a bit hipster-y.

they get good reviews ...

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45 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Well, I've gone against the DOSBODS collective and am doing my CBT next week. I just don't trust myself enough to go in at the deep end to do Direct Access and jump straight onto a 600cc bike. I'll probably get bored of whatever (used) 125cc I buy within a week and want more power/speed but such is life.

Also don't want to hijack the thread and make it all about 125ccs but, which would DOSBODers who know a thing or two about bikes, recommend? I am 6ft so need to bear that in mind when trying them out. I've nailed it down to the following based on looks/styling:

KTM Duke 125cc
KTM RC125
Yamaha YZF-R125

or maybe
Suzuki GSX-R125

Had a look at the Aprilia but not sure on those.

I realise all of these are quite silly to those with 600cc+ engines.

gsx-r125-1.jpg

Only the KTM Duke isn't mad.  The posture for the others would be hell on the wrists and back.

[I had a race rep in my 20s and that was bad enough -- couldn't cope with it now. The deal with the race-rep posture is that air-flow lifts your body and takes the weight off the wrists.  It doesn't do this at town speeds, and probably never will on a 125]

Note that all 125s pretty much have the same power (maybe different torque/power profile against rpm).  So there's not going to be much difference in performance for a classic posture vs a race-rep.

I'd certainly get a Mutt over any of the others, as it is at least coolish.  They might not be UK made, but at least they've made some effort (cw. the Sinnis brand, say).  I also think they've got some brand pride and will take warranty etc seriously.

Anyway, regarding 125cc vs others -- 125 is okay for towns.  If you want to ride at 50+ for any distance then you'll need more (probably more than a 250, but that's debatable).

To add -- for town work a 125 scooter isn't a bad choice.  Completely different vibe, of course, but can work better for some.  It would have to be a classic Vespa to have any residual coolness, though.

 

Edited by dgul

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Oh, and about the 'risks of riding'.

Think about how you drive.  Are you bored of driving, just a way of getting around?  Or do you react to the traffic -- do you feel the need to get ahead of that lorry at the lights?   Get cross at that stupid guy in the van?  Need to work around that guy that is just so slow around each roundabout?  The more emotionally reactive you are when driving the less suited you'll be to a motorcycle, particularly a higher power one.  The deal with a high-powered bike is to know that you could burn everyone off at the lights, but never ever actually do so (happy to just be able to, if you wanted).  

Riding is about being hyper-aware to the risks, and to always have a cool head.  Never ever get the red-mist.  If you're a 'red mist' driver stick with the car.  If you find yourself drifting off when driving then start trying to be hyper-aware when driving (car); if you can't increase your awareness in a car then don't think that two wheels will make the awareness suddenly appear.

[I have a suspicion that mild autism spectrum is an advantage -- part of the problem is the hyper-awareness that can't be turned off.  But you can't have the temper that so often comes with it.]

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7 minutes ago, dgul said:

Only the KTM Duke isn't mad.  The posture for the others would be hell on the wrists and back.

[I had a race rep in my 20s and that was bad enough -- couldn't cope with it now. The deal with the race-rep posture is that air-flow lifts your body and takes the weight off the wrists.  It doesn't do this at town speeds, and probably never will on a 125]

Note that all 125s pretty much have the same power (maybe different torque/power profile against rpm).  So there's not going to be much difference in performance for a classic posture vs a race-rep.

I'd certainly get a Mutt over any of the others, as it is at least coolish.  They might not be UK made, but at least they've made some effort (cw. the Sinnis brand, say).  I also think they've got some brand pride and will take warranty etc seriously.

Anyway, regarding 125cc vs others -- 125 is okay for towns.  If you want to ride at 50+ for any distance then you'll need more (probably more than a 250, but that's debatable).

To add -- for town work a 125 scooter isn't a bad choice.  Completely different vibe, of course, but can work better for some.  It would have to be a classic Vespa to have any residual coolness, though.

 

Thanks. I'm planning on doing mostly country lane driving and pootling around town. My commute to work is all bendy B roads so should be quite fun. It's not going to be a daily rider - well that's the plan anyway, I'll still use my car.

There's a brand new Mutt Baja for sale a few miles from me:

media.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, spunko2010 said:

Thanks. I'm planning on doing mostly country lane driving and pootling around town. My commute to work is all bendy B roads so should be quite fun. It's not going to be a daily rider - well that's the plan anyway, I'll still use my car.

