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Student Loans


Hardhat

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4 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

Yes, I feel very sorry for all the young folk born to ordinary working people. The life prospects for the majority are truly abysmal.

I’m angry that my daughter has incurred student debt pursuing her path to get a job paying 18k per annum. Luckily she has future prospects to earn much more. I appreciate posts about alternative routes for what she wanted to do but I was unable to advise her due to no knowledge of ecology etc and needless to say no career “advisor” ever told her.

That right there is the issue. The connected will know and have the placemen to help your offspring. For the rest you just hope your knowledge is good enough 

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Just now, One percent said:

That right there is the issue. The connected will know and have the placemen to help your offspring. For the rest you just hope your knowledge is good enough 

Indeed, who you know helps a lot in getting on in life.

That worked a bit in my daughter’s journey because she done a hellish temporary week job at remote Scottish peat bogs in January this year. Frozen, soaked, knee deep in snow and one day stranded waiting for the rac but mountain rescue picked them up. The organiser of that job knows her current employer and spoke highly of her to her boss.

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On 02/11/2018 at 17:23, The XYY Man said:

The only scandal on view here is that the thick cunts signing-up for these "loans" have no understanding whatsoever of compound-interest - and yet are deemed intelligent enough to attend university...!

Go figure...

 

XYY

Bit harsh. Basic financial management isn't formally taught in schools and kids are very much pushed in the direction of uni, whether it's suitable for them or not. For most, that means taking out a punitive loan. The real scandal is that the financial impact of taking on the loan isn't spelled out in ten-foot high letters before the kids sign on the dotted line. Banks would be fined for mis-selling but SLC gets away with it.

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39 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

Yes, I feel very sorry for all the young folk born to ordinary working people. The life prospects for the majority are truly abysmal.

I’m angry that my daughter has incurred student debt pursuing her path to get a job paying 18k per annum. Luckily she has future prospects to earn much more. I appreciate posts about alternative routes for what she wanted to do but I was unable to advise her due to no knowledge of ecology etc and needless to say no career “advisor” ever told her.

Well she's on the right path now, and that's what matters...with a small consultancy she will get lots of hands on experience, be able to work towards a number of protected species licences (these are what will make her really employable I.e. more than her BSc/ MSc) and with this experience she will also gain membership of the CIEEM...

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37 minutes ago, AWW said:

Bit harsh. Basic financial management isn't formally taught in schools and kids are very much pushed in the direction of uni, whether it's suitable for them or not. For most, that means taking out a punitive loan. The real scandal is that the financial impact of taking on the loan isn't spelled out in ten-foot high letters before the kids sign on the dotted line. Banks would be fined for mis-selling but SLC gets away with it.

The problem is, with the `old system` this would never have happened I.e. if you could afford it you didn't need the loan, if you couldn't ( and you were able) you got a grant ...and as for the commercials, they taught their own apprentices rather than having the audacity to complain that others are not `doing it properly`, although they no longer want to fund the training!

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9 minutes ago, MrXxx said:

Well she's on the right path now, and that's what matters...with a small consultancy she will get lots of hands on experience, be able to work towards a number of protected species licences (these are what will make her really employable I.e. more than her BSc/ MSc) and with this experience she will also gain membership of the CIEEM...

Thank you.

Her boss and her are working out training/experience to gain her CIEEM membership. 

I haven’t met my daughter’s boss but from her work experiences and what she says about him I think he’s a good guy. Also I think he’s smart and having worked for larger companies he’s been doing real well as a small independent ecology company for 8 years or so. In his early 40’s I think.

To be honest I was extremely worried about my daughter’s future prospects until she secured this full time contract job in a small consultancy where she is getting good advice, training opportunities and mentoring. She’s been on a snow and ice 4x4 training day today because she goes to highland Scotland every week for at least two days. Boss is willing to pay for a variety of training relevant to doing an ecology job.

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1 hour ago, MrXxx said:

The problem is, with the `old system` this would never have happened I.e. if you could afford it you didn't need the loan, if you couldn't ( and you were able) you got a grant ...and as for the commercials, they taught their own apprentices rather than having the audacity to complain that others are not `doing it properly`, although they no longer want to fund the training!

There was an in-between period where the fees (a grand a year) and the loan amount were means-tested.  Even with the maximum support (or should that be "support"?), I was £18k in debt when I graduated with a Comp Sci degree in 2003.

I couldn't do my job without that degree. Not because it taught me anything, but because you needed a degree to get in the door of an employer. Even now, the syllabus of your average Comp Sci degree won't teach you anything about how software is built and operated in the real world.

I think the attitude of your average megacorp mirrors that of the average person in the street. Neither want to take responsibility for anything - it's always someone else's fault and the government's job to fix it.

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13 hours ago, AWW said:

There was an in-between period where the fees (a grand a year) and the loan amount were means-tested.  Even with the maximum support (or should that be "support"?), I was £18k in debt when I graduated with a Comp Sci degree in 2003.

I couldn't do my job without that degree. Not because it taught me anything, but because you needed a degree to get in the door of an employer. Even now, the syllabus of your average Comp Sci degree won't teach you anything about how software is built and operated in the real world.

I think the attitude of your average megacorp mirrors that of the average person in the street. Neither want to take responsibility for anything - it's always someone else's fault and the government's job to fix it.

