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spygirl

Microsoft - back to form

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It is actually rather amusing -- after all, Edge is absolutely without any doubt the most useless rubbish non-functional browser ever made*; anyone taking Microsoft's advice on which browser to use would shortly be buying a Mac as even the poor (IMO) Safari is nowhere near as bad as Edge.

[* and I used Lynx in the olden days.  That's how bad Edge is.]

Edited by dgul

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14 minutes ago, dgul said:

It is actually rather amusing -- after all, Edge is absolutely without any doubt the most useless rubbish non-functional browser ever made*; anyone taking Microsoft's advice on which browser to use would shortly be buying a Mac as even the poor (IMO) Safari is nowhere near as bad as Edge.

[* and I used Lynx in the olden days.  That's how bad Edge is.]

Youd think that ms would be able to deliver the best browser on windows.

It doesnt.

I have an explanation - ms dont have enough sw people. Cant keep existing ones, cant get new ones.

All products since 2005ish are shit - even by ms low hurdle.

Noone to design them, no one to get the implementation up n going.

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Youd think that ms would be able to deliver the best browser on windows.

It doesnt.

I have an explanation - ms dont have enough sw people. Cant keep existing ones, cant get new ones.

All products since 2005ish are shit - even by ms low hurdle.

Noone to design them, no one to get the implementation up n going.

Loved Windows 2000, liked XP, tolerated 8, 10 was an invasive bag of horse crap, tried it for 3 days on a new PC and then wiped it.

The only thing that may make me use it is when I cant run a piece of software I need in the future, but it will only be for that.

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13 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Youd think that ms would be able to deliver the best browser on windows.

It doesnt.

I have an explanation - ms dont have enough sw people. Cant keep existing ones, cant get new ones.

All products since 2005ish are shit - even by ms low hurdle.

Noone to design them, no one to get the implementation up n going.

When you shit can 1,000's of your own employees and outsource the work what a surprise when others leave or are not willing to join.

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9 minutes ago, onlyme said:

When you shit can 1,000's of your own employees and outsource the work what a surprise when others leave or are not willing to join.

I think ms have been ok to employyes least til 2010ish.

Just ms sp was stuck gor 10 yearsand there were other more exciting better paying cos.

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2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Loved Windows 2000, liked XP, tolerated 8, 10 was an invasive bag of horse crap, tried it for 3 days on a new PC and then wiped it.

The only thing that may make me use it is when I cant run a piece of software I need in the future, but it will only be for that.

Agree with this except, I never tolerated 8, and the evaluation of 10 was less than 3 days! (sadly an element of getting work done means I still have to use it).

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It is possible to completely disable Windows Update on Windows 10 though it takes work.

Since I did that it has been stable. Likewise I finally managed to disable updates on this Android phone and that is pretty flawless too.

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5 hours ago, DTMark said:

It is possible to completely disable Windows Update on Windows 10 though it takes work.

Since I did that it has been stable. Likewise I finally managed to disable updates on this Android phone and that is pretty flawless too.

Although Windows Update is not used to role out Windows 10 in my work environment the related Windows SCCM software used appears to be equally useless so I have never actually managed to receive a single update to the RTM version of Windows 10 originally installed on my laptop. Ironically one of the benefits of this scenario is I dont have much in the way of problems with the machine. It does, however,  seem utterly pointless having an update system that is supposed to make your system more secure but is so broken that it does the opposite.

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At the office I use Firefox, not that it's much better these days but I'm used to it and can run it from a usb stick if IT get stroppy.

You could use Internet Explorer 11 if you wish, it was installed but not default on windows 10, try typing Internet Explorer in the search box.

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As a casual user Windows 10 seems fine to me..  It has a few minor irritating quirks like always wanting to search the internet for stuff when you are just trying to do a basic file search but otherwise it’s just a nice plain boring platform to launch programs from..  which is what I want.

Web browser has been google chrome for about 20 years..  again, nice, simple and does the job.

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To be fair to Microsoft windows in one of the reasons personal computers are relatively cheap, I bought my first PC (IBM PC 5150) in 1982 with 512k memory, a floppy disk drive, mono screen and a keyboard it cost £2450 (half the price of my new XR3), It ran MS-DOS which wasn't really user friendly.

