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Libspero

Curry Death.. Manslaughter Charges

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Megan Lee, who was diagnosed with a peanut allergy aged eight, endured an asthma attack a few hours after she and a friend ordered food online from the Royal Spice Takeaway in her home town of Oswaldtwistle

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The online menu did not include a list of ingredients for the order placed, and simply bore the rider “Think Allergy” and “please ask any member of staff”, the court heard.

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Peanuts were found to be present in the Peshwari naan, the onion bhaji and the seekh kebab, all of which the girls ordered, inspectors later found.

The takeway's owner, Mohammed Abdul Kuddus, 40, and manager Harun Rashid deny manslaughter.

Linky

Tragic story of a girl who didn't actually know she had a strong peanut allergy (thought it was mild,  never prescribed epipen etc).  Ordered a curry,  and only wrote in the "any other comments" box "peanuts and prawns".

Restaurant gives them them a curry with none of these ingredients directly included..  but traces found in the naan, bhaji and kebab were enough to kill her.

Owners being charged with manslaughter.

Can we talk about this (being an ongoing trial by the look of it)? ,  or more generally how small mom and pop businesses can protect themselves from what is clearly just very bad luck on all accounts? 

Should all restaurants just list all allergens as present on every menu just to cover themselves?   These guys obviously tried to do something similar but didn't word it  well enough to avoid prosecution.

What are the DOSBODS thoughts ? 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Libspero said:

 

Linky

Tragic story of a girl who didn't actually know she had a strong peanut allergy (thought it was mild,  never prescribed epipen etc).  Ordered a curry,  and only wrote in the "any other comments" box "peanuts and prawns".

Restaurant gives them them a curry with none of these ingredients directly included..  but traces found in the naan, bhaji and kebab were enough to kill her.

Owners being charged with manslaughter.

Can we talk about this (being an ongoing trial by the look of it)? ,  or more generally how small mom and pop businesses can protect themselves from what is clearly just very bad luck on all accounts? 

Should all restaurants just list all allergens as present on every menu just to cover themselves?   These guys obviously tried to do something similar but didn't word it  well enough to avoid prosecution.

What are the DOSBODS thoughts ? 

I think all establishments will end up going down the route of simply saying they can't guarantee that any of the known allergens aren't in the food. Big signs up with all of them listed. I would if I ran a cafe. 

There is also the issue in this story of the filthy conditions of the place - more inspections are clearly needed and places need permenantly closing if they fail an inspection and there needs to be some way of ensuring that if that happens the owners don't just open up somewhere else.

Edited by Dipsy

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I find it hard to believe this story, she was diagnosed with a "mild" peanut allergy at age 8 and 7 years later discovered that it wasn't so mild. In those intervening years she apparently must have completely avoided peanuts - I don't think that's possible.

The obvious DOSBODS solution is to not eat at such places, allergy or not. I've stated this before but if you look on the Scores On The Doors website for your nearest town , every single one of the establishments with 0 stars is Indian owned I bet. https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/

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23 minutes ago, spunko said:

I find it hard to believe this story, she was diagnosed with a "mild" peanut allergy at age 8 and 7 years later discovered that it wasn't so mild. In those intervening years she apparently must have completely avoided peanuts - I don't think that's possible.

The obvious DOSBODS solution is to not eat at such places, allergy or not. I've stated this before but if you look on the Scores On The Doors website for your nearest town , every single one of the establishments with 0 stars is Indian owned I bet. https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/

I think you'll be surprised. My brother went 20 odd years without coming into contact with peanuts until one night, shitfaced he tucked into some satay chicken covered in a sauce at a party. But he had a severe peanut allergy, although diagnosed as a child with a mild one. He wouldn't even stand near you if you were eating them as the smell/dust would irritate him.

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26 minutes ago, spunko said:

I find it hard to believe this story, she was diagnosed with a "mild" peanut allergy at age 8 and 7 years later discovered that it wasn't so mild. In those intervening years she apparently must have completely avoided peanuts - I don't think that's possible.

The obvious DOSBODS solution is to not eat at such places, allergy or not. I've stated this before but if you look on the Scores On The Doors website for your nearest town , every single one of the establishments with 0 stars is Indian owned I bet. https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/

Interesting..  not sure how accurate.

I just tested it on a local Chinese which a friend of mine who did some contracting work there told me was seriously grotty and would never advise anyone eat there.

Managed to get a 5 star rating..   the mind boggles.

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1 minute ago, Admiral Pepe said:

I think you'll be surprised. My brother went 20 odd years without coming into contact with peanuts until one night, shitfaced he tucked into some satay chicken covered in a sauce at a party. But he had a severe peanut allergy, although diagnosed as a child with a mild one. He wouldn't even stand near you if you were eating them as the smell/dust would irritate him.

