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TUC conference

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Watching it right now ,apparently Boris is now far right along with TR and Gerard Batten Brexit is going to be the end of the world ,the unions say they want higher pay for workers ......feck they still can`t see the Elephant in the room 

TPTB (or in this case the Labour party) really are shiting themselves ,they have just laid bare their fears and how they need to deal with it which is nothing new to people here (censoring social media  )

And for shits and giggles they want a four day week for full time pay what fecking planet are they on 

 

Edited by Long time lurking

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8 minutes ago, Byron said:

The heady days of the 1970s are long gone.

Just how relevant is the TUC these days?

Great with a wee slice of really strong cheddar. 

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16 minutes ago, Byron said:

The heady days of the 1970s are long gone.

Just how relevant is the TUC these days?

In the private sector - almost zilch.

Wierdly - and unconnected to the TUC conference, which i was oblivious to - I was looking at the process of joining a Union this weekend.

Id been having a chat about unions- as a concept they are not bad thing - allowing individuals to group together. My grandad was a NUM union steward.

Anyhow I went to the TUC, looked at the options Decided Prospect were the bet fit. Looked at the website and .... useless. Links to save of funerals plans and all that. Nothing really relevant.

This article demonstrated the problem:

https://www.prospect.org.uk/news/id/2018/September/7/Prospect-warns-no-good-reason-review-public-sector-pension-cap

'Prospect warns no good reason to review public sector pension cap'

Yes there is. These pensions are not funded and the public sector is way too big for the economy its leaching off.

You know, if Prospect was a TU for scientists and eng etc in the private sector then surely they should be lobbying for less tax and more public sector productivity? You know, their members who pay loads of tax to support these pointless public sector wastes.

Ditto the big statement - 4 day week as robotics and AI will allow us to be more productive.

Yet the railway union strike because a railway company wants to remove guards from the train.

Whats going to happen when the train co wants to remove the driver too?

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

In the private sector - almost zilch.

Wierdly - and unconnected to the TUC conference, which i was oblivious to - I was looking at the process of joining a Union this weekend.

Id been having a chat about unions- as a concept they are not bad thing - allowing individuals to group together. My grandad was a NUM union steward.

Anyhow I went to the TUC, looked at the options Decided Prospect were the bet fit. Looked at the website and .... useless. Links to save of funerals plans and all that. Nothing really relevant.

This article demonstrated the problem:

https://www.prospect.org.uk/news/id/2018/September/7/Prospect-warns-no-good-reason-review-public-sector-pension-cap

'Prospect warns no good reason to review public sector pension cap'

Yes there is. These pensions are not funded and the public sector is way too big for the economy its leaching off.

You know, if Prospect was a TU for scientists and eng etc in the private sector then surely they should be lobbying for less tax and more public sector productivity? You know, their members who pay loads of tax to support these pointless public sector wastes.

Ditto the big statement - 4 day week as robotics and AI will allow us to be more productive.

Yet the railway union strike because a railway company wants to remove guards from the train.

Whats going to happen when the train co wants to remove the driver too?

Superbly put. They really havent a fucking clue, have they? They couldnt join up the dots in a kids 'join the dots' picture puzzle.

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Trade unions, don't get me started.  I am a member as they offer (some) protection - important if there are accusations from students which is becoming more prevalent. If it gets really sticky, then there is full-time lawyers at head office.  

I used to be the branch secretary years ago.  People would come to me with case work.  I did not have a clue about employment law as I had not had any training. So, contacted head office for advice. "oh we don't do that sort of thing"  FFS  both me and the members hung out to dry then. Tossers.  

The latest wheeze from my union is that there is a vote to see if they should be pushing for another vote on Brexit.  Err, no, that is beyond your remit (as is most of the things that they involve themselves in).

The job of a trade union is to support their members, collectively and individually.  They singularly fail to do both.  Repeatedly.  Meanwhile, they are delighted to get behind all and every PC crap going.  

As others have said, an irrelevance.  

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1 hour ago, Long time lurking said:

Watching it right now ,apparently Boris is now far right along with TR and Gerard Batten Brexit is going to be the end of the world ,the unions say they want higher pay for workers ......feck they still can`t see the Elephant in the room 

TPTB (or in this case the Labour party) really are shiting themselves ,they have just laid bare their fears and how they need to deal with it which is nothing new to people here (censoring social media  )

And for shits and giggles they want a four day week for full time pay what fecking planet are they on 

 

They're crackers!

81mk4o8dRnL._SX355_.jpg

Both of them.

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

Trade unions, don't get me started.  I am a member as they offer (some) protection - important if there are accusations from students which is becoming more prevalent. If it gets really sticky, then there is full-time lawyers at head office.  

