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sarahbell

Uk 9th largest manufacturer in world

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BBC news story today. 
 

UK Manufacturing Statistics

Manufacturing contributes £6.7 trillion to the global economy. Contrary to widespread perceptions, UK manufacturing is thriving, with the UK currently the world’s eighth largest industrial nation. If current growth trends continue, the UK will break into the top five by 2021. In the UK, manufacturing makes up 11% of GVA, 44% of total UK exports, 70% of business R&D, and directly employs 2.6 million people.

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I wonder how it is calculated though. Take the new MG car, it is designed in the UK, but made in China. Does that count to UK figures?

 

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Bear in mind hat the UK is  a medium sized, developed country.

We should be up there - thats why all the scummers are coming here (benefits not work).

What happened in the 80s is that mass manufacturer ended. Hardly unsurprising when you think of shit like British Leyland.

Ive no opinion on Thatcher and manufacturing. A lot of people confuse subsidised crap like British leyland being opened up to compete with Toyota as down to Thatcher. It happened whne she was in power.

The biggest issue with Thatchers idea is that mass financial sector/services would provide jobs for the useless employees. Well .. endowment and 2007 saw to that. And computers is seeing off finsec.

 

 

2 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

And yet, by 1997, we briefly, after clawing our way back through the 1990s, had a roughly balanced trade situation.

When I look back to the 1990s, affordable housing, controlled immigration, real wages actually going up instead of down, I think to labours 'things can only get better' song...Whenever I head that now, it always has a macabre, even sinister undertone to it. 

Seems the most pressing political issue of the 1990s was 'stop new roads being built'

Oh, to go back to those days!

What happened i n1997 ...

 

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Bear in mind hat the UK is  a medium sized, developed country.

We should be up there - thats why all the scummers are coming here (benefits not work).

What happened in the 80s is that mass manufacturer ended. Hardly unsurprising when you think of shit like British Leyland.

Ive no opinion on Thatcher and manufacturing. A lot of people confuse subsidised crap like British leyland being opened up to compete with Toyota as down to Thatcher. It happened whne she was in power.

The biggest issue with Thatchers idea is that mass financial sector/services would provide jobs for the useless employees. Well .. endowment and 2007 saw to that. And computers is seeing off finsec.

 

 

What happened i n1997 ...

 

BvEkcWl.jpg

 

I think giving the bank of England 'independence' was one of the greatest mistakes this country has made.

I can see why politicians wanted it...they get exonerated from blame, because the treasury/chancellor doesnt control rates, whilst a city controlled central bank is 'impartial', but judged on the results, how can BoE indepedence be declared anything but a complete failure. 20 years of falling real wages. Largest asset bubbles (and busts) in history. 

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1 minute ago, PatronizingGit said:

BvEkcWl.jpg

 

I think giving the bank of England 'independence' was one of the greatest mistakes this country has made.

I can see why politicians wanted it...they get exonerated from blame, because the treasury/chancellor doesnt control rates, whilst a city controlled central bank is 'impartial', but judged on the results, how can BoE indepedence be declared anything but a complete failure. 20 years of falling real wages. Largest asset bubbles (and busts) in history. 

No.

Its was the triparate regulation.

Basically, they put 3 people in charge - BoE, treasury,  FSA.

FSA was new and clueless.

BoE was screaming to throttle down debt creation by the banks, he ones thaat Brown was invovled with.

Th Treasury was controlled by Brown and Balls so they were preventing anything happening, lwtting debt rise >10% a year from 2000-2007. Lwetting RBS get to 4xthe size ofthe UK economy FFS.

 

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6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Bear in mind hat the UK is  a medium sized, developed country.

We should be up there - thats why all the scummers are coming here (benefits not work).

What happened in the 80s is that mass manufacturer ended. Hardly unsurprising when you think of shit like British Leyland.

Ive no opinion on Thatcher and manufacturing. A lot of people confuse subsidised crap like British leyland being opened up to compete with Toyota as down to Thatcher. It happened whne she was in power.

The biggest issue with Thatchers idea is that mass financial sector/services would provide jobs for the useless employees. Well .. endowment and 2007 saw to that. And computers is seeing off finsec.

 

 

What happened i n1997 ...

 

Leyland, crap as they were, we no worse than the French & Italian offerings of the time. 

Only they remain because the government maintained interest in them, and French/Italian consumers are more 'nationalistic' 

Im not sure Thatcher really understood the beast she unleashed when de-regulating the city. As 'the daughter of a shopkeeper' and a libertarian/Powellite, economically, i think her economic worldview was no more developed than lower taxes and regulations = greater growth. I highly doubt she understood why the financial sector and banking are 'different' 

Similar to her changing views on Europe/EU, I think she was perhaps somewhat naive in some areas. 

