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wherebee

How to make democracy work

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6 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Been thinking about the cycle where democracy always leads to collapse and dictatorship due to the FSA voting themselves free shit.  How would we create democracy which actually lasted?

 

My suggestions:

  • No leader of the country or a political party without a least one living child
  • Immigrants do not get a vote for 6 years after date of arrival
  • You get one vote for each 1000 pounds in INCOME tax you paid in the previous year - entirely possible now with data systems
  • Voting age raised to 21, unless you have served in the armed forces, in which case you get the right to vote after a year of service
  • No donations over 1000 pounds allowed from any source (including the EU).  Any breaches taken out of the personal assets of the elected official.
  • All elected officials must publish their tax returns online.  Public allowed to challenge.  Special anti-corruption unit to target MP's and councillors (see ICAC in Hong Kong)
  • The ballot paper has a simple addition question on it each time (i.e. what is 3+16).  You get it wrong, spoiled ballot.

 

The legislature could just be made up of people chosen at random to do one year in the commons, like jury service. That way you don't get career politicians, and you don't get all sorts of cynical horse trading for personal advancement.

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9 minutes ago, One percent said:

MPs can only serve two terms. Their salary is based on the average. Pension based on the average. No slacking off doing other jobs political lobbyists banned 

No.

Make the pension defined contribution.

 

12 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Been thinking about the cycle where democracy always leads to collapse and dictatorship due to the FSA voting themselves free shit.  How would we create democracy which actually lasted?

 

My suggestions:

  • No leader of the country or a political party without a least one living child
  • Immigrants do not get a vote for 6 years after date of arrival
  • You get one vote for each 1000 pounds in INCOME tax you paid in the previous year - entirely possible now with data systems
  • Voting age raised to 21, unless you have served in the armed forces, in which case you get the right to vote after a year of service
  • No donations over 1000 pounds allowed from any source (including the EU).  Any breaches taken out of the personal assets of the elected official.
  • All elected officials must publish their tax returns online.  Public allowed to challenge.  Special anti-corruption unit to target MP's and councillors (see ICAC in Hong Kong)
  • The ballot paper has a simple addition question on it each time (i.e. what is 3+16).  You get it wrong, spoiled ballot.

 

Why put the armed forces on some special pedestal?

Surely a better solution would be ban all people employed by the state from voting?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No.

Make the pension defined contribution.

 

Why put the armed forces on some special pedestal?

Surely a better solution would be ban all people employed by the state from voting?

 

 

because they are the ones sent off to die by the elected representatives. Plus, they tend to be a bit more realistic in terms of BULLSHIT detection.  

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2 minutes ago, wherebee said:

because they are the ones sent off to die by the elected representatives. Plus, they tend to be a bit more realistic in terms of BULLSHIT detection.  

A bit too 'Our heroes' ish.

More squaddies die in RTA during peace time than during war. Death rate plummets when they are deployed - no cars, no bars.

To address your conrns about beign sent abroad then surely putting Pols kids into the frontline troops would suffice.

And having a clear objective going aborad which, if failed to achieves, results in the PM/leaders being failed for treason.

Or Pls being forced to live in the counry theyve fought a war with. Im sure Blairs would be OK in Iraq.

Stuff like the stupid legal cases for NI and Iraq would be best served by putting Pols o ntrial.

 

 

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The acknowledgement that putting something to a vote doesn't necessarily make it morally correct.

The creation of a written constitution granting fundamentals rights and specific limitations on government power

Stop the government granting monopolies to itself or third parties by royal charters.

Members of parliament employed part time without remuneration, to debate purely constitutional matters or matters of national defence and emergency, not make work for former solicitors and legal types.

Hold government organisations to the same legal standards as everyone else, i.e. funding for government programmes must be provided through voluntary contribution, not through threats and extortion, and must not be run in fraudulent or ponzi type financing structure.

Disband the armed forces and allow citizens to possess firearms and participate in a voluntary militia.

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Immigrants don't get a vote ever unless they acquire citizenship. My Spanish friend lived in UK 30+ years can't vote. So don't understand your only 6 year barrier. If said immigrants do become fully British then dangerous to say all British are equal but some are more equal than others. 

One vote per 1000 income tax. Rich people get more votes. Think we tried that in 18th century are we really going back there? 

Voting age goes up from 18 to 21. Is there a reason for that? Being a paid killer for HMG shouldn't get you a pass on that. 

All elected officials to publish tax details. This is a killary pet project she really wants it. If she's for anything I'm against it just on general principle. 