I used to be the branch secretary years ago.  People would come to me with case work.  I did not have a clue about employment law as I had not had any training. So, contacted head office for advice. "oh we don't do that sort of thing"  FFS  both me and the members hung out to dry then. Tossers.  

The latest wheeze from my union is that there is a vote to see if they should be pushing for another vote on Brexit.  Err, no, that is beyond your remit (as is most of the things that they involve themselves in).

The job of a trade union is to support their members, collectively and individually.  They singularly fail to do both.  Repeatedly.  Meanwhile, they are delighted to get behind all and every PC crap going.  

As others have said, an irrelevance.  

They do offer group savings on funeral plans, holidays etc etc.

I could not find anything they offerred that I could not do with a bit of googling.

I did miss the real shocker in this 4 day for 5 days pay thing:

'Workers should aim for 4 day week at 5 days’ pay by 2100 says TUC'

Thats 82 years away FFS.

To put it in context, a child born today has a 70% of being dead by then.

Bit like the NUM in 1920 asking for investment in google and the internet.

Fucking nuts stupid moronic.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, One percent said:

Trade unions, don't get me started.  I am a member as they offer (some) protection - important if there are accusations from students which is becoming more prevalent. If it gets really sticky, then there is full-time lawyers at head office.  

I used to be the branch secretary years ago.  People would come to me with case work.  I did not have a clue about employment law as I had not had any training. So, contacted head office for advice. "oh we don't do that sort of thing"  FFS  both me and the members hung out to dry then. Tossers.  

The latest wheeze from my union is that there is a vote to see if they should be pushing for another vote on Brexit.  Err, no, that is beyond your remit (as is most of the things that they involve themselves in).

The job of a trade union is to support their members, collectively and individually.  They singularly fail to do both.  Repeatedly.  Meanwhile, they are delighted to get behind all and every PC crap going.  

As others have said, an irrelevance.  

And do their members have a consistent 80%+ view on Brexit?

Maybe in the education sector.

Not sure elsewhere.

Back to railways unions and Cuntbyn - 'For the many not the few'

OK that means he should be supporting the many (railway commuters) rather than the driver and guard (the few).

 

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

They do offer group savings on funeral plans, holidays etc etc.

I could not find anything they offerred that I could not do with a bit of googling.

I did miss the real shocker in this 4 day for 5 days pay thing:

'Workers should aim for 4 day week at 5 days’ pay by 2100 says TUC'

Well when I was in school, this is the line that the teachers peddled.  As there is not enough work to go round, it makes sense

Thats 82 years away FFS.

To put it in context, a child born today has a 70% of being dead by then.

Bit like the NUM in 1920 asking for investment in google and the internet.

Fucking nuts stupid moronic.

 

 

 

 

And do their members have a consistent 80%+ view on Brexit?

Maybe in the education sector.

Not sure elsewhere.

Back to railways unions and Cuntbyn - 'For the many not the few'

OK that means he should be supporting the many (railway commuters) rather than the driver and guard (the few).

No, the commuters are not paying the subs to the union.  The union is there to represent their members (which they don't) 

 

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4 minutes ago, One percent said:

 

I dont mean the union, thats  heir job. I mean Cuntbyn.

If he wants to help the many then he needs to be supporting the commuters not the train driver and guard.

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17 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I did miss the real shocker in this 4 day for 5 days pay thing:

'Workers should aim for 4 day week at 5 days’ pay by 2100 says TUC'

Thats 82 years away FFS.

They are suggesting that no one should work on a Friday.

I think there is every chance that will happen inside 20 years anyway. 

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23 minutes ago, One percent said:

Trade unions, don't get me started.  I am a member as they offer (some) protection - important if there are accusations from students which is becoming more prevalent. If it gets really sticky, then there is full-time lawyers at head office.  

I used to be the branch secretary years ago.  People would come to me with case work.  I did not have a clue about employment law as I had not had any training. So, contacted head office for advice. "oh we don't do that sort of thing"  FFS  both me and the members hung out to dry then. Tossers.  

The latest wheeze from my union is that there is a vote to see if they should be pushing for another vote on Brexit.  Err, no, that is beyond your remit (as is most of the things that they involve themselves in).

The job of a trade union is to support their members, collectively and individually.  They singularly fail to do both.  Repeatedly.  Meanwhile, they are delighted to get behind all and every PC crap going.  

As others have said, an irrelevance.  

Would agree by and large. I personally doubt I get value for money spent on membership fee. If you say anything though you get accused of treating it like being in the AA. You are supposed to join out of vocational pride or something.