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

No.

Its was the triparate regulation.

Basically, they put 3 people in charge - BoE, treasury,  FSA.

FSA was new and clueless.

BoE was screaming to throttle down debt creation by the banks, he ones thaat Brown was invovled with.

Th Treasury was controlled by Brown and Balls so they were preventing anything happening, lwtting debt rise >10% a year from 2000-2007. Lwetting RBS get to 4xthe size ofthe UK economy FFS.

 

I dont deny any of that...The BoE is independent in legal form only. Their targets, the data they base their targets on and the MPC balance of members all Central government appointed'...but dont expect the MSM to mention that whenever the figures are headed in the wrong direction. Indeed, I remember eddie george of Mervyn king saying something like Gordon Brown couldnt tell a business cycle apart from a motor cycle. 

My point was more that if the economy is failing people, they can point at the BoE and blame them, saying 'theyre independent now'

 

Same reason they want all these devolved governments...NHS failing in Wales..its the local governments fault.

Central government passes a few anti-free speech laws and spends the rest of the day on golf course/with mistress/ being dined by arab 'investors' 

Same reason they loved the EU for immigration. If I had a quid for everytime a politician said "we'd love to cut immigration, but its out of our hands...its the EU''

Well, now we're out, and they don't have that excuse anymore, and suddenly the 'we'd love to cut immigration' has changed to 'we cant cut immigration' 

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3 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

Leyland, crap as they were, we no worse than the French & Italian offerings of the time. 

Only they remain because the government maintained interest in them, and French/Italian consumers are more 'nationalistic' 

Im not sure Thatcher really understood the beast she unleashed when de-regulating the city. As 'the daughter of a shopkeeper' and a libertarian/Powellite, economically, i think her economic worldview was no more developed than lower taxes and regulations = greater growth. I highly doubt she understood why the financial sector and banking are 'different' 

Similar to her changing views on Europe/EU, I think she was perhaps somewhat naive in some areas. 

No, they were worse.

The outcome for all Uks and Europes protected sectors were the same - employment collapsed as the shit was exposed to the liks  of Toyota and Honda..

Same for coal. Germany and France coal fields had exactly the same outcome as the UK ones - no more mines.

As UK found out, the city was only partially degeulated as UKGOV ended up bailing out the banks. Thats shold have never happened - its ws Brown bailing out his own stupidity.

Look a tthe timescale:

1987 - finsec deegualtion.

1997 - building societies demute.

2007 - 80% of uk banks by lending blow up.

UK wilk be feelign the effect of those banks blowing up and the new regulation for the next 20. Just look at number of mortgages.

Just go to Bradford (Bradford + Bingley), Halifax etc etc. These wre big regional employers. Non left.

Ditto - in a small way to me - Scarborough building society - employed ~400 people, offered laons i nthe area.

Bang!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

Despite the decline since the 1970s, when manufacturing contributed 25% of UK GDP, the UK is currently the eighth largest manufacturing nation in the world.

https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/

Well f*** me sideways! Betwen the start of theis thread and second post we've gone up from 9th to 8th!

Fast progress!

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1 hour ago, PatronizingGit said:

And yet, by 1997, we briefly, after clawing our way back through the 1990s, had a roughly balanced trade situation.

When I look back to the 1990s, affordable housing, controlled immigration, real wages actually going up instead of down, I think to labours 'things can only get better' song...Whenever I head that now, it always has a macabre, even sinister undertone to it. 

Seems the most pressing political issue of the 1990s was 'stop new roads being built'

Oh, to go back to those days!

The first couple of years of the 90s were rough. We were coming out of the back end of the late 80s crash and, even though house prices had come back down, interest rates were high, companies were going bust left right and centre and things were miserable economically speaking . The situation was made way worse by us joining the ERM in 1990, after which interest rates had to be jacked up way above where they should have been to defend the value of the pound (and keep it in the allowed range vs the Deutschmark). In 1992 however, George Soros did us a massive service - and shot himself in the foot, albeit with a 2 billion pound profit bullet - and forced us out. Interest rates dropped immediately and it was as is if sun had come out from behind the clouds for the first time in 20 years. I kid you not, as a small business owner at the time, the economic situation changed overnight from no-one wanting to do business to all the clients I had stacked up sitting on their thumbs suddenly wanting to sign deals and get moving. The rest of the 90s were a blast and I still can't for the life of me understand why it's still called "Black" Wednesday. It should be called "Fucking Awesome, Common Sense Wins, Sod You EU" day. It's probably also why Gordon Brown refused to let Blair take us into the Euro - imagine where we'd be today if that hadn't happened!

