• Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Melchett

A plague on all your houses

Recommended Posts

I was just pondering on the following idea: it seems to me that for decades, maybe longer, the main (two?) political parties have, as a major strategy, used “project fear”, ie we know you don’t really support us but vote for us or that other lot that you like even less will get in. If you don’t vote for us we are the only ones who stand a chance of getting in so your vote will be wasted.

Well, now I look at the “main” parties and think “Myself, my values, my family and my country are fucked either way. So I’ll vote for whoever, and if it is a wasted vote, well, let the dice fall where they may.” 

AFAICR the only time this has attitude has prevailed  in significant numbers of U.K. voters in recent UK political history was the Euro elections with the UKIP landslide.* But now UKIP is bust, what chance do see such a thing of ever happening again? I mean, both Labs and Cons seem determined to allienate their core and swing voters, but at present there is no other sensible place to cast your vote.

*oh, and much though I despise her and her party, wee jimmy kranky and the “Blame it on the English” party wiping out Labour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Melchett said:

I was just pondering on the following idea: it seems to me that for decades, maybe longer, the main (two?) political parties have, as a major strategy, used “project fear”, ie we know you don’t really support us but vote for us or that other lot that you like even less will get in. If you don’t vote for us we are the only ones who stand a chance of getting in so your vote will be wasted.

Well, now I look at the “main” parties and think “Myself, my values, my family and my country are fucked either way. So I’ll vote for whoever, and if it is a wasted vote, well, let the dice fall where they may.” 

AFAICR the only time this has attitude has prevailed  in significant numbers of U.K. voters in recent UK political history was the Euro elections with the UKIP landslide.* But now UKIP is bust, what chance do see such a thing of ever happening again? I mean, both Labs and Cons seem determined to allienate their core and swing voters, but at present there is no other sensible place to cast your vote.

*oh, and much though I despise her and her party, wee jimmy kranky and the “Blame it on the English” party wiping out Labour.

 

Hence, the MPs worry about fake true news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44967650

Fake news a democratic crisis for UK, MPs warn

Quote

According to the leaked report, MPs say "our democracy is at risk and now is the time to act".

The committee highlights the "relentless targeting of hyper-partisan views, which play to the fears and prejudices of people, in order to influence their voting plans".

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Melchett said:

 

Well, now I look at the “main” parties and think “Myself, my values, my family and my country are fucked either way. So I’ll vote for whoever, and if it is a wasted vote, well, let the dice fall where they may.” 

 

 

Yep, I'm thinking exactly the same.

Voting LabLibCon is the wasted vote nowdays.

Hoping for some alternatives to appear before next election. Leaning towards UKIP at the moment, Gerrard seems pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

 

Hence, the MPs worry about fake true news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44967650

Fake news a democratic crisis for UK, MPs warn

 

 

The democratic crisis i nthe UK is that the mainstream parties no longer represent the bulk of the UK.

There needs to be less MPs/PolParties and more direct democracy.

We have the tehnology for it these days; no need for representative democracy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be clear though - the 'protest' vote for UKIP in the 2014 Euros, was the primary reason Cameron was scared shitless enough to make the pledge of an EU referendum if he won in 2015... 

Suffice to say, that without that UKIP victory, we wouldn't be leaving the EU - so I think it's far from just a wasted protest vote! Arguably it was probably the most important political victory in 40 years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Southmartin said:

Let's be clear though - the 'protest' vote for UKIP in the 2014 Euros, was the primary reason Cameron was scared shitless enough to make the pledge of an EU referendum if he won in 2015... 

 

It makes me laugh that if the establishment hadn't used all it's underhand tactics to crush the BNP in the previous decade, then UKIP wouldn't have grown to the threat it turned out to be which eventually lead to where we are now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The democratic crisis i nthe UK is that the mainstream parties no longer represent the bulk of the UK.

There needs to be less MPs/PolParties and more direct democracy.

We have the tehnology for it these days; no need for representative democracy.

 

 

You can't go letting the populists have a say, what with their simple, straightforward solutions to highly nuanced and long-standing problems (we should leave decisions where they belong, in the hands of actors, and Oxford PPE graduates. Ideally, actors who studied PPE at Oxford)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bod said:

You can't go letting the populists have a say, what with their simple, straightforward solutions to highly nuanced and long-standing problems (we should leave decisions where they belong, in the hands of actors, and Oxford PPE graduates. Ideally, actors who studied PPE at Oxford)

Were you the caller to LBC yesterday  that made the same very point ? They said that we should leave important decisions to MPs as they are more intelligent.

