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null;

Tax credits and benefits paid to EU nationals

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11 minutes ago, null; said:

Its a subject that often gets mentioned on various threads, how EU workers areclaiming tax credits.

According to this HMRC report, tax credits and child benefit paid to EU nationals totals £2.8bn a year:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/639819/Income_Tax_NICs_Tax_Credits_and_Child_Benefit_Statistics_for_EEA_Nationals_2014_to_2015.pdf

 

The SJWs get really humpy when you share this information with them, they hate the facts because as is often the case the facts do not support their ideology. If debating with SJWs online then share these sort of facts, while the SJW in question may not like it, there are always the silent readers whose opinion may be changed when presented with facts and the truth.

Also consider that the £2.8bn does not include things like housing benefit. When included along with other freebies the total £4.1bn figure quoted by IDS seems likely to be correct:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/employers-don-t-bother-finding-british-staff-says-iain-duncan-smith-1-4782351

 

And this may be of use as it shows that immigration does lower wages, for the lower paid:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkpvC0_Hs3AIVRoXVCh0kDgoNEAAYASAAEgIi2_D_BwE

 

I always do my best to counter SJWs with facts rather than emotional outbursts. The truth will win, eventually.

 

Do your figures include health care and education?  There are massive pressures on both these services at the point of delivery. 

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Just now, One percent said:

Do your figures include health care and education?  There are massive pressures on both these services at the point of delivery. 

 

No, although I'm not sure if the figure IDS quoted included that, I was unable to find the source for his £4.1bn but I would guess those costs are not included.

And of course the other big social cost - housing!

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15 minutes ago, null; said:

Its a subject that often gets mentioned on various threads, how EU workers areclaiming tax credits.

According to this HMRC report, tax credits and child benefit paid to EU nationals totals £2.8bn a year:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/639819/Income_Tax_NICs_Tax_Credits_and_Child_Benefit_Statistics_for_EEA_Nationals_2014_to_2015.pdf

 

The SJWs get really humpy when you share this information with them, they hate the facts because as is often the case the facts do not support their ideology. If debating with SJWs online then share these sort of facts, while the SJW in question may not like it, there are always the silent readers whose opinion may be changed when presented with facts and the truth.

Also consider that the £2.8bn does not include things like housing benefit. When included along with other freebies the total £4.1bn figure quoted by IDS seems likely to be correct:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/employers-don-t-bother-finding-british-staff-says-iain-duncan-smith-1-4782351

 

And this may be of use as it shows that immigration does lower wages, for the lower paid:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkpvC0_Hs3AIVRoXVCh0kDgoNEAAYASAAEgIi2_D_BwE

 

I always do my best to counter SJWs with facts rather than emotional outbursts. The truth will win, eventually.

 

Those figures are way out of date - 2014.

And where theres tax credits theres cost of education @ 6k/kid.

 

 

The clam and collected proposal of 'getting a register of all EU nationals living in the UK' will probably end up with riots.

The 'about 3m EUers living inthe UK' will turnout to be 7m-9m. Of those, 70% will be on benefits/taxcredits.

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Those figures are way out of date - 2014.

And where theres tax credits theres cost of education @ 6k/kid.

 

 

Yes, shame there are not more up to date figures. IDS did say 'for when the figures were last available'.

I would imagine that after that HMRC report was produced they were told not to do it again.

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image.thumb.png.9306fcf7dd52acb9a802b0c778d24d9a.png

Look at Poland xD. As said figures are way out of date. I'd be interested in how Spain and Greece are in that table now. My area is like little Barcelona these days.

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5 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

image.thumb.png.9306fcf7dd52acb9a802b0c778d24d9a.png

Look at Poland xD. As said figures are way out of date. I'd be interested in how Spain and Greece are in that table now. My area is like little Barcelona these days.

Romanians. Bet that has grown. 

Wtf are we thinking giving away billions to foreigners when we can’t afford social care, pensions or to look after the mentally ill

this has got to be a treasonous act. No way is this not deliberate. And they they lie, telling us that immigration is a net benefit. 

The more I see of this, the more my protestant work ethic disappears.

Fuck ’em, fuck ‘em all.   