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2 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

 It's probably also why Gordon Brown refused to let Blair take us into the Euro - imagine where we'd be today if that hadn't happened!

we would be knee deep with east europeans,oh wait....

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6 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

It's probably also why Gordon Brown refused to let Blair take us into the Euro - imagine where we'd be today if that hadn't happened!

Would have been better off in the Euro.

No money printing to bail out idiots and banks.

Housing market would have collpased.

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4 minutes ago, Fischer said:

Would have been better off in the Euro.

No money printing to bail out idiots and banks.

Housing market would have collpased.

Yes, and half the country would be unemployed and the other half would be bankrupt. Like it or not, keeping the big banks solvent - which would not have been possible without the BoE essentially printing money - was what stopped us going under. I also remember the 1970s and the IMF bailout, it wasn't pretty.

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4 minutes ago, Fischer said:

Would have been better off in the Euro.

No money printing to bail out idiots and banks.

Housing market would have collpased.

so no european banks have been bailed out nor have they printed money ?

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1 minute ago, TheBlueCat said:

Yes, and half the country would be unemployed and the other half would be bankrupt. Like it or not, keeping the big banks solvent - which would not have been possible without the BoE essentially printing money - was what stopped us going under. I also remember the 1970s and the IMF bailout, it wasn't pretty.

another reason to not borrow to much,its just a matter of time until the shit hits the fan

2 minutes ago, Fischer said:

Talk about hyperbole.

I'll leave you to it.

it would hit a lot of people i agree,however some good will come of it.lots would go home.and we will survive .

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12 minutes ago, Fischer said:

Talk about hyperbole.

I'll leave you to it.

It's not hyperbole, at least not that much. The Greek unemployment rate topped out at nearly 30% and they were in less of a financial hole than we were. It's pretty reasonable to assume the UK rate would have gone higher. Also don't forget that the UK rate peaked at 12% as recently as the 80s. Again, I was there, and 12% was awful, imagine what 3 times that would be like. On the bankruptcy side, the choice the government would have had to make without the ability to manufacture bonds as collateral would have been between allowing RBS, HBOS, Northern Rock, A&L, B&B and others to fail - likely bankrupting many of their depositors - and borrowing the money from the IMF/Eurozone rescue fund. If they'd gone with the latter then, as per Greece/Ireland/Portugal they would then have had to cut government spending by some huge amount (I've seen figures as high as 40% for that) in order to make the interest payments and, likely, as terms for the loan in the first place. People don't seem to realise how much of a hole we were in back in 2008 and how narrowly we escaped it. I was no fan of using QE as a direct bailout for a bunch of bankers (I still think may of the people running those institutions should now be in jail) or to cover government spending (almost all of the bonds bought as part of QE were gilts) but even I admit it was, in the time available, a much lesser evil than what the Eurozone members had to go through. 

Edited by TheBlueCat
RBS not RBC - wrong goddam country!

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the eurozone is well fked,even mighty germany has its on the hook.look at rates of unemployment in spain,italy,greece just a matter of time.im hopeing we get out then get the blame for the shitstorm thats been building since before 2008

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2 hours ago, PatronizingGit said:

I think giving the bank of England 'independence' was one of the greatest mistakes this country has made.

Interests rates are political, so it was disingenuous to pretend that they shouldn't be. ISTR at the time of independence that a lot of Tory voices were calling it a mistake. Now that the BoE is "independent", we find the appointee who makes the supposedly apolitical decisions has a political flavour after all, but we can't vote him out, 'cause that would mean he is not independent.

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8th or 9th place doesn't seem to be that much to brag about - considering the hype.

According to the 2017 chart below the UK is right down there with the industrial no-hoper countries in terms of "Industry (including construction), value added (% of GDP)" - the UK is even below ZimbabweThat even includes construction.  The little side chart indicates that upto 2017 the UK has been in steep decline in those terms since at least 1960.

It would also be interesting to see the rankings in per capita terms as it's no good ranking up your position by flooding the country with immigrants and doling out trillions of freshly printed money to them just to boost the statistics.

 

Quote

 

Manufacturing by itself in the 2017 chart below for "Manufacturing, value added (% of GDP)" gives a similar message which is down with the no-hoper manufacturing countries including Zimbabwe, Bhutan, Capo Verde, Jamaica, Mongolia and even Greece and so on.  Again the UK being in steep decline since 1960.

 

Quote

 

Edited by twocents

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