When windows came along it made PCs more attractive to the general population, sales rose, economies of scale came into play and more manufacturers, hence competition, joined the fray forcing pricing down and making PCs what they have become today, cheap and cheerful everyday devices.

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45 minutes ago, Option5 said:

To be fair to Microsoft windows in one of the reasons personal computers are relatively cheap, I bought my first PC (IBM PC 5150) in 1982 with 512k memory, a floppy disk drive, mono screen and a keyboard it cost £2450 (half the price of my new XR3), It ran MS-DOS which wasn't really user friendly.

When windows came along it made PCs more attractive to the general population, sales rose, economies of scale came into play and more manufacturers, hence competition, joined the fray forcing pricing down and making PCs what they have become today, cheap and cheerful everyday devices.

As a software company licensing the OS to other manufacturers created made a lot of sense and allowed penetration of the system way quicker into the market which made and still makes a lot of sense.

Apple are no better, marketing very overpriced hardware which is increasingly unserviceable, soldered in SSD's being one example. 

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15 minutes ago, onlyme said:

As a software company licensing the OS to other manufacturers created made a lot of sense and allowed penetration of the system way quicker into the market which made and still makes a lot of sense.

Apple are no better, marketing very overpriced hardware which is increasingly unserviceable, soldered in SSD's being one example. 

Mr Gates and friends were very shrewd keeping hold of the rights to an operating system based on one they bought off Seattle Computer Products for $25k.

Qdos (Quick and Dirty Operating System :))  which was based on CP/M became 86-DOS (which is what MS bought) then PC-DOS then MS-DOS.

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1 hour ago, Option5 said:

To be fair to Microsoft windows in one of the reasons personal computers are relatively cheap, I bought my first PC (IBM PC 5150) in 1982 with 512k memory, a floppy disk drive, mono screen and a keyboard it cost £2450 (half the price of my new XR3), It ran MS-DOS which wasn't really user friendly.

When windows came along it made PCs more attractive to the general population, sales rose, economies of scale came into play and more manufacturers, hence competition, joined the fray forcing pricing down and making PCs what they have become today, cheap and cheerful everyday devices.

I don't think it was particularly because windows was exceptional (though maybe it was..  I seem to remember DOS being just as good as very early versions of windows).

Microsoft changed the world because they were allowed to create a monopoly..  which forced standardisation across the entire market,  EVERYTHING had to be windows compatible,  making it easier for software developers to invest more in better software, hardware manufacturers to design for the next generation, and consumes to invest in something that was relatively future proof.

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13 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I don't think it was particularly because windows was exceptional (though maybe it was..  I seem to remember DOS being just as good as very early versions of windows).

Microsoft changed the world because they were allowed to create a monopoly..  which forced standardisation across the entire market,  EVERYTHING had to be windows compatible,  making it easier for software developers to invest more in better software, hardware manufacturers to design for the next generation, and consumes to invest in something that was relatively future proof.

DOS was OK, but for none geeks/typists it was the introduction in Windows 1.0 of the "X-Y Position Indicator for a Display System" (or mouse as it's known :)) that made computers accessible to the general population.

DOSBODS name has come true :D

Edited by Option5

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

I don't think it was particularly because windows was exceptional (though maybe it was..  I seem to remember DOS being just as good as very early versions of windows).

Microsoft changed the world because they were allowed to create a monopoly..  which forced standardisation across the entire market,  EVERYTHING had to be windows compatible,  making it easier for software developers to invest more in better software, hardware manufacturers to design for the next generation, and consumes to invest in something that was relatively future proof.

For sure, not exceptional at all and it was DOS that gave it the huge OS user base to launch windows into, all the competitors at the time though firewalled their OS/hardware so the vanilla hardware manufactures that could drive the price down all gravitated around MS product. MS ruled thanks to most other hardware/OS vendors trying to tie in their users with their own manufactured product. It scared Apple so much that they allowed some hardware to be manufactured by third party companies - Formac is one I can think of, but this was competition light and very thin on the ground. The monopoly was pretty much given to MS and once momentum and the user base builds to a certain point breaking that tie is very difficult. 

