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spygirl

Diabetes - Public Health Scandal

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

But is it truley a public health scandal i.e. something that he NHS should be/can dealing with?

Yes :Old:

Government dietary advice is causing diabetes in many people.

NHS dietician advice to diabetics makes the disease worse.

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The fecking NHS has woken up to the cure at last. Talk about being late to the party!

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/11/milkshake-and-soup-diet-could-be-prescribed-to-treat-diabetes-7932795/

My mate's mother was still getting advice to double up on carbs from her (fat) Diabetes nurse as recently as last year! 

Shocking.

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4 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

The fecking NHS has woken up to the cure at last. Talk about being late to the party!

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/11/milkshake-and-soup-diet-could-be-prescribed-to-treat-diabetes-7932795/

My mate's mother was still getting advice to double up on carbs from her (fat) Diabetes nurse as recently as last year! 

Shocking.

"fat free" milkshake?

I thought it was the fat that was good, carbs bad.

 

Since the sugar tax, i've gone from buying Cola to these 'yazoo' or 'Frijj' milk drinks. Calories are off the charts, but damned if im paying a quid for a can of coke. For some reason the price of shakes hasnt changed, so i assume theyre taxed like normal milk?

Edited by PatronizingGit

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There is very little excuse for having type 2 diabetes if you are able to use the internet. It only takes a few minutes of research to realise that the NHS advice on this is killing people. In the past people had a valid excuse but not any more.

I really don't want Pedohunter Watson to become the go-to health evangelist on every bloody radio and TV show though.

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Don't know if this is the right place but I suspect the  two are linked

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/11/dairy-in-moderation-is-good-for-heart-health-study-finds

Essentially dairy is now deemed to be good for you.

I am convinced that it is processed food that is bad for us. government and big food manufacturers to blame

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6 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

The fecking NHS has woken up to the cure at last. Talk about being late to the party!

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/11/milkshake-and-soup-diet-could-be-prescribed-to-treat-diabetes-7932795/

That's just being cruel.

Yes very low calorie diets will work if you can handle the torture.

If you have a body that has an impaired insulin reaction, don't eat carbs, then you won't have diabetes!

11 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

My mate's mother was still getting advice to double up on carbs from her (fat) Diabetes nurse as recently as last year! 

Shocking.

Yes absolutely, horrifying :PissedOff:

I gave up on diabetic nutritionists, as I became more ill after trying their "advice".

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From the many many dietary threads I have read over the years it all boils down to one thing IMO:

Sweetness is bad for you - whether sugar, artificial sweetener, fruit smoothies, beer, cider, wine, spirits, sweet fizzy drinks, sweets, cakes, or chocolate.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

From the many many dietary threads I have read over the years it all boils down to one thing IMO:

Sweetness is bad for you - whether sugar, artificial sweetener, fruit smoothies, beer, cider, wine, spirits, sweet fizzy drinks, sweets, cakes, or chocolate.

All carbs are converted to "sweetness" during digestion.

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1 minute ago, Lone Lurker said:

All carbs are converted to "sweetness" during digestion.

I don't think that gainsays my statement.  It is that instant rush that causes the problem.  If you eat an apple it comes with fibre and bulk that needs to be slowly broken down by the gut and absorbed over a longer period of time; if you turn it into a smoothie or a juice that work has already been done and it gets absorb nearly straight away giving the sugar spike.

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39 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

There is very little excuse for having type 2 diabetes if you are able to use the internet. It only takes a few minutes of research to realise that the NHS advice on this is killing people. In the past people had a valid excuse but not any more.

I really don't want Pedohunter Watson to become the go-to health evangelist on every bloody radio and TV show though.

This requires being open to the possibility that the advice is wrong and to go looking for alternatives though. For most, if it comes from the Government/BBC/NHS it's the word of Allah God.

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8 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't think that gainsays my statement.  It is that instant rush that causes the problem.  If you eat an apple it comes with fibre and bulk that needs to be slowly broken down by the gut and absorbed over a longer period of time; if you turn it into a smoothie or a juice that work has already been done and it gets absorb nearly straight away giving the sugar spike.

No it doesn't gainsay (lovely word) it, I hope I added to your statement.

It is the insulin response that causes the long term problems, all carbohydrates cause an insulin response.

Apple sugars are mostly fructose, which follow a different metabolic pathway than glucose, which does not require insulin.

I consider fructose to be almost as bad for humans as glucose, but that's for another discussion!

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3 minutes ago, Lone Lurker said:

No it doesn't gainsay (lovely word) it, I hope I added to your statement.

It is the insulin response that causes the long term problems, all carbohydrates cause an insulin response.

Apple sugars are mostly fructose, which follow a different metabolic pathway than glucose, which does not require insulin.

I consider fructose to be almost as bad for humans as glucose, but that's for another discussion!

Yes, I am very much not an expert on this sort of thing and really only know what I have read in threads like this and newspaper articles.  I try to take a simple message that I can apply to my diet without much effort and that is "avoid sweetness".   So I don't buy sweets, cakes, fizzy pop etc.  Though I do buy beer and lager; which I know is sweet even if the hops hide it, usually one or two spoonfuls per pint compared to over six for cider which is probably why the latter gives me a stinking hangover such that I very rarely drink it.

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1 hour ago, spygirl said:
 
 

 

But is it truley a public health scandal i.e. something that he NHS should be/can dealing with?