I stand corrected then. But if its as omnipresent as the article states then it does surprise me.

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2 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Interesting..  not sure how accurate.

I just tested it on a local Chinese which a friend of mine who did some contracting work there told me was seriously grotty and would never advise anyone eat there.

Managed to get a 5 star rating..   the mind boggles.

It's pretty accurate for me, but I haven't tested it elsewhere.

https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/search.php?name=&address=tonbridge&postcode=&distance=&search_x=60&search_y=9&gbt_id=1&award_score=fhrs0&award_range=gt&award_sort=ASC

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Posted (edited)

Ok like the "killer pret baggette" story 

its time for some Facts on this case too:

1. Her friend put simply "Prawns & Peanuts" in the note box on the online order form

so......how was the restaurant supposed to know this wasnt a request for extra prawns & peanuts ? 

what was the note box for? its usually for additional driver instructions for finding delivery address.

now the big truthie like the pret story

2. Her friends mother gave  her "Liquid Antihistamine" before she went home and lips turned blue in bed. 

Prior to that being administered she just had an itchy red mark on her face. 

so her we are again 

I maintain that all these folk would likely have survived the peanut / sesame reactions if medication had not been given by parents. 

What was the "Liquid Antihistamine" given? why would she take that random stuff from her friends mother? 

Apparently it takes hours for an allergic reaction to get serious so im not buying the "sudden death" narrative 

my suspicion is that parents freaking out & overdoing the medication has actually accelerated or complicated these "reactions"

Edited by WorkingPoor

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6 minutes ago, spunko said:

Oh, I must be fairly local to you. I've eaten at half a dozen or so of those Tonbridge restaurants- all scoring 5s and 4s fortunately!

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6 minutes ago, WorkingPoor said:

What was the "Liquid Antihistamine" given? why would she take that random stuff from her friends mother? 

 

https://www.boots.com/boots-allergy-relief-1-year-plus-antihistamine-2mg-5ml-syrup-10076471

Don't know.

The guy being treated for a bee sting allergy has been told you can keep popping antihistimine tablets if the first one or two dont' work.
 

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9 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Interesting..  not sure how accurate.

I just tested it on a local Chinese which a friend of mine who did some contracting work there told me was seriously grotty and would never advise anyone eat there.

Managed to get a 5 star rating..   the mind boggles.

How often are places checked over? I can imagine it's quite easy to get a 5 or 4 when you first open.

There used to be (not sure if still there/reopened) a really popular chinese in portsmouth. They had to shut it down as it was so filthy

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/pictures-show-filth-at-chinese-tea-bar-1-6619889

 

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Just now, Admiral Pepe said:

How often are places checked over? I can imagine it's quite easy to get a 5 or 4 when you first open.

There used to be (not sure if still there/reopened) a really popular chinese in portsmouth. They had to shut it down as it was so filthy

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/pictures-show-filth-at-chinese-tea-bar-1-6619889

 

Every 3 years I think. or 5. 

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37 minutes ago, spunko said:

I find it hard to believe this story, she was diagnosed with a "mild" peanut allergy at age 8 and 7 years later discovered that it wasn't so mild. In those intervening years she apparently must have completely avoided peanuts - I don't think that's possible.

The obvious DOSBODS solution is to not eat at such places, allergy or not. I've stated this before but if you look on the Scores On The Doors website for your nearest town , every single one of the establishments with 0 stars is Indian owned I bet. https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/

As it happens it's the local Bakery which is very up market and popular, but wouldn't disagree in principle. 

My dad used to do fire safety inspections as part of his job, he refuses to eat in Indian restaurants, he says he doesn't like curry but I know that's simply not true and it's the appalling condition of most of the places he saw that puts him off. 

My understanding of the system however is there are certain elements of the inspection which will get you marked down regardless on how clean the rest of it is. I know a lot of the trendy burger places get a very low rating based on the fact they cook the burgers rare, meat is keep in excellent condition across the supply chain but you get marked with a 1 simply because it's slightly pink in the middle. By contrast based on that site the local mini-market place has an OK good rating but you never buy milk in there because it's always off long before the expiry date. 

 

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1 minute ago, sarahbell said:

Every 3 years I think. or 5. 

So really the scores are meaningless.

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3 hours ago, Libspero said:

 

Linky

Tragic story of a girl who didn't actually know she had a strong peanut allergy (thought it was mild,  never prescribed epipen etc).  Ordered a curry,  and only wrote in the "any other comments" box "peanuts and prawns".