Spent 10 years as onsite rep and I did it well. Really made HR sit up when they found out they were not going to be able to flannel someone in a disciplinary, because I was there. As you say though no proper training in employment law just had to learn on the job. 

Ironically colleagues who disliked unions and thought unions were "unprofessional" whatever that means, well they came running for help when they found themselves on the receiving end of HR shit. 

Can't really say unions are wonderful though. A good idea, if they worked better. Will see a resurgence soon because pendulum swung too far in favour of employer post Thatcher. 

What's wrong with 3 day weekend? Years ago you got some of Sunday off if you were lucky, and doom sayers were out in force about the folly of having Saturday off as well. Long past the point by now when should have longer weekends. 

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1 hour ago, Melchett said:

Hasnt been relevant for decades. Neither have unions. by the time Id hit my mid 20s in 1990 Id already worked out that they were basically a gigantic 'Im alright Jack' scam, only interested in themselves and their long standing members with the way they vigorously protected things like pensions for the older members and hung out the youngsters to dry. If you were a youngster setting out in the jobs market you could go fuck yourself as far as they were concerned.  Nothing much has changed, I see, although now it takes a little more IQ for a youngster to see how they are being taken up the arse by The Comrades.

'Last in first out' being the typical union demand in selecting who was going to be laid off.

Edited by Panther

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22 minutes ago, Panther said:

'Last in first out' being the typical union demand in selecting who was going to be laid off.

I worked up on building a gas plant in Shetland.

Anyway on the Monday there was bullshit claims something literally fell off the back of a lorry (not stolen) so the Scousers, Geordie and Jock thick cunt union reps downed tools  to strike regarding safety that took 2 hours. (no ballot taken thus illegal)

As this was an illegal strike  they were told they would not be getting paid the 2 hours later that day.

So on the Thursday David Cameron was due to visit the site, which obviously upset the thick twats.

So on the Thursday they  went on strike for the full day to get the 2 hours pay back ... they threatened anyone who walked back to their office including myself who done fuck all work up there anyway.

Anyway at the end of the day Petrofac backed down and agreed to pay them the 2 hours for the strike on Monday but they would be paid nothing for the Thursday strike ... the thick twats organising this further illegal strike as again there was no ballot were happy with this ... but the workers many of whom were agency were fucked off theyd now lost a days pay.

This sums up the mentality of the British unions for as long as ive seen them, thick agitating twats out to make a name for themselves and not giving a fuck about the workers.

Recent example is in the UK sector offshore the unions managed to get workers a 3 weeks on 3 weeks off rota as opposed to the 2 on 2 off, for zero concessions and no extra money ... If anyone has ever been on a rig theyll know that working 12 hour days 21 days on the bounce in such an extreme environment is dangerous. A few miles east across the North Sea the Norwegians do 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, have far better food and accommodation and safety records .... all because their unions arent thick as fuck agitators and actually look out for the interest of the workers.

 

 

 

Edited by Banned

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1 hour ago, spygirl said:

I did miss the real shocker in this 4 day for 5 days pay thing:

'Workers should aim for 4 day week at 5 days’ pay by 2100 says TUC'

Thats 82 years away FFS.

To put it in context, a child born today has a 70% of being dead by then.

Spy you idiot!

They mean nine o'clock tonight. xD

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1 hour ago, Funn3r said:

Would agree by and large. I personally doubt I get value for money spent on membership fee. If you say anything though you get accused of treating it like being in the AA. You are supposed to join out of vocational pride or something.

Spent 10 years as onsite rep and I did it well. Really made HR sit up when they found out they were not going to be able to flannel someone in a disciplinary, because I was there. As you say though no proper training in employment law just had to learn on the job. 

Ironically colleagues who disliked unions and thought unions were "unprofessional" whatever that means, well they came running for help when they found themselves on the receiving end of HR shit. 

Can't really say unions are wonderful though. A good idea, if they worked better. Will see a resurgence soon because pendulum swung too far in favour of employer post Thatcher. 

What's wrong with 3 day weekend? Years ago you got some of Sunday off if you were lucky, and doom sayers were out in force about the folly of having Saturday off as well. Long past the point by now when should have longer weekends. 

And that demonstrates both unions should be and what they are - or arnt.

Joe Worker needs something on his his otherwise its him, an individual, against a large organisation - management, HR, corp lawyers.

In times of confrontation/disagreement that balance needs to be better balanced.

What we get are Unions who spent all the insurance premiums on stuff like(form Prospect web site, a union supposedly for professional workers i.e. people you are more likely to find outside ofthe public sector):

- Brexit.

- scrap the cap (for public workers).

- good work - a term so vague and woolly im not really sure what it is.

What a union like Prospect should be doing is organising a deal with a number of large law firms to deal with em[loyment issues.