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7 minutes ago, One percent said:

Romanians. Bet that has grown. 

Wtf are we thinking giving away billions to foreigners when we can’t afford social care, pensions or to look after the mentally ill

this has got to be a treasonous act. No way is this not deliberate. And they they lie, telling us that immigration is a net benefit. 

The more I see of this, the more my protestant work ethic disappears.

Fuck ’em, fuck ‘em all.   

You do have to wonder why so many Drs, engineers, IT specialists are being so lowly paid that they need a tax credit top up.....

Ok, so joking aside, there certainly are skilled EU workers coming over here but the bulk of it appears to be unskilled cheap labour.

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19 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

image.thumb.png.9306fcf7dd52acb9a802b0c778d24d9a.png

Look at Poland xD. As said figures are way out of date. I'd be interested in how Spain and Greece are in that table now. My area is like little Barcelona these days.

 

I wonder if there is much difference in the amount of tax credits per person, by country? If I get time I might pop the figures into excel to compare.

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1 minute ago, null; said:

You do have to wonder why so many Drs, engineers, IT specialists are being so lowly paid that they need a tax credit top up.....

Ok, so joking aside, there certainly are skilled EU workers coming over here but the bulk of it appears to be unskilled cheap labour.

I have no problem with anyone coming here, as long as they do not need taxpayer support.  

No other country behaves in this way.  I would love to live in rural America, a Greek island, the Caribbean but no one will pay for me to sit around in any of those places. 

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3 minutes ago, One percent said:

I have no problem with anyone coming here, as long as they do not need taxpayer support.  

No other country behaves in this way.  I would love to live in rural America, a Greek island, the Caribbean but no one will pay for me to sit around in any of those places. 

 

Yes, I think the vast majority are with you on that, but would add that we do need limits and it needs to be tailored to attract those with the skills we need, or skills/talents that wil add value to the lives of UK citizens.

Yet we get called wascist for not liking a system that favousr mostly white Europeans over people from Africa or India. Surely the EU is inherently wascist?

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42 minutes ago, null; said:

I always do my best to counter SJWs with facts rather than emotional outbursts. The truth will win, eventually.

 

Emotional thinkers vastly outweigh rational thinkers, that's why election campaigns are run on emotions, not facts.  e.g. "Save the NHS" or "Project Fear" rather than a macro-economic  analysis of paragraph 22, part IV, article 7 of the Lisbon treaty. 

If you use facts against an SJW, you will get nowhere. Humans have a shield in front of the brain to stop facts over-riding beliefs, it takes a lot to overcome this.    You have to be fully on their side before sliding in a fact.  e.g. Half an hour about how good immigration is for diversity before saying how it's so sad that they want to kill your gay friend and leave it at that to fester.

If people knew the truth, they would have nothing to believe in.

 

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29 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

image.thumb.png.9306fcf7dd52acb9a802b0c778d24d9a.png

Look at Poland xD. As said figures are way out of date. I'd be interested in how Spain and Greece are in that table now. My area is like little Barcelona these days.

Lithuiania as population below 3m.

Poland is just below 40m  - ~ 15x bigger.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

 

Emotional thinkers vastly outweigh rational thinkers, that's why election campaigns are run on emotions, not facts.  e.g. "Save the NHS" or "Project Fear" rather than a macro-economic  analysis of paragraph 22, part IV, article 7 of the Lisbon treaty. 

If you use facts against an SJW, you will get nowhere. Humans have a shield in front of the brain to stop facts over-riding beliefs, it takes a lot to overcome this.    You have to be fully on their side before sliding in a fact.  e.g. Half an hour about how good immigration is for diversity before saying how it's so sad that they want to kill your gay friend and leave it at that to fester.

If people knew the truth, they would have nothing to believe in.

 

That is great advice, thanks. My experience is generally as you describe, the SJWs just ignore the facts, or shout fake news, or wasisct.

 

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6 minutes ago, null; said:

 

Yes, I think the vast majority are with you on that, but would add that we do need limits and it needs to be tailored to attract those with the skills we need, or skills/talents that wil add value to the lives of UK citizens.

Yet we get called wascist for not liking a system that favousr mostly white Europeans over people from Africa or India. Surely the EU is inherently wascist?