Restaurant gives them them a curry with none of these ingredients directly included..  but traces found in the naan, bhaji and kebab were enough to kill her.

Owners being charged with manslaughter.

Can we talk about this (being an ongoing trial by the look of it)? ,  or more generally how small mom and pop businesses can protect themselves from what is clearly just very bad luck on all accounts? 

Should all restaurants just list all allergens as present on every menu just to cover themselves?   These guys obviously tried to do something similar but didn't word it  well enough to avoid prosecution.

What are the DOSBODS thoughts ? 

99% of takeway curry places are dirty, grubby shitholes.

Any person with allergies who goes to one and expects the single figure IQ server/chef to grasp allegergies and not to add something is an idiot.

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1 hour ago, WorkingPoor said:

Ok like the "killer pret baggette" story 

its time for some Facts on this case too:

1. Her friend put simply "Prawns & Peanuts" in the note box on the online order form

so......how was the restaurant supposed to know this wasnt a request for extra prawns & peanuts ? 

what was the note box for? its usually for additional driver instructions for finding delivery address.

now the big truthie like the pret story

2. Her friends mother gave  her "Liquid Antihistamine" before she went home and lips turned blue in bed. 

Prior to that being administered she just had an itchy red mark on her face. 

so her we are again 

I maintain that all these folk would likely have survived the peanut / sesame reactions if medication had not been given by parents. 

What was the "Liquid Antihistamine" given? why would she take that random stuff from her friends mother? 

Apparently it takes hours for an allergic reaction to get serious so im not buying the "sudden death" narrative 

my suspicion is that parents freaking out & overdoing the medication has actually accelerated or complicated these "reactions"

Yes that struck me as slightly strange too... Writing "peanuts and prawns" in the online order form comments box would, to me, mean add shitloads of peanuts and prawns. It's lucky that the guy cooking it ignored that really.

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6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

99% of takeway curry places are dirty, grubby shitholes.

Any person with allergies who goes to one and expects the single figure IQ server/chef to grasp allegergies and not to add something is an idiot.

I tend to agree.  If you have a rare genetic disease which makes you incredibly vulnerable to everyday food stuffs,  you would be something of an idiot to trust your life to a complete stranger.  Especially something like curry that has so many spices and imported ingredients from outside the country from supply chains you can't possibly have direct oversight of.

If these laws are pushed in this way,  you will either have menus stating everything contains everything that might cause an allergic response.. or failing that,  all restaurants will turn to mass produced processed factory food where the manufacturers can afford to have everything tested prior to leaving the industrial plant to make sure it doesn't contain specific trace allergens. 

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2 hours ago, spunko said:

The obvious DOSBODS solution is to not eat at such places, allergy or not. I've stated this before but if you look on the Scores On The Doors website for your nearest town , every single one of the establishments with 0 stars is Indian owned I bet. https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/

that's a relief, my favorite dial-a-chinese has 5 stars, wasn't expecting that tbh.

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1 hour ago, Anglepoise said:

Oh, I must be fairly local to you. I've eaten at half a dozen or so of those Tonbridge restaurants- all scoring 5s and 4s fortunately!

I'm near Tonbridge too don't eat out much, surprised how many low rated ones there are.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, spunko said:

Yes that struck me as slightly strange too... Writing "peanuts and prawns" in the online order form comments box would, to me, mean add shitloads of peanuts and prawns. It's lucky that the guy cooking it ignored that really.

Maybe her friend stitched her up? 

Then the friends mum panicked and dosed her with some old liquid antihistamine that had been in the first aid box for years? 

i note the curry boss actually went round to the house and said they didnt add any nuts or prawns

Edited by WorkingPoor

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13 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I tend to agree.  If you have a rare genetic disease which makes you incredibly vulnerable to everyday food stuffs,  you would be something of an idiot to trust your life to a complete stranger.  Especially something like curry that has so many spices and imported ingredients from outside the country from supply chains you can't possibly have direct oversight of.

If these laws are pushed in this way,  you will either have menus stating everything contains everything that might cause an allergic response.. or failing that,  all restaurants will turn to mass produced processed factory food where the manufacturers can afford to have everything tested prior to leaving the industrial plant to make sure it doesn't contain specific trace allergens. 

Cant go wrong with a bag of chips - unless hey are using nut oil ....

 

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Posted (edited)

This is going to fuck up allsorts of businesses 

supermarket bakeries for one, just look at all those rolls & cakes that will have to labeled individually! and what about the artificial smells they pump out through vents in the bakery section? airbourne nut allergy anyone? 

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Burger vans, cafes, etc 

Like "jazz hands" its changing things to suit the few 

millitancy if you ask me

Edited by WorkingPoor

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