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Libspero

Creeping Trivialisation Of Hate Crime Law

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Ageism to be the next hate crime.. hopefully followed by being rude to traffic wardens and people who return library books late.

bring it on I say..  the sooner it becomes totally ridiculous the better.

Quote

Mr Javid has asked the Law Commission to investigate whether ageism and misogyny should be recognised as hate crimes in the same way as offences motivated by hostility based on race, religion, sexual orientation or disability.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/15/ageism-could-classed-hate-crime-sajid-javid-poised-announce/

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4 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Ageism to be the next hate crime.. hopefully followed by being rude to traffic wardens and people who return library books late.

bring it on I say..  the sooner it becomes totally ridiculous the better.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/15/ageism-could-classed-hate-crime-sajid-javid-poised-announce/

Does this mean the village elders spouting off about the youth in the neighbourhood will be committing a hate crime?

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40 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Ageism to be the next hate crime.. hopefully followed by being rude to traffic wardens and people who return library books late.

bring it on I say..  the sooner it becomes totally ridiculous the better.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/15/ageism-could-classed-hate-crime-sajid-javid-poised-announce/

I see your point about twattery of this type accelerating the path to an eventual backlash, but can’t bring myself to find it desirable. 

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People don't seem to understand what 'hate crime' is.

Basiically it's a crime that would still be a crime even if racial/sexist/etc motivation didn't come into it.

The 'crime' bit is the crime. The 'hate' bit refers to the perceived motivation for the crime. Hating someone is not in itself a crime.

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No wonder they need to rsise taxes as the few things that are not illegal are about to be.

Thing life will be easier just never talking.

Gid this lot are worse than Blair .. Feels as if those years were ones of freedom .. When they werent.

I never even new there was a male version of misogyny apparantly its called misandry which doesn't even exist on my phones text predictor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45870948

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/15/ageism-could-classed-hate-crime-sajid-javid-poised-announce/

Have to stop calling people old cunt or boomer ... Brian Clough would be up before a judge for callimg people "young man". 

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4 hours ago, Happy Renting said:

The 'crime' bit is the crime. The 'hate' bit refers to the perceived motivation for the crime. Hating someone is not in itself a crime.

You are quite right..  my examples were deliberately facetious.  They are basically designed to give particular political pressure groups better social protections than the rest of us.  Which is why they are particularly inequitous and undesirable IMHO. 

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4 hours ago, Happy Renting said:

People don't seem to understand what 'hate crime' is.

Basiically it's a crime that would still be a crime even if racial/sexist/etc motivation didn't come into it.

The 'crime' bit is the crime. The 'hate' bit refers to the perceived motivation for the crime. Hating someone is not in itself a crime, yet.

FIFY

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2 minutes ago, null; said:

FIFY

Well, there is a group within society that appears to hate anyone and everyone who is not in their group. Will it mean that this group who hate outsiders to them will be rounded up?  

No?  Thought not. The rest will get arrested on hate grounds for refusing to convert. 

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Well, there is a group within society that appears to hate anyone and everyone who is not in their group. Will it mean that this group who hate outsiders to them will be rounded up?  

No?  Thought not. The rest will get arrested on hate grounds for refusing to convert. 

I hate it when you are right.

Got to go, someones kicking my front door in...

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

Well, there is a group within society that appears to hate anyone and everyone who is not in their group. Will it mean that this group who hate outsiders to them will be rounded up?  

No?  Thought not. The rest will get arrested on hate grounds for refusing to convert. 

Dosbodders?

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Just been on radio.

Some talking head going on about xxx disability hate crimes reported but a tiny number charged.

Pro hate person goes  - Thats good enough.

Or, as the reality suggests, these were not hate crimes.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Dosbodders?

Buddhists. 

I think this could play out quite well.  My plan once the law comes in is to stop pretending to work.  When they then try and sack me, I’ll call discrimination and promise to go for a big payout. Result. 

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7 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Just been on radio.

Some talking head going on about xxx disability hate crimes reported but a tiny number charged.

Pro hate person goes  - Thats good enough.

Or, as the reality suggests, these were not hate crimes.

 

 

Maybe one day these people will realise the irony that it is those reporting* the hate crimes and the fake liberals that are actually the ones filled with hate.

You could argue to someone making an unfounded report of hate crime is in themselves guilty of a hate crime.

*Not including the genuine cases

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Being serious for a moment, I have always thought that race/hate 'crimes' are in themselves racist/whateverist.

If I was to be abusive towards a chinese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the Chinese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would be in big trouble.

If I was to be abusive towards an obese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the obese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would possibly be in trouble, but not to anywhere near the same extent as the above.

So here is the controversial bit - what if we were to treat everyone equally, regardless of race, appearance, sexuality or ethnic background?

So if we are to have 'hate' crimes, it should not be limited to the folowing

  • disability
  • race
  • religion
  • transgender identity
  • sexual orientation.

 

It seems that GMP are heading this way with their intereptation:

" In particular, Greater Manchester Police now recognises alternative sub-culture hate incidents. These are incidents based on someone’s appearance and include Goths, Emos, Punks and other similar groups. This means they will also record any such incidents as a hate incident. "

So what other groups should be included, how about - short people, tall people, red heads, baldies, men, women, dosboders, flat cap wearers, left handed people, anyone born on a Friday, anyone with freckles, anyone without freckles, marmite lovers, etc, etc, etc.