Well, our ancestors have built this country.  We are (should be) mere guardians of it to pass onto future generations. Somehow our leaders have forgotten that and are no longer protecting the inheritance of future generations. 

Pits not racist, it is looking after what has been built by our forebears. 

There is nothing to stop these foreigners who appear to covert what we have, to work hard and to build and invest in their own countries. 

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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Lithuiania as population below 3m.

Poland is just below 40m  - ~ 15x bigger.

1

Not disputing smaller countries and particularly the EE countries may have a higher percentage of claimants. Just highlighting Poland makes up a third of the total bill, which is quite staggering and ludicrous. 

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10 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

Not disputing smaller countries and particularly the EE countries may have a higher percentage of claimants. Just highlighting Poland makes up a third of the total bill, which is quite staggering and ludicrous. 

Not an issue - no migrants houldb e be in receipt of nay benefits.

 

Just pointing out the claim rate is massive - 100%? for some EE countries.

 

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1 hour ago, null; said:

Its a subject that often gets mentioned on various threads, how EU workers are claiming tax credits.

According to this HMRC report, tax credits and child benefit paid to EU nationals totals £2.8bn a year:

 

To be honest I don't really care how much is paid in benefits to EU workers. The harmonisation of rules within the EU would lead to this type of imbalance  the same as tax revenues collected in London were paid out to other regions of the UK. We accepted that it was a condition of a united country that there would be ebbs and flows. The same as would be needed if Europe was to be a united entity.

Eventually the ebbs and flows would be accepted and their would be the opportunities to take advantage of those that suited. An example that springs to mind is that a UK born student could study in Germany without having to pay tuition fees. Swings and roundabouts. 

What is of far more concern is the amount paid out to support non EU immigrants and non European ethnicities within the UK. Not only are we looking at the amounts paid out in benefits but also the illegal activities they engage in. An example is the insurance fraud that was recently prosecuted. I'm sure there is far more of that type of behaviour especially within their closed communities.

 

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35 minutes ago, One percent said:

I have no problem with anyone coming here, as long as they do not need taxpayer support.  

No other country behaves in this way.  I would love to live in rural America, a Greek island, the Caribbean but no one will pay for me to sit around in any of those places. 

Sweden and Germany are possible exceptions, if you are the right colour, that is.

We sometimes opine on here that it's all some sort of plot to destroy Britain but to be honest, I  think it's just that British middle class official types simply do not understand that our welfare system is contributory and  is intended to be funded by taxpayer contributions. The term 'taxpayers'  money' seems to be used less and less nowadays, probably because people do not really know what it means. We have been living on tick for years and governments just borrow to keep the whole show going then wank themselves silly over the thoughts of 'our wonderful NHS' and how they are going to 'stop homelessness for good' etc. How on earth can you 'stop homelessness' if you allow Roma gypsies to camp wild in Hyde Park?

 

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8 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

To be honest I don't really care how much is paid in benefits to EU workers. The harmonisation of rules within the EU would lead to this type of imbalance  the same as tax revenues collected in London were paid out to other regions of the UK. We accepted that it was a condition of a united country that there would be ebbs and flows. The same as would be needed if Europe was to be a united entity.

Eventually the ebbs and flows would be accepted and their would be the opportunities to take advantage of those that suited. An example that springs to mind is that a UK born student could study in Germany without having to pay tuition fees. Swings and roundabouts. 

What is of far more concern is the amount paid out to support non EU immigrants and non European ethnicities within the UK. Not only are we looking at the amounts paid out in benefits but also the illegal activities they engage in. An example is the insurance fraud that was recently prosecuted. I'm sure there is far more of that type of behaviour especially within their closed communities.

 

Agreed but ... no other EU country has needs based, unlimited benefits.

 

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27 minutes ago, null; said:

That is great advice, thanks. My experience is generally as you describe, the SJWs just ignore the facts, or shout fake news, or wasisct.

 

Indeed you have to appeal to feelz with these morons, not facts, because facts are not a language they speak. The advice about nodding along for half an hour then dropping in about its a shame how they want to kill Gay Bob is perfect. Except I have no time or patience to play that long game.