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3 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said:

The legislature could just be made up of people chosen at random to do one year in the commons, like jury service. That way you don't get career politicians, and you don't get all sorts of cynical horse trading for personal advancement.

This is real democracy.

You have met most people though. They're fricking idiots.

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8 minutes ago, snaga said:

Ban religion from politics.

Ban religion from all aspects of public life. Nuke it from orbit, as it were. It’s the only way.

All religion is about saying we’re gods special chosen people and you’re not (then extrapolated to greater or lesser degrees). How can that ever be compatible with a fair and equitable society?

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1 minute ago, Melchett said:

Ban religion from all aspects of public life. Nuke it from orbit, as it were. It’s the only way.

All religion is about saying we’re gods special chosen people and you’re not (then extrapolated to greater or lesser degrees). How can that ever be compatible with a fair and equitable society?

People resist having their faith condemned, whatever faith that is.

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If we must have democracy (maybe, i'd like to try doing away with it on an experimental basis) first thing i'd do is get rid of 'party politics' 

Ban politicial parties. Do away with the herd mentality. Either you vote for an individual, or you don't vote at all. 

Borrowing can only be for time periods up to one parliament (<5 years). Sure, they'll say it will cost more/be a higher rate, but, i suspect as they have to be a lot more careful, the end cost will be a lot less. 

If turnout isnt above 50%, that office gets abolished, civil servants run things. Until a referendum with over 50% T.O. passes, that office stays abolished. People act shocked we voted to leave the EU, and yet statistically, the vast majority of those same people never bothered to participate in EU elections. Now we get mayors and police commissioners foisted on us with similarly apathetic turnout.

Where possible, make politicians legally liable for their promises. Obviously some things are out of their control, but if they say something like 'we'll outlaw chocolate bars in XX community' and they dont, they lose the job. 

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7 minutes ago, MrPin said:

People resist having their faith condemned, whatever faith that is.

People have all sorts of unpleasant and idiotic ideas they dont like challenged or condemned. Paedophiles, for instance. 

Doesnt mean we shouldn’t as a society and as individuals step up and challenge and condemn them.

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Obviously abolishing the Lords would be number one as it is simply a glorified dole office for clapped out politicians and their cronies. Parliament should be a single chamber institution made up of no more than 500 MPs. There are a number of countries that are governed using this model.

Abolish winner takes all General Elections which have effectively turned the UK into an elective dictatorship where a Prime Minister with a large Parliamentary majority can rule with almost no checks on their power. Instead elect half of the Commons every two years for a term of four years with a Referendum held every fifth year where the public can decide if the entire Parliament should be dissolved and every seat comes up for election in the following year. Voting in the referendum would be compulsory for all citizens.This would effectively create biennial Parliaments which should limit the power of the Executive. It would also lessen the power that a Party Leader holds over MPs.

No one should be allowed to become an MP unless they have worked in a non political related job and paid taxes for at least 10 years.

If any of this sounds familiar that is because it is not dissimilar to some of the ideas discussed at the end of the English Civil War.

I am particularly keen on the idea of the public not the politicians deciding when Parliament can be dissolved and new elections run.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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4 hours ago, eight said:

Ban political parties.

No need for representative democracy in the internet age, I can represent myself in an online vote on any issue 

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5 hours ago, wherebee said:

Been thinking about the cycle where democracy always leads to collapse and dictatorship due to the FSA voting themselves free shit.  How would we create democracy which actually lasted?

 

My suggestions:

  • No leader of the country or a political party without a least one living child
  • Immigrants do not get a vote for 6 years after date of arrival
  • You get one vote for each 1000 pounds in INCOME tax you paid in the previous year - entirely possible now with data systems
  • Voting age raised to 21, unless you have served in the armed forces, in which case you get the right to vote after a year of service
  • No donations over 1000 pounds allowed from any source (including the EU).  Any breaches taken out of the personal assets of the elected official.
  • All elected officials must publish their tax returns online.  Public allowed to challenge.  Special anti-corruption unit to target MP's and councillors (see ICAC in Hong Kong)
  • The ballot paper has a simple addition question on it each time (i.e. what is 3+16).  You get it wrong, spoiled ballot.

 

In addition no lobbyists allowed

MP's should only answer to their electorate!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, PatronizingGit said:

Ban politicial parties. Do away with the herd mentality. Either you vote for an individual, or you don't vote at all.

How do you reconcile that with freedom of association? Also, In the UK seat based system, you do vote for the individual and not the party.

Edited by SuperTramp

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