 


Front page of a paper yesterday about diabetes diet cure being on NHS.

Daily Mail

https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1039263093224886272/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1039263093224886272|twgr^373939313b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eveningexpress.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fwhat-the-papers-say-september-11%2F

Edited by sarahbell

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1 hour ago, PatronizingGit said:

"fat free" milkshake?

I thought it was the fat that was good, carbs bad.

 

Since the sugar tax, i've gone from buying Cola to these 'yazoo' or 'Frijj' milk drinks. Calories are off the charts, but damned if im paying a quid for a can of coke. For some reason the price of shakes hasnt changed, so i assume theyre taxed like normal milk?

just been poundland and its 3 cans of dr pepper for a quid and my favrite old jamaca 3 for a quid.the sugar tax doesnt seem to have had much impact there,i even got 8 wagon wheels for a quid.

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12 minutes ago, Kilham said:

This requires being open to the possibility that the advice is wrong and to go looking for alternatives though. For most, if it comes from the Government/BBC/NHS it's the word of Allah God.

Sort of.

But its not just limted to the UK's NHS/UKGIOV/BBC groupthink. Its the entire medicine/health thing.

Way too many people allowed to just keep their seats warm.

Way too little science in medicine. A lot of just mumbo jump/bad practices.

Look at stomach ulcers being cure by antibiotics. Look how resistant the world wide medical fuck up of stomach ulcers/zantac versus Helicobacter pylori.

Again, bad to the fat diabetes nurses - healthcare needs to get sacking laods of people.

 

 

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Too little science in most things now. Opinions and feelings come before evidence even when it's overwhelming. I believe the doc responsible for discovering the true cause of ulcers went through years of hell before it was grudgingly accepted.

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25 minutes ago, Kilham said:

Too little science in most things now. Opinions and feelings come before evidence even when it's overwhelming. I believe the doc responsible for discovering the true cause of ulcers went through years of hell before it was grudgingly accepted.

Well - jobs, wages, career progression and position i nthe NHS.

22 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

My Dad - diagnosed with diabetes at 50.

Got sicker and sicker. I told him to lose weight and reduce processed food - and if he lost weight he could reduce his meds.

He didn't believe me, cause his doctor and diabetes nurse didn't suggest it. They gave him the impression he just had to take the increasing amount of meds and there was nothing else he could do.

He got sicker, started getting nerve issues, had to undergo a particularly gruesome circumcision because of his diabetes, and finally got scared.

So I asked him, what shape are your doctor and diabetes nurse in? Yes, you guessed it - both fat bastards.

"So what the fuck do they know about being healthy?"

So he cut out the junk food at age 59, lost 3 stone and halfed his meds. Five years on, his numbers haven't gotten any worse. He's not even all that strict with his diet, just doesn't go overboard. Walks for an hour a day.

It's not rocket science. Most of this country are lazy fat greedy bastards. No offense.

Esp. diabetes nurses .....

Same thing when dealign with high blood pressure.  Take this, take that, huge work creation in montioring it, adjustign does, more meds, les smeds etc etc.

 

A simple - loose 2stone and exercise would get rid of all that cost and job creation.

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1 hour ago, The Idiocrat said:

The So-Called BBC needed a Labour politician to tell the truth: Labour's Tom Watson 'reversed' type-2 diabetes through diet and exercise

Bloody impressive effort mind.

I heard him this morning on Radio 4. He said he read a lot of scientific papers before deciding to stop eating sugar completely.

I don't believe sugar producers should be able to externalise the side-effects of their products on to the NHS. They should be taxed at a rate proportional to the cost to the exchequer, similar to alcohol. I would like to see them try. They would have every half-baked "free market" nitwit telling them they are communists or somesuch bollocks.

If you want something then you should have to pay for it. Seems broadly capitalistic enough for my broadly capitalistic tastes.

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4 hours ago, Kilham said:

Too little science in most things now. Opinions and feelings come before evidence even when it's overwhelming. I believe the doc responsible for discovering the true cause of ulcers went through years of hell before it was grudgingly accepted.

He did. It was a tale I was  told as a first year microbiology student back in 1984.

give it 34 years and guess what? The same crap non cure is still being pushed to treat stomach ulcers.

same story with diet. Science has known for years what makes a good and bad diet for CV risk, diabetes and the rest. And this knowledge is diametrically opposite to and even actively opposed by what the medical establishment tells people to do. It's fucking outrageous.

off to the swearbox for me.

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4 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

My Dad - diagnosed with diabetes at 50.

Got sicker and sicker. I told him to lose weight and reduce processed food - and if he lost weight he could reduce his meds.

He didn't believe me, cause his doctor and diabetes nurse didn't suggest it. They gave him the impression he just had to take the increasing amount of meds and there was nothing else he could do.

He got sicker, started getting nerve issues, had to undergo a particularly gruesome circumcision because of his diabetes, and finally got scared.

So I asked him, what shape are your doctor and diabetes nurse in? Yes, you guessed it - both fat bastards.

"So what the fuck do they know about being healthy?"

So he cut out the junk food at age 59, lost 3 stone and halfed his meds. Five years on, his numbers haven't gotten any worse. He's not even all that strict with his diet, just doesn't go overboard. Walks for an hour a day.

It's not rocket science. Most of this country are lazy fat greedy bastards. No offense.

I'd give you all my upvotes for the day if I could.

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