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4 minutes ago, Melchett said:

Indeed you have to appeal to feelz with these morons, not facts, because facts are not a language they speak. The advice about nodding along for half an hour then dropping in about its a shame how they want to kill Gay Bob is perfect. Except I have no time or patience to play that long game.

A good one to use is to say something like 'of course it's great that we have so many vibrant cultures coming to the UK...but it's a shame that it will  mean eventually the welfare state and our wonderful NHS will probably have to be scrapped'.

Another one I have used is 'It's time for us to leave the EU because the Far Right is gaining power and soon they could be able to control the EU parliament and make the UK adopt similar far-right laws'. 

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2 hours ago, Admiral Pepe said:

image.thumb.png.9306fcf7dd52acb9a802b0c778d24d9a.png

Look at Poland xD. As said figures are way out of date. I'd be interested in how Spain and Greece are in that table now. My area is like little Barcelona these days.

That chart is amazing -- I'd not seen it before.

Normally you get a few more people in the NI bracket than IT, because they're really not working that much; but by and large the numbers should be comparable.  After that there should be more contributions in IT than NI because the %age rate is higher.

So, Belgium looks 'normal' -- sure, a few more in NI (12k) compared with IT (10k), but overall about half the payments in NI cw IT (as it is 12% cw 20% at the base rate).

So, down the list.  Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Greece(perhaps), Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden.  They're normal.

But you've got a load of countries with comparable or even higher NI payments than IT, and many more people in the NI bracket.  You can get the 'higher NI' if people are registered to work and don't work much, but the numbers are staggering.  You can also get the numbers if people are only working between £8k and £10k pa (~ NI and IT thresholds for 2014-15).  So for Poland there are 700k that pay NI but only 500k that pay IT!  Beyond that there's £1.5bln  in NI contributions but only £1bln in IT contributions!

It is all completely bonkers.

 

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45 minutes ago, dgul said:

That chart is amazing -- I'd not seen it before.

Normally you get a few more people in the NI bracket than IT, because they're really not working that much; but by and large the numbers should be comparable.  After that there should be more contributions in IT than NI because the %age rate is higher.

So, Belgium looks 'normal' -- sure, a few more in NI (12k) compared with IT (10k), but overall about half the payments in NI cw IT (as it is 12% cw 20% at the base rate).

So, down the list.  Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Greece(perhaps), Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden.  They're normal.

But you've got a load of countries with comparable or even higher NI payments than IT, and many more people in the NI bracket.  You can get the 'higher NI' if people are registered to work and don't work much, but the numbers are staggering.  You can also get the numbers if people are only working between £8k and £10k pa (~ NI and IT thresholds for 2014-15).  So for Poland there are 700k that pay NI but only 500k that pay IT!  Beyond that there's £1.5bln  in NI contributions but only £1bln in IT contributions!

It is all completely bonkers.

 

Welcome to Brownotopia.

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

That chart is amazing -- I'd not seen it before.

Normally you get a few more people in the NI bracket than IT, because they're really not working that much; but by and large the numbers should be comparable.  After that there should be more contributions in IT than NI because the %age rate is higher.

So, Belgium looks 'normal' -- sure, a few more in NI (12k) compared with IT (10k), but overall about half the payments in NI cw IT (as it is 12% cw 20% at the base rate).

So, down the list.  Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Greece(perhaps), Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden.  They're normal.

But you've got a load of countries with comparable or even higher NI payments than IT, and many more people in the NI bracket.  You can get the 'higher NI' if people are registered to work and don't work much, but the numbers are staggering.  You can also get the numbers if people are only working between £8k and £10k pa (~ NI and IT thresholds for 2014-15).  So for Poland there are 700k that pay NI but only 500k that pay IT!  Beyond that there's £1.5bln  in NI contributions but only £1bln in IT contributions!

It is all completely bonkers.

 

The actual cost will be much much worse.

The onykl way you can survive on a low income in the UK is having the magic kid ticket to tax credits.

So each of the low earners will have a non working spouse and 2 kids.

Kids will be getting eucated at 6k/head. And will getting loads moer beneifts as they are low income.

Then theres NHS.

And housing etc etc.

 

 

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