It was in the context that the caller though the public should have never been allowed a referendum on Brexit, as it the issue was too complicated for them, as then we wouldn't now be leaving.

Intreviewer then pointed out that the caller had just called the electorate 'stupid', in otherwords, done a Hilary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Were you the caller to LBC yesterday  that made the same very point ? They said that we should leave important decisions to MPs as they are more intelligent.

It was in the context that the caller though the public should have never been allowed a referendum on Brexit, as it the issue was too complicated for them, as then we wouldn't now be leaving.

Intreviewer then pointed out that the caller had just called the electorate 'stupid', in otherwords, done a Hilary.

Oh ffs, they really do hold us in contempt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

They said that we should leave important decisions to MPs as they are more intelligent.

Guffaw. The recipe for becoming an MP seems to be to join the local party, tramp the streets, make the cold calls,  raise funds, do everything you are told, agree with every decision to show your loyalty, and keep this up for 20 years as you work up to the top slot. We often end up with politicians with no opinion and no critical thinking, even if they are intelligent underneath. My local MP seems to specialise in "aren't cats nice, isn't cancer bad" type newsletters then advertising a cat cancer charity fundraising event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, yeah. Thats why party politics should be banned IMO. Candidates should have to stand as individuals, on individual platforms. 

Saddest thing for me about the last election was 40 year high turnout and a combined lab-con vote of over 83%. Months before, it was being mooted it might fail to break 60% for the first time.

How much do they have to shit on people before people pack in the red/blue crap?

No one reads any of the election stuff anyway. If they did, they'd see that the local tory is actually a libdem in all but name. This despite my area being one that would gleefully vote for Enoch Powell. So long as it has conservative pinned to it, they vote for it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, null; said:

 

Yep, I'm thinking exactly the same.

Voting LabLibCon is the wasted vote nowdays.

Hoping for some alternatives to appear before next election. Leaning towards UKIP at the moment, Gerrard seems pretty good.

I`m with you on UKIP it`s a bit early to say for sure as Gerard is a unknown when it comes to the next election as he said his time as leader was temporary  

But as it stands now, it looks like he`s spotted a gap in the market that labour has abandoned, i believe this was the demographic that led to the parties success in the Euro elections  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

I`m with you on UKIP it`s a bit early to say for sure as Gerard is a unknown when it comes to the next election as he said his time as leader was temporary  

But as it stands now, it looks like he`s spotted a gap in the market that labour has abandoned, i believe this was the demographic that led to the parties success in the Euro elections  

I recall he said when he accepted the leadership that he wouldn't promise to stay in the post but he would see if he could increase the membership then he would reassess his position. Not quite the same as saying he would only be in his post temporarily.

I like what he says and have joined UKIP. From what I read there seems to be a resurgence of membership. It reflects the disillusionment of the electorate with liblabcon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I recall he said when he accepted the leadership that he wouldn't promise to stay in the post but he would see if he could increase the membership then he would reassess his position. Not quite the same as saying he would only be in his post temporarily.

I like what he says and have joined UKIP. From what I read there seems to be a resurgence of membership. It reflects the disillusionment of the electorate with liblabcon.

I agree with all that ,i still think he`s aligning the party more towards the working class that team red have abandoned   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

I agree with all that ,i still think he`s aligning the party more towards the working class that team red have abandoned   

Boris smelling the way the wind is blowing there. I think we'll get many more burka moments in coming months as he smell blood re: May.

He may be an empty vessel, a corporatist sell out like the rest of them, but Boris does at least know which way the wind is blowing. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

 

Boris smelling the way the wind is blowing there. I think we'll get many more burka moments in coming months as he smell blood re: May.

He may be an empty vessel, a corporatist sell out like the rest of them, but Boris does at least know which way the wind is blowing. 

 

 

Well if the rumors are correct ,that UKIP now have more payed up members that the Con`s the writing is on the wall and i suspect you are right ,the question is what the fuck is team May thinking 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Well if the rumors are correct ,that UKIP now have more payed up members that the Con`s the writing is on the wall and i suspect you are right ,the question is what the fuck is team May thinking 

They've either got their eye on the wrong focus group...

Or its is something much more sinister.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.