What is quite amazing really is that those first major apps - Spreadsheets, WP, DB, Graphics (vector, bitmap), etc are pretty much still the workhorses of most desktops - apart from all the internet stuff.

Edited by onlyme

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Bill Gates got rich off piracy. M$ were clever enough to not chase individuals that got themselves a freebie copy of Windoze. End result was that almost every potential employee knew how to use Windoze. Why would the employer buy anything else for them to use?

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On 13/09/2018 at 07:32, Libspero said:

As a casual user Windows 10 seems fine to me..  It has a few minor irritating quirks like always wanting to search the internet for stuff when you are just trying to do a basic file search but otherwise it’s just a nice plain boring platform to launch programs from..  which is what I want.

Web browser has been google chrome for about 20 years..  again, nice, simple and does the job.

Some achievement when it's only been out 10 years :D

Only jokingly mentioning that to say how seemingly ubiquitous these things are when they are only been around a relatively short time. 

I'm almost full on Linux these days, other than one laptop at home as my partner "needs" windows. 

Thankfully Microsoft lost the browser war, IE was a pile of crap but thankfully there never really seemed the pressure to conform. 

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Just had windows 10 close down my applications and restart the computer to do a bloody update. To be fair it's partly my fautl in the sense I've been declining the update for a long time now, but at what point do they think it's a good idea to close down all your applications and force a restart?

18 minutes ago, gilf said:

Some achievement when it's only been out 10 years :D

Only jokingly mentioning that to say how seemingly ubiquitous these things are when they are only been around a relatively short time. 

I'm almost full on Linux these days, other than one laptop at home as my partner "needs" windows. 

Thankfully Microsoft lost the browser war, IE was a pile of crap but thankfully there never really seemed the pressure to conform. 

Which flavour of Linux are you using? Any issues with hardware?

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On 12/09/2018 at 21:12, InLikeFlynn said:

I've recently installed mint on a laptop (dual boot) which was struggling with win 10. I like it, but I'm having wifi issues where it's connected fine, but it just loses bandwidth every so often. Not sure how to sort it yet, but I guess it's going to be a learning curve :)

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12 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

Just had windows 10 close down my applications and restart the computer to do a bloody update. To be fair it's partly my fautl in the sense I've been declining the update for a long time now, but at what point do they think it's a good idea to close down all your applications and force a restart?

Which flavour of Linux are you using? Any issues with hardware?

Mainly Linux Mint, with the standard Cinnamon desktop. 

Got that on my work desktop machine and three of my laptops. Also running Manjaro (KDE Plasma) on another laptop, I really like it but it's painfully slow to boot and it's just not as seamless as Mint. 

Not had a single hardware issue on Mint other than the latest gen of finger print readers on Thinkpads don't have a driver, this really isn't a problem for me.  

The only issue really is my main client at work sends me all sort of manner of crappy MS formats, so Gant charts, Visio documents, I just ignore them as nine times out of ten it's bullshit management people trying to justify their existence with a fancy picture. There is normally an online viewer or converter if I get desperate (possibly a bit of software to do it but never been bothered enough to look for one)

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17 minutes ago, Admiral Pepe said:

Just had windows 10 close down my applications and restart the computer to do a bloody update. To be fair it's partly my fautl in the sense I've been declining the update for a long time now, but at what point do they think it's a good idea to close down all your applications and force a restart?

Which flavour of Linux are you using? Any issues with hardware?

My preferred flavour of Linux is Ubuntu, I run a media server, Gigabyte Brix  GB-BXBT-280, which is about as basic as it gets. I have another, same hardware running windows 10.

Ubuntu found all the hardware and loaded drivers accordingly when I first set it up, Windows 10 needed assistance with the wireless card and the video adapter.

Ubuntu is slightly faster but the hardware is the main bottleneck.

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44 minutes ago, gilf said:

Some achievement when it's only been out 10 years :D

Only jokingly mentioning that to say how seemingly ubiquitous these things are when they are only been around a relatively short time. 

I had to google that to believe you.. funny how you can miss remember stuff.  I thought it was released around the time I was at uni in 2000 O.o

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