Migration Advisory Committee - EU migrants

[spygirl 9,399]

Big hoohaa on this mornigns news.

EU migrants pay more tax than they take!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45556246

'The report said there was no evidence that increased European migration has damaged life in the UK.

It concluded that EU migrants paid more in tax than they took in benefits, contributed more to the NHS workforce than the healthcare they accessed, and had no effect on crime rates.

Chair of the MAC, Professor Alan Manning, said the overall the impacts of EEA migration had not had the "big costs that some people claim", but it had not had "big benefits" either.'

Bullshit. What about all those Swedish and Dutch Somlais FFS>

Second sent4ence is a bit strange with the inclusiion of contribution more to workforce of the NHS. BS.

Heres' the report:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/740991/Final_EEA_report_to_go_to_WEB.PDF

Quick search for tax credits:

'This publication only contains figures on numbers of claimants and not total expenditure.

There are ad hoc statistical releases that contain some information on this but nothing systematic.

We have been unable to access the data necessary to use actual benefit payments to assess whether migrants are more or less likely to be in receipt of benefits or tax credits'

Then the whole report is a fucking joke then.

Thre is data on using National Isurnace numbers. You can then corelate that against tax paid - see the earlier thread on here.

You can then look at whetehr the EUers has dependent kids and put in 5k/kid for education.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Masked Tulip 16,402]

Fab. We need more.

[One percent 21,222]

I’ve got to page 25. The ‘evidence’ appears to have been produced by VIs.

Then, On page 25, they quote research papers, most of which are very dated, especially give the rate of change. Many are ten years old, or older.  For example, there is this from the guardian 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/number-of-romanians-and-bulgarians-in-uk-rises-413000

last year the official figures (so those will be vastly underestimated) were half a million Romanians and Bulgarians in the U.K.  they were only allowed access in 2014. So in less than three years, half a million (official figures remember) has made their way here. 

Dont tell me that those numbers have not had a detrimental impact. Just on infrastructure and services, never mind the downward pressure on wages. 

So, half way in and it is clear that it is a pile of bollox. 

[spygirl 9,399]

2 minutes ago, One percent said:

I’ve got to page 25. The ‘evidence’ appears to have been produced by VIs.

Then, On page 25, they quote research papers, most of which are very dated, especially give the rate of change. Many are ten years old, or older.  For example, there is this from the guardian 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/number-of-romanians-and-bulgarians-in-uk-rises-413000

last year the official figures (so those will be vastly underestimated) were half a million Romanians and Bulgarians in the U.K.  they were only allowed access in 2014. So in less than three years, half a million (official figures remember) has made their way here. 

Dont tell me that those numbers have not had a detrimental impact. Just on infrastructure and services, never mind the downward pressure on wages. 

So, half way in and it is clear that it is a pile of bollox. 

And dont tell me they are all earning 60k+.

Its wank.

[One percent 21,222]

Just now, spygirl said:

And dont tell me they are all earning 60k+.

Its wank.

The more they do this, the more people will realise that they are being lied to by the establishment. On the whole then, I’m ok with it. 

[Game_of_Homes 463]

All smoke and mirrors. Basically immigrants from the "old" EU countries (Germany, Holland, France etc) generally pay in more tax than they take out in benefits. The newer EU migrants from Eastern Europe take out more in benefits/NHS/schooling etc than they pay in tax and NI.

Edited September 18 by Game_of_Homes

[mattydread 552]

6 minutes ago, One percent said:

I’ve got to page 25. The ‘evidence’ appears to have been produced by VIs.

Then, On page 25, they quote research papers, most of which are very dated, especially give the rate of change. Many are ten years old, or older.  For example, there is this from the guardian 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/number-of-romanians-and-bulgarians-in-uk-rises-413000

last year the official figures (so those will be vastly underestimated) were half a million Romanians and Bulgarians in the U.K.  they were only allowed access in 2014. So in less than three years, half a million (official figures remember) has made their way here. 

Dont tell me that those numbers have not had a detrimental impact. Just on infrastructure and services, never mind the downward pressure on wages. 

So, half way in and it is clear that it is a pile of bollox. 

Spot on.

I always hear the 3.5million muzzer figure. Haha, go figure.

[spygirl 9,399]

Just now, Game_of_Homes said:

All smoke and mirrors. Basically immigrants the "old" EU countries generally pay in more tax than they take out in benefits. The newer EU migrants from Eastern Europe take out more in benefits/NHS/schooling etc than they pay in tax and NI.

Old EU is probably balanced/neutral - but most would have arrived before tax credits, so would have been earning.