There's a brand new Mutt Baja for sale a few miles from me:

media.jpg

 

I think that looks cool enough.    I prefer the Mongrel look myself, but the Baja has got a certain style.

Frankly, I'd pass the test and then get a 250*.  CBT is fine, but get trained properly asap.  250cc - 400cc is a perfect size of bike, IMO -- I really don't know where the fetish for large capacity bikes has come from.

[* I know this is contentious -- and 250 is for many neither one nor other.  but 125 really is a little too limiting, and you need a little while to get a grip on things before going 400+.  But personally I really like the 250 size of bike (and scooter -- 200cc Vespa is great fun)]

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1 minute ago, spunko2010 said:

Thanks. I'm planning on doing mostly country lane driving and pootling around town. My commute to work is all bendy B roads so should be quite fun. It's not going to be a daily rider - well that's the plan anyway, I'll still use my car.

There's a brand new Mutt Baja for sale a few miles from me:

media.jpg

 

Dougie Lampkin from eighties Junior Kickstart, has just called, and says he wants his bike back.

 

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

Oh, and about the 'risks of riding'.

Think about how you drive.  Are you bored of driving, just a way of getting around?  Or do you react to the traffic -- do you feel the need to get ahead of that lorry at the lights?   Get cross at that stupid guy in the van?  Need to work around that guy that is just so slow around each roundabout?  The more emotionally reactive you are when driving the less suited you'll be to a motorcycle, particularly a higher power one.  The deal with a high-powered bike is to know that you could burn everyone off at the lights, but never ever actually do so (happy to just be able to, if you wanted).  

Riding is about being hyper-aware to the risks, and to always have a cool head.  Never ever get the red-mist.  If you're a 'red mist' driver stick with the car.  If you find yourself drifting off when driving then start trying to be hyper-aware when driving (car); if you can't increase your awareness in a car then don't think that two wheels will make the awareness suddenly appear.

[I have a suspicion that mild autism spectrum is an advantage -- part of the problem is the hyper-awareness that can't be turned off.  But you can't have the temper that so often comes with it.]

Increasingly less bothered by the bad driving of others as I get older. I never get the "red mist", think in the last year I've got angry at one person which involved accelerating round them when safe. Even 5 years ago I drove erratically and angrily all the time, but don't now, think I'm too old to do it now, and find it a bit pathetic. I remember getting stuck on the M5 last winter for hours and hours without moving an inch, I didn't find it frustrating, actually quite relaxing, but would have in the past no doubt been very stressed out. Others weren't so relaxed and there was even a mini-brawl on the hard shoulder. o.O

 

1 minute ago, SNACR said:

Dougie Lampkin from eighties Junior Kickstart, has just called, and says he wants his bike back.

 

I have no idea what this reference means. :D

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1 minute ago, SNACR said:

Dougie Lampkin from eighties Junior Kickstart, has just called, and says he wants his bike back.

 

Nothing cooler than 80's.

[at the moment.  I don't get it, as at the time there wasn't anything cooler than 60's.  But everyone gets a turn to be cool]

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One issue I found with the 125 + CBT thing was at the end of my first year, my insurance went up 50%... I have no idea why. I'd actually umm'd and arr'd about keeping it, had spent several months where I didn't touch it so sold up with the insurance as the 'push'.

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18 minutes ago, dgul said:

To add -- for town work a 125 scooter isn't a bad choice.  Completely different vibe, of course, but can work better for some.  It would have to be a classic Vespa to have any residual coolness, though.

 

Lambretta is cooler.

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1 minute ago, spunko2010 said:

Increasingly less bothered by the bad driving of others as I get older. I never get the "red mist", think in the last year I've got angry at one person which involved accelerating round them when safe. Even 5 years ago I drove erratically and angrily all the time, but don't now, think I'm too old to do it now, and find it a bit pathetic. I remember getting stuck on the M5 last winter for hours and hours without moving an inch, I didn't find it frustrating, actually quite relaxing, but would have in the past no doubt been very stressed out. Others weren't so relaxed and there was even a mini-brawl on the hard shoulder. o.O

That sounds about right.

Stupid thing is, bikes are marketed at the young, whereas the people most likely to do well on a bike are the well settled middle aged -- but they need cars. 

[And nothing is worse than the born-again crisis, which is just about dreams over talent.  All would be fine if they'd only get a slow bike with good brakes...]

1 minute ago, Option5 said:

Lambretta is cooler.

Twas always thus.

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