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swiss_democracy_for_all

New Religion - SWYT

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I have been contemplating how the ridiculous hate speech laws and the inexorable growth in scope of the meaning of the word "racism" can be contested in order to save free speech,

How about a new religion that states that it is the equivalent of "Haram" or taboo to not say what you think?  The Say What You Think religion (SWYT).

If such a religion was created and registered officially, if official practitioners of this religion were accused of hate speech for their statements, this accusation would be hate speech in itself. Legally, how would it be sorted out?

How does one set about making a religion official and recognised? (Apart from owning oilfields and bribing political parties)

 

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2 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

How does one set about making a religion official?

That's the nub of it - a religion just *is*. It's the various associations within a religion that may be conceded charitable status

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Just now, Panther said:

That's the nub of it - a religion just *is*. It's the various associations within a religion that may be conceded charitable status

Really? In law? So the Spaghetti Monster religion carries as much legal weight as Islam or Christianity? I assumed there had to be some sort of official register with numbers of followers etc.

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10 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I assumed there had to be some sort of official register with numbers of followers etc.

Maybe in China or somewhere like that. Religion is founded upon revelation from god, not upon a certificate of incorporation issued by government.

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The obvious comparison (and sad lack of official recognition) would be with Jediism. From the wikipedia article on the 2001 census:

In England and Wales 390,127 people (almost 0.8%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country.[34] In the 2001 Census, 2.6% of the population of Brighton claimed to be Jedi. The percentages of religious affiliations were:

It was confirmed prior to the census that citizens were not liable for a fine in relation to question 10 (on religion).[35] This was based on section 1(2) of the Census (Amendment) Act 2000,[36] which amended section 8 of the Census Act 2000 to state that "no person shall be liable to a penalty under subsection (1) for refusing or neglecting to state any particulars in respect of religion". The change in the law was implemented by The Census (Amendment) Order 2000[37] and The Census (Amendment) Regulations 2000.[38]

Jedi was assigned its own code in the United Kingdom for census processing, the number 896.[39] Officials from the Office for National Statistics pointed out that this merely means that it has been registered as a common answer to the "religion" question and that this does not confer on it the status of official recognition. John Pullinger, Director of Reporting and Analysis for the Census, noted that many people who would otherwise not have completed a Census form did so solely to record themselves as Jedi, so this joke helped to improve the quality of the Census. The Office for National Statistics revealed the total figure in a press release entitled "390,000 Jedi there are".[40]

In June 2005, Jamie Reed, newly elected Labour Member of Parliament for Copeland in Cumbria, declared himself to be the first Jedi Member of Parliament during his maiden speech.[41] The statement, made in the context of an ongoing debate regarding the Incitement to Religious Hatred Bill, was confirmed by Reed's office to be a joke instead of a serious statement of faith. During a subsequent committee debate on the bill, the Conservative Member of Parliament for Beaconsfield, Dominic Grieve, proposed as "a bit of a joke" to exclude Jedi Knights from the protection of the proposed act, along with Satanists and proponents of animal sacrifice, illustrating the difficulty of defining religious belief in legislation.[42] Similarly, in April 2006, Edward Leigh, the Conservative Member of Parliament for Gainsborough, asked whether he would be allowed to set up a Jedi knights faith school during a Committee debate on the Education and Inspections Bill.[43]

On 16 November 2006, two Jedi delivered a protest letter to UN officials in recognition of the International Day for Tolerance. The letter, written by Simon Cohen of the Global Tolerance public relations agency,[44] requested that it be renamed the "UN Interstellar Day of Tolerance" and cited the 2001 Census showing 390,000 Jedi in England and Wales.[45]

According to 2011 census figures, the number of Jedi had fallen to 176,632, placing it in seventh place, having been overtaken by Judaism and Buddhism, but still comfortably outnumbering any other alternative or mock religions.[46] The magazine Metal Hammer also encouraged readers to mark "Heavy Metal" as their religion, leading to over 6,000 responses.[47]

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1 minute ago, BurntBread said:

The obvious comparison (and sad lack of official recognition) would be with Jediism. From the wikipedia article on the 2001 census:

In England and Wales 390,127 people (almost 0.8%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country.[34] In the 2001 Census, 2.6% of the population of Brighton claimed to be Jedi. The percentages of religious affiliations were:

It was confirmed prior to the census that citizens were not liable for a fine in relation to question 10 (on religion).[35] This was based on section 1(2) of the Census (Amendment) Act 2000,[36] which amended section 8 of the Census Act 2000 to state that "no person shall be liable to a penalty under subsection (1) for refusing or neglecting to state any particulars in respect of religion". The change in the law was implemented by The Census (Amendment) Order 2000[37] and The Census (Amendment) Regulations 2000.[38]