What you get instead are solidarity statement for lesbian weavers in the Congo (probably, ive not looked but it would not surprise me ...).

 

 

50 minutes ago, Banned said:

I worked up on building a gas plant in Shetland.

Anyway on the Monday there was bullshit claims something literally fell off the back of a lorry (not stolen) so the Scousers, Geordie and Jock thick cunt union reps downed tools  to strike regarding safety that took 2 hours. (no ballot taken thus illegal)

As this was an illegal strike  they were told they would not be getting paid the 2 hours later that day.

So on the Thursday David Cameron was due to visit the site, which obviously upset the thick twats.

So on the Thursday they  went on strike for the full day to get the 2 hours pay back ... they threatened anyone who walked back to their office including myself who done fuck all work up there anyway.

Anyway at the end of the day Petrofac backed down and agreed to pay them the 2 hours for the strike on Monday but they would be paid nothing for the Thursday strike ... the thick twats organising this further illegal strike as again there was no ballot were happy with this ... but the workers many of whom were agency were fucked off theyd now lost a days pay.

This sums up the mentality of the British unions for as long as ive seen them, thick agitating twats out to make a name for themselves and not giving a fuck about the workers.

Recent example is in the UK sector offshore the unions managed to get workers a 3 weeks on 3 weeks off rota as opposed to the 2 on 2 off, for zero concessions and no extra money ... If anyone has ever been on a rig theyll know that working 12 hour days 21 days on the bounce in such an extreme environment is dangerous. A few miles east across the North Sea the Norwegians do 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, have far better food and accommodation and safety records .... all because their unions arent thick as fuck agitators and actually look out for the interest of the workers.

 

 

 

Could you not argue that the Norgies are FT employees rather than self employed contractors?

 

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10 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Could you not argue that the Norgies are FT employees rather than self employed contractors? 

Norwegian employment laws cover everyone, you can only work so many hours a day, so many hours a week, so many days a year etc etc. Offshore 12 hour days are accepted but the hours are divided by weeks for the purpose of time off.

Also if you work at the same place on a contract basis they deem the job permenant and they have to put you on staff.

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3 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

Watching it right now ,apparently Boris is now far right along with TR and Gerard Batten Brexit is going to be the end of the world ,the unions say they want higher pay for workers ......feck they still can`t see the Elephant in the room 

TPTB (or in this case the Labour party) really are shiting themselves ,they have just laid bare their fears and how they need to deal with it which is nothing new to people here (censoring social media  )

And for shits and giggles they want a four day week for full time pay what fecking planet are they on 

 

I was listening to Radio 4 Today program this morning - I know, stone me! But in my defence was to see how the legacy lamestream media were reporting the literally jackboot marching swedish election results, and this little gem made my ears prick up too ... I just thought similar to others on here how fucked up most unions are, when all we want is someone to represent us when the employer tries to fuck us over.  This little bit of socialist utopia made me lol.

 

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1 hour ago, spygirl said:

 

Could you not argue that the Norgies are FT employees rather than self employed contractors?

 

Im comparing full time employees with full time employees, it is the permanent staff on each rig this is for not contractors.

Contractors choose to whore themselves out and have no unions representing the,

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2 hours ago, spygirl said:

I dont mean the union, thats  heir job. I mean Cuntbyn.

If he wants to help the many then he needs to be supporting the commuters not the train driver and guard.

The commuters need a union too.

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2 hours ago, Panther said:

'Last in first out' being the typical union demand in selecting who was going to be laid off.

Length of service can be legitimate as part of TULRCA s.188 selection criteria for redundancy. Some older contracts may even contain it as a term in fact. 

That's the same whether or not a union is involved in the consultation though. I don't understand your point? 

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34 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Length of service can be legitimate as part of TULRCA s.188 selection criteria for redundancy. Some older contracts may even contain it as a term in fact. 

That's the same whether or not a union is involved in the consultation though. I don't understand your point? 

Like I said, 'last in first out' was a typical union demand alongside 'closed shop', 'demarcation', 'differentials', etc. Not sure how some 1992 law is relevant to what actually happened in the 70s

Edited by Panther

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2 hours ago, Panther said:

Like I said, 'last in first out' was a typical union demand alongside 'closed shop', 'demarcation', 'differentials', etc. Not sure how some 1992 law is relevant to what actually happened in the 70s

Definitely that law is relevant to modern redundancies. You can't just lay people off and say sorry lads off you go. I do a lot of them at work and if you don't follow it exactly you'll definitely lose at the tribunal who will impose a protective award of 90 days pay on top of the legit redundancy money. And yes last in first out aka length of service is still a thing. 

Edited by Funn3r
Clarity

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