Mrs spy is probably neutral if you could her popping 2 kids in the UK v. what shes' paid. They were my kids too, so we, as a unit, are one the very few paying net tax whilst kids are at school.

Id guess the average EE on tax credit is costing ~50k/family/year. In cash.

 

[reformed nice guy 51]

Has anyone ever done a Freedom of Information request to the DWP asking for total tax credit payments to non UK issued NI numbers?

A google search didnt obviously turn up anything

[Hopeful 6,750]

Rather simplistic I know, but,

As far as I'm concerned the only thing that matters is if an immigrant's presence means more money flows into the UK than out of it, otherwise we should use our homegrown first and foremost and develop their skills in the areas we need them. Then, when we are awash with cash, we can decide whether to be more charitable.

Edited September 18 by Hopeful

[dgul 5,287]

This is just smoke & mirrors using averages.

Even if the 'average*' person is fine, that doesn't mean you should ignore those that aren't fine.

[* I don't believe this -- or, at least, the income distribution won't be normal, so you shouldn't be using the arithmetic mean.]

[ThePiltdownMan 307]

I get the feeling the elites are really going to use Brexit against us in the future. We'll be importing low-IQ populations that by the hundreds of thousands, and whenever it is opposed they will counter it with "but this is what you voted for in 2016" etc.

[whitevanman 2,917]

I don't care if migrants pay less or more tax than they take out. It's our country and they can fuck off regardless.

[eight 3,654]

44 minutes ago, ThePiltdownMan said:

I get the feeling the elites are really going to use Brexit against us in the future. We'll be importing low-IQ populations that by the hundreds of thousands, and whenever it is opposed they will counter it with "but this is what you voted for in 2016" etc.

Maybe that was the plan all along. The claim will be that immigration just is and has to be, and you've cut off the European route, so you cant complain about getting a load of Bangladeshis, or whatever.

[spygirl 9,399]

bbc piccy on story.

 

[sarahbell 3,328]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

.

You can then look at whetehr the EUers has dependent kids and put in 5k/kid for education

 

I'm sure they blamed house price rises on migrants this morning

[spygirl 9,399]

Highest rated comment:

'If we require skilled people from overseas after Brexit
I welcome them in.

What we don’t need is an influx of unskilled migrants that
further stretches our resources.

Contributing very little to society, if choosing to work,
often in low paid unskilled jobs.
Propped up by the tax payer. '

Oh dear.

Peopl thinkign for themselves, not listenigng to the highly trained academics whove just produced al oad of BS.

 

Again, simple solution:

EUer, under 30, no dependencies? No problem - 2  or 5 year work permit.

No right to claim any benefits bar JSA and then leave after 6 months unemployed.

EUer over 30, with dependents? No minmium age but must self support. Again no benefits and charge 8k NHS / year plus schooling at cost for each kid.

Same rules applies  - 56 months JSA then out if no job.

Outside of EU? The same - this would allow students to stay 2 years after graduating.

Over 30, outside of EU? Minimum wage of 50k. Same rules of any dependent.

Anyone wanting to recruit some who does not make the salary could offer less - say 30k - but  must offer a guarantor on benefit and the person leaving.

 

 

SO, there you  - 6 simple lines on post Becit migration that 80% of Brits will be happy with.

No mutli-page report with a disclaimer saying 'We dont have the full data, so well make it up.

And, by setting a income, no fucker has to decide which jobs are in demand or not.

 

 

 

[Malthus 1,381]

2 hours ago, Game_of_Homes said:

All smoke and mirrors. Basically immigrants from the "old" EU countries (Germany, Holland, France etc) generally pay in more tax than they take out in benefits. The newer EU migrants from Eastern Europe take out more in benefits/NHS/schooling etc than they pay in tax and NI.

I’ve never met a German, Dutch or French migrant in NI 

Plenty of Portuguese (who’ve never been to Portugal) , Eastern Europeans , Roma ian’s 

[One percent 21,222]

4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Highest rated comment:

'If we require skilled people from overseas after Brexit
I welcome them in.

What we don’t need is an influx of unskilled migrants that
further stretches our resources.

Contributing very little to society, if choosing to work,
often in low paid unskilled jobs.
Propped up by the tax payer. '

Oh dear.

Peopl thinkign for themselves, not listenigng to the highly trained academics whove just produced al oad of BS.

 

Again, simple solution:

EUer, under 30, no dependencies? No problem - 2  or 5 year work permit.

No right to claim any benefits bar JSA and then leave after 6 months unemployed.

EUer over 30, with dependents? No minmium age but must self support. Again no benefits and charge 8k NHS / year plus schooling at cost for each kid.