Jedi was assigned its own code in the United Kingdom for census processing, the number 896.[39] Officials from the Office for National Statistics pointed out that this merely means that it has been registered as a common answer to the "religion" question and that this does not confer on it the status of official recognition. John Pullinger, Director of Reporting and Analysis for the Census, noted that many people who would otherwise not have completed a Census form did so solely to record themselves as Jedi, so this joke helped to improve the quality of the Census. The Office for National Statistics revealed the total figure in a press release entitled "390,000 Jedi there are".[40]

In June 2005, Jamie Reed, newly elected Labour Member of Parliament for Copeland in Cumbria, declared himself to be the first Jedi Member of Parliament during his maiden speech.[41] The statement, made in the context of an ongoing debate regarding the Incitement to Religious Hatred Bill, was confirmed by Reed's office to be a joke instead of a serious statement of faith. During a subsequent committee debate on the bill, the Conservative Member of Parliament for Beaconsfield, Dominic Grieve, proposed as "a bit of a joke" to exclude Jedi Knights from the protection of the proposed act, along with Satanists and proponents of animal sacrifice, illustrating the difficulty of defining religious belief in legislation.[42] Similarly, in April 2006, Edward Leigh, the Conservative Member of Parliament for Gainsborough, asked whether he would be allowed to set up a Jedi knights faith school during a Committee debate on the Education and Inspections Bill.[43]

On 16 November 2006, two Jedi delivered a protest letter to UN officials in recognition of the International Day for Tolerance. The letter, written by Simon Cohen of the Global Tolerance public relations agency,[44] requested that it be renamed the "UN Interstellar Day of Tolerance" and cited the 2001 Census showing 390,000 Jedi in England and Wales.[45]

According to 2011 census figures, the number of Jedi had fallen to 176,632, placing it in seventh place, having been overtaken by Judaism and Buddhism, but still comfortably outnumbering any other alternative or mock religions.[46] The magazine Metal Hammer also encouraged readers to mark "Heavy Metal" as their religion, leading to over 6,000 responses.[47]

I put down Jedi on one census. It may well have been that one. Anything to subvert the establishment in what are essentially little ways. 

Im guessing that there will be no censi (pl?) going forward as @) certain sections of the community will just not tell the truth and b) the government don’t want us to know the truth. It will lay bare the extent to which the country has changed. 

Mark my words. :Old:

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2 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I have been contemplating how the ridiculous hate speech laws and the inexorable growth in scope of the meaning of the word "racism" can be contested in order to save free speech,

How about a new religion that states that it is the equivalent of "Haram" or taboo to not say what you think?  The Say What You Think religion (SWYT).

If such a religion was created and registered officially, if official practitioners of this religion were accused of hate speech for their statements, this accusation would be hate speech in itself. Legally, how would it be sorted out?

How does one set about making a religion official and recognised? (Apart from owning oilfields and bribing political parties)

 

Funny I was thinking about starting a thread on us starting the dosbods religion

Best business model ever , make up a load of unprovable stuff that customers pay up front for with no need to provide proof or deliver on promises made 

 The leaders get massive wealth and first dibs on the hot chicks 

 

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2 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I have been contemplating how the ridiculous hate speech laws and the inexorable growth in scope of the meaning of the word "racism" can be contested in order to save free speech,

How about a new religion that states that it is the equivalent of "Haram" or taboo to not say what you think?  The Say What You Think religion (SWYT).

If such a religion was created and registered officially, if official practitioners of this religion were accused of hate speech for their statements, this accusation would be hate speech in itself. Legally, how would it be sorted out?

How does one set about making a religion official and recognised? (Apart from owning oilfields and bribing political parties)

 

I`m not sure but i seem to remember a TV program where someone created a independent country in the Thames Estuary 

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2 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Really? In law? So the Spaghetti Monster religion carries as much legal weight as Islam or Christianity? I assumed there had to be some sort of official register with numbers of followers etc.

Well from where i`m standing Scientology has as much legitimacy as the Spaghetti Monster  

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Well I can see the idea isn't popular even here, but if I was as rich as Soros I might find a stooge to put this kind of thing to the test in court. To my mind freedom of speech needs protecting and all these hate speech laws and the endless expansion of the scope of what is deemed racism has put it under grave threat.

Boris is a twat IMO, but he has the right to be a twat.

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