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maudit

School discipline

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Some of the posters on here are older so I was wondering how teenagers behaved towards teachers decades ago?

My mum has been working as a supply teacher and the abuse towards teachers sounds worse then ever. Sink schools where all the senior management are 20/30 yr old women. Actually not just sink schools, she was out the other day and some yr 10 boys from a local 'ofsted outstanding' school she had been working at walked past and shouted at her "fucking french fuck off back to france". Another rough school she worked in a while back she had a boy throw an overhead projector at her. Were things always this bad? Some of the decline appears to be linked to lack of scary older or male teachers/headteachers. Add to that no punishments really as they can ignore detentions and the senior management always seem to be on the side of the trouble maker children because of their home issues. Which I understand but I'm not sure it helps these kids in the long run to not expect certain standards of behaviour. Massive recruitment problems in the shithole parts of Kent meaning few permanent staff and the standard of hiring of teachers are minimal. Head of maths at a local secondary I was talking to was a PE teacher with no maths degree.

 

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I went to school in the 1940 and 1950s.

Canes, rulers, gym shoes, slaps around the head were the norm then .

My parents, having survived the same thing did not see anything odd about it.

I resented it.

My school was well ordered.

Take your pick

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, maudit said:

Some of the decline appears to be linked to lack of scary older or male teachers/headteachers.

you might be on to something here, I remember our teachers threatenning to get Mr Summers if we didn't behave, at the time he wasn't even head or deputy head. He had tattoos and was good shot with the chalk. He got in to a few scuffles with the really bad kids on occasion, you'd get instant dismissal for that today.

 

Edited by snaga

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2 minutes ago, dgul said:

There is another 1/2 to it, and that is that society has removed failure.  When I was at school there weren't many beatings, but everyone knew someone that had mucked up school, been expelled, had some sort of barely functional schooling and was pretty much on the street.  Moreover, it was clear that having reasonable O levels was the gateway to getting a job (as a proxy for 'not a complete fuckwit').   In those two factors there was an imperative to get some schooling and not be too disruptive.  These days there's little correlation in life-outcome between trying at school and being ultra-disruptive at school amongst those that don't go on to HE.

Add in that everyone is entitled now. 

How very dare you say I can’t go to university, not being able to effectively communicate isn’t a barrier now, that’s just discrimination. 

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There is nothing to threaten the children with anymore. Last perm job she was at a prep school where you had little brats you couldn't tell off as their parents would complain and claim you are victimising their children. So she had a boy she was told she was not allowed to tell off despite him constantly hitting other children in the lesson. But his dad is rich with younger siblings and the school doesn't want to lose the money.

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8 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I'd have received a beating at school followed by another at home

that happened to me.  Get a hammering when you get home as well.

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4 minutes ago, maudit said:

There is nothing to threaten the children with anymore. Last perm job she was at a prep school where you had little brats you couldn't tell off as their parents would complain and claim you are victimising their children. So she had a boy she was told she was not allowed to tell off despite him constantly hitting other children in the lesson. But his dad is rich with younger siblings and the school doesn't want to lose the money.

That's odd. I sent mine to prep school because that was the only place that could ask disruptive children to leave (that and the fact that the state school they were assigned to was 50% pikey)

There was a bucket load of pushy parents but the kids were well behaved.

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3 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

That's odd. I sent mine to prep school because that was the only place that could ask disruptive children to leave (that and the fact that the state school they were assigned to was 50% pikey)

There was a bucket load of pushy parents but the kids were well behaved.

I think it varies by how much competition there is in terms of other prep school availability and on the character of the head. A different prep school she worked at was fine but that one was competing for children with lots of others in the area.

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1 minute ago, maudit said:

I think it varies by how much competition there is in terms of other prep school availability and on the character of the head. A different prep school she worked at was fine but that one was competing for children with lots of others in the area.

The headmaster owned this one, having inherited it from his father. I think reputation was as important to him as money.

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Only a few children like this at the prep school but she said it was funny on parents evening as the difficult ones would without fail have a complete arsehole father, London city banker types.

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1 minute ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

The Swiss don't beat kids at school but don't have much trouble with the kids by comparison with the UK, not even the Kosovar brats are as disruptive as all that. They do exclude though. Don't know what their trick is.

I think the UK have schooling upside down. Rather than creaming off the top 10% to Grammar schools, we should bung the bottom 10% in special schools, giving 90% a decent chance.

But that wouldn't suit the elite who see grammar schools as their own free private education system with the odd pleb let in to stop people moaning.

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1 minute ago, Cunning Plan said:

I think the UK have schooling upside down. Rather than creaming off the top 10% to Grammar schools, we should bung the bottom 10% in special schools, giving 90% a decent chance.

But that wouldn't suit the elite who see grammar schools as their own free private education system with the odd pleb let in to stop people moaning.

That's close to what it was like in my time (at comprehensive) -- only the 10% just didn't bother tuning up.

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Are we talking about primary or secondary/grammar school.

i remember well in early 80s getting dusters thrown at me, wooden rulers broken over my knuckles and random canings (tho that was for finding crusty porn mags in playground and hanging them up on the surrounding fences)!!

In grammar school,u just had a fear of certain teachers. There were always dickheads in class, and the odd fight, but nothing too sinister.

and I didn't get molested by the RE teacher ,like half my class,so that was a bonus. 

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11 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

That's odd. I sent mine to prep school because that was the only place that could ask disruptive children to leave (that and the fact that the state school they were assigned to was 50% pikey)

There was a bucket load of pushy parents but the kids were well behaved.

Same for our kids prep school as they can't afford to have disruptive children affecting their place in the league tables. One new starter (in September) has already had his cards marked. 

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Just now, dgul said:

That's close to what it was like in my time (at comprehensive) -- only the 10% just didn't bother tuning up.

We had the same. Or they got taken to the common to learn some kind woods maintenance skills.

Perhaps if we stopped fining parents and chasing truants back to school things would improve?

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I think the kids are about the same now as my generation in the seventies and eighties. One big difference is the modern practice of "inclusivity" whereby the proper mentalists are retained in mainstream schools to salve the conscience of those virtue signalling policy makers who send their own kids to private or the more well healed type of state schools.

Teachers nowadays, on the other hand, are much better behaved than they used to be.

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1 minute ago, Mentalhammer666 said:

Are we talking about primary or secondary/grammar school.

i remember well in early 80s getting dusters thrown at me, wooden rulers broken over my knuckles and random canings (tho that was for finding crusty porn mags in playground and hanging them up on the surrounding fences)!!

In grammar school,u just had a fear of certain teachers. There were always dickheads in class, and the odd fight, but nothing too sinister.

and I didn't get molested by the RE teacher ,like half my class,so that was a bonus. 

No problems in primary or grammars. Its in the rebranded secondary moderns. It is sad as the year 7s are nice and want to learn but they have no chance in these schools with the disruptive children and few permanent teachers. Worse compared with ~15 yrs ago despite the shiny new buildings because of the strong headteachers who set the standards leaving. Now have these weird academy management teams who are all really young.

 

1 minute ago, Cunning Plan said:

We had the same. Or they got taken to the common to learn some kind woods maintenance skills.

Perhaps if we stopped fining parents and chasing truants back to school things would improve?

Yes even more so now they make them stay until 18. Either have it strict or don't force them to be there stopping all the other children from learning.

 

 

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My friend's wife did teacher training a few years back in a Lewisham sink school. Really struggled through it. 

Since moved to Singapore where she earns much more money for less work and the kids are well behaved. Surely that has to be a cultural thing? Their police certainly have a zero-tolerance response to anti-social behaviour. 

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