Same rules applies  - 56 months JSA then out if no job.

Outside of EU? The same - this would allow students to stay 2 years after graduating.

Over 30, outside of EU? Minimum wage of 50k. Same rules of any dependent.

Anyone wanting to recruit some who does not make the salary could offer less - say 30k - but  must offer a guarantor on benefit and the person leaving.

 

 

SO, there you  - 6 simple lines on post Becit migration that 80% of Brits will be happy with.

No mutli-page report with a disclaimer saying 'We dont have the full data, so well make it up.

And, by setting a income, no fucker has to decide which jobs are in demand or not.

 

 

 

Top post spy. I fail to understand, as it’s so simple, why and how the establishment cannot come up with something similar and as simple. 

Perhaps it’s because they don’t want to. It’s the only plausible explanation. 

As a side issue, a mate of mine whilst a student, did her third year of a four year degree working in America and studying at an American university. All fine and dandy on a student visa. 

Then, on graduating, the American firm wanted her back.  The hoops to get a temporary work permit. Anyhow, she did but at the end of it, when the firm wanted her to continue, America say no and that was the end of it. 

See, it’s not that difficult. Perhaps trump could send someone to explain it. 

[dgul 5,287]

37 minutes ago, spygirl said:

bbc piccy on story.

 

#1 can stay.

[Melchett 2,472]

3 hours ago, One percent said:

The more they do this, the more people will realise that they are being lied to by the establishment. On the whole then, I’m ok with it. 

The problem is people like my strident SJW Corbynista niece swallow it hook line and sinker then shout it back at anyone who doesnt immediately toe the party line.

These people cannot be reasoned with and they absolutely will not stop until they have destroyed our country.

[eight 3,654]

Just now, Melchett said:

These people cannot be reasoned with and they absolutely will not stop until they have destroyed our country.

You make them sound like some kind of unfeeling cyborgs.

[Melchett 2,472]

1 minute ago, eight said:

You make them sound like some kind of unfeeling cyborgs.

Did I? Im sure that was unintentional. Not. 

 

I actually tried to push closer to the original quote but after a minute or so I couldnt be arsed any more and left it at that. It clearly worked so fine.

[gilf 773]

58 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Again, simple solution:

EUer, under 30, no dependencies? No problem - 2  or 5 year work permit.

No right to claim any benefits bar JSA and then leave after 6 months unemployed.

EUer over 30, with dependents? No minmium age but must self support. Again no benefits and charge 8k NHS / year plus schooling at cost for each kid.

Same rules applies  - 56 months JSA then out if no job.

Outside of EU? The same - this would allow students to stay 2 years after graduating.

Over 30, outside of EU? Minimum wage of 50k. Same rules of any dependent.

Anyone wanting to recruit some who does not make the salary could offer less - say 30k - but  must offer a guarantor on benefit and the person leaving.

SO, there you  - 6 simple lines on post Becit migration that 80% of Brits will be happy with.

No mutli-page report with a disclaimer saying 'We dont have the full data, so well make it up.

And, by setting a income, no fucker has to decide which jobs are in demand or not.

 

 

 

Said this in relation to NHS but same for any benefit, simple one line solution. 

Minimum 10 years continuous residency in the UK before you can claim any benefit whatsoever. Children born here will have accumulated enough credit by 16, up until that point any claims needed for their welfare are done so via their parents (assuming they have the 10 year residency requirement).

---- 

As for the report, all I know is life in the UK is considerably worse than it was in the past, not all, but much of it is due to increased pressure on services due to immigration. We are getting less for our tax input (pot holes, longer wait times in NHS, transport services over capacity and so on), even if it were true that they are net in regards to tax in to the system and benefits drawn down on an individual basis that's a very poor measure of how much they cost the UK. 

 

[Great Guy 4,415]

I've been having email correspondence with the economics editor of a well known newspaper about this very subject...

I just don't see how the average EU migrant makes a net contribution to the UK. You need to be in the top 20% of taxpayers to pay more in tax than you take out. I don't see how the average EU migrant is anywhere close to being a top 20% taxpayer. 

Even if EU migrants pay more in tax than they take out so what? Their presence makes the quality of life in the UK poorer. We don't want the congestion/ lack of space/ expensive housing associated with high migration.

I was bored at work today and I decided to guessestimate the cost of congestion to the economy. Say there are 20,000,000 workers in the UK and migration adds on ten minutes a day to travel times. That's 3 million hours lost a day due to migration based congestion... At £10 an hour migrations cost £30m a day... Or about £8 billion a year.... 

As I said to the economics editor, the real measure of wealth isn't total GDP but GDP per capita.