So why not just make it simple and non divisive - it applies equally to all regardless - yey, the ultimate equality!

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, null; said:

Being serious for a moment, I have always thought that race/hate 'crimes' are in themselves racist/whateverist.

If I was to be abusive towards a chinese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the Chinese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would be in big trouble.

If I was to be abusive towards an obese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the obese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would possibly be in trouble, but not to anywhere near the same extent as the above.

So here is the controversial bit - what if we were to treat everyone equally, regardless of race, appearance, sexuality or ethnic background?

So if we are to have 'hate' crimes, it should not be limited to the folowing

  • disability
  • race
  • religion
  • transgender identity
  • sexual orientation.

 

It seems that GMP are heading this way with their intereptation:

" In particular, Greater Manchester Police now recognises alternative sub-culture hate incidents. These are incidents based on someone’s appearance and include Goths, Emos, Punks and other similar groups. This means they will also record any such incidents as a hate incident. "

So what other groups should be included, how about - short people, tall people, red heads, baldies, men, women, dosboders, flat cap wearers, left handed people, anyone born on a Friday, anyone with freckles, anyone without freckles, marmite lovers, etc, etc, etc.

So why not just make it simple and non divisive - it applies equally to all regardless - yey, the ultimate equality!

 

 

 

If they were honest about it they would write the law to protect everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from white people of course.

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41 minutes ago, null; said:

Oh, dear old BBC, I take it all back, you are wonderfull.

Hostility to men and the elderly could become hate crimes

 

How will the So-Called BBC news editors escape jail, if misandry is actually pursued as a crime?

(It already is a crime but the justice system, both criminal and civil, ignores and encourages/perpetrates it)

Will the courts sue themselves for constantly delivering misandrist verdicts? Will divorce judges be guilty of hate crimes?

 

The world is spiralling into Idiocracy.

 

 

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So the only non-hate crime left is against someone of the same sex, ethnic group, similar age, same religion, same level of ability / disability, and same sexual orientation as your self.

Non-hate crimes must now be about 0.01% of crimes; just change the language such that crime = hate crime by default and bring in a new and rare definition of non-hate crime.

right-stop-that-stop-that-its-silly-very

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45870948

'The charity Action on Elder Abuse said the inclusion of ageism as a motivation for hate crime was long overdue given the scale of the problem.

"The number of convictions for these crimes is tiny and, even when someone is found guilty, they often escape with flimsy sentences and paltry fines that do nothing to deter would-be abusers," chief executive Gary FitzGerald said.'

Crap.

This isnt about hatred of the elderly.

Its the reluctance to pay people looking after the eldery a wage beyond NMW.

And, frankly, hearing stories, the hate crime is usually age worker hatred by the OAP rather than the other way around.

Maybe if OAP were forced to pay for their care then theyd get a better class of carer rather than the usless scummers who amke up ~50% of the old age sector.

 

 

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1 hour ago, null; said:

It seems that GMP are heading this way with their intereptation:

" In particular, Greater Manchester Police now recognises alternative sub-culture hate incidents. These are incidents based on someone’s appearance and include Goths, Emos, Punks and other similar groups. This means they will also record any such incidents as a hate incident. "

So what other groups should be included, how about - short people, tall people, red heads, baldies, men, women, dosboders, flat cap wearers, left handed people, anyone born on a Friday, anyone with freckles, anyone without freckles, marmite lovers, etc, etc, etc.

So why not just make it simple and non divisive - it applies equally to all regardless - yey, the ultimate equality!

They should do away with the whole nonsense and record crimes.
And try to deal with some of them.

IF not though then they should include 'people who have a degree' in the same way they're including emos and goths etc.

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1 hour ago, null; said:

...

If I was to be abusive towards a Chinese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the Chinese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would be in big trouble.

If I was to be abusive towards an obese person and make nasty comments about their appearance, the obese person would most likely be upset and offended and rightly so.  I would possibly be in trouble, but not to anywhere near the same extent as the above.

...

 

 

 

I know your point was about something else, but this is the annoying bit about the hate laws.

The trouble is, they're pushing the 'hate' thing as being a bit nasty -- but most of the time it is just being nasty to the person, and any racism/genderism/whatever is just a modifier.  If someone shouts out to me that I'm a Taffy smelly scumbag, it is most likely that they just really hate me, not that they actually hate Welsh people -- they're just using the Taff as a modifier.  This is the trivialisation (in people's heads).  of course, it is easy for me to ignore that hate as no-one tells me on a day-to-day basis that everyone hates Welsh people; if you're being told all the time that all men hate women, then it becomes much easier to interpret 'you stupid fucking woman!' as a gender hate crime (all women are stupid), rather than a bunch of modifiers to heighten the hate towards you (I hate you, plus a few words to make you cry).

I've no doubt that there is hate out there, but it is a far worse level of crime than a few words -- and also far more rare.

Oh, and by the way, it's all fluff.  I'll believe their words when they decide to take a hard line on any clubs/societies out there that have membership documents with sections describing how to kill people who aren't in the club.  (BTW, I'd be tolerant if the clubs introduced updated documents that supersede the hate documents and which include sections on how to be nice to people, even if you don't like them)

Edited by dgul

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