+1

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Inoperational Bumblebee
On 31/10/2018 at 23:21, azzuri82 said:

Agreed. I pissed 4 years away - it still irks me the missed opportunities in life/business that could've come my way if I wasn't so preoccupied with sleeping until midday whilst justifying my laziness by playing the 'I'm at University' card.

I hadn't felt like that until I read this. Such a waste.

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On 27/10/2018 at 16:37, Wig said:

The sole objective of student loans is to normalise DEBTslavery for as many plebs as possible, for as long as possible, as early in life as possible. On those scores it seems pretty effective to my acute eye

May actually save a large proportion of a generation by pricing them out completely from indulging in the HPI debt binge though, there could be a silver lining.

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On 04/11/2018 at 21:32, AWW said:

There was an in-between period where the fees (a grand a year) and the loan amount were means-tested.  Even with the maximum support (or should that be "support"?), I was £18k in debt when I graduated with a Comp Sci degree in 2003.

I couldn't do my job without that degree. Not because it taught me anything, but because you needed a degree to get in the door of an employer. Even now, the syllabus of your average Comp Sci degree won't teach you anything about how software is built and operated in the real world.

I think the attitude of your average megacorp mirrors that of the average person in the street. Neither want to take responsibility for anything - it's always someone else's fault and the government's job to fix it.

Never really did.

Original computer science was a wheeze to keep a load of mathematicians gainfully employed.

There's no harm in doing the theory - providing its relevant - I still look at various maths books and im always going over data structures, 30 odd years down the line.

And if HE is anything,. its mainly theory.

There are some very good theoreticians i nthe UK Uni of Kent, that Simon bloke Haskell, Uni York, Uni Ebig, Bristol Soton who mange to balance the theory with practice.

However, due to software being a thing (now its AI nad cyber secutiry) the HE sector fills up with morons never were and idiots.

 

However, it helps is a CompSci grad grasp the fact that the 'doing' bit of software has a lot more seat and blood than the 'thinking' bit.

On some levels, my job is a lot easier than when I started - Im not constrained by hardware limitations so much (5 years doing obscure products in 20k of ram, 20k of rom jobbies). better tools, getter compilers (my editor  has not shifted for 30 years - i still use vi/vim).

However what Ive gained form those, Ive lost with having to deal with much larger, complex software systems than have bee around for 10+ and have had every moron from the sub-continents having a go.

 

 

On 05/11/2018 at 20:25, onlyme said:

May actually save a large proportion of a generation by pricing them out completely from indulging in the HPI debt binge though, there could be a silver lining.

Only silver lining is it is forcing some people to stop an think about HE.

Id have thought there might have been better ways.

 

In my last year, I was genuinely surpised to hear peopl who weer lcueless about what theyd do agfter graduating.

 

 

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UnconventionalWisdom
2 hours ago, spygirl said:

my last year, I was genuinely surpised to hear peopl who weer lcueless about what theyd do agfter graduating.

Unfortunately, it's not always that simply. I was all set to become a teacher after studying physics. Was about to enrol in a teaching course before doubts set in that there's more to life than this. Even said in the interview that I may head off to Asia for a year teaching first. The guy appreciated the honesty and said I could defer until the next year. After just over a year teaching English in Japan and South Korea, I didn't want to continue with teaching in the UK. 

But I do think that there should be more done at uni to make people think about what's next. It's the same with most PhD students and even postdocs seem to have an aimless approach to careers. 

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UnconventionalWisdom
On 02/11/2018 at 19:53, MrXxx said:

Had a conversation with a student the other day who didn't know that they were paying 6%..."Oh well" they said, "Its ONLY 6%"...I then explain ONLY 6% in the first year, and then ONLY 6% plus 6% of the first years 6% etc...it was at this stage that they realized they were actually being `shafted` by the government.

It's crazy, we'd all love 6% return. I'm not saying corbyn is the messiah, but when he said we would sort student loans out, I think he was referring to the fact it is charged at 6%. Instead of making it blantly obvious that this is what he meant, he kept it cryptic. Prob doesn't want to be forced to act if he got in. This is a major bore winner. As it is, young people are zombies walking towards financial ruin. 

It angers me that they charge 6% and angers me more that people it affects don't get angry about it. 

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5 hours ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

It angers me that they charge 6% and angers me more that people it affects don't get angry about it. 

FWIW, I am pretty angry about it

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7 hours ago, spygirl said:

However what Ive gained form those, Ive lost with having to deal with much larger, complex software systems than have bee around for 10+ and have had every moron from the sub-continents having a go.

Tell me about it. My current shop has a 10+ year old trading platform that is just hack upon hack upon hack. Devs don't hang around for more than a couple of years, and there's absolutely zero documentation. Some poor sap the other day was tasked with making changes to a complex piece of code that calculates client mark-ups.  Over 1,000 lines in a single class, not a comment to be seen. No original requirements documentation or test cases, and nobody in the business who has a clue how it should work.

Re poor quality code cut on the sub-continents, It's crystal clear that maths is taught to a much higher standard in eastern Europe and Southeast Asia than it is in Africa.

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On 04/11/2018 at 19:49, AWW said:

Bit harsh. Basic financial management isn't formally taught in schools and kids are very much pushed in the direction of uni, whether it's suitable for them or not. For most, that means taking out a punitive loan. The real scandal is that the financial impact of taking on the loan isn't spelled out in ten-foot high letters before the kids sign on the dotted line. Banks would be fined for mis-selling but SLC gets away with it.

the guilty ones are those that allowed 6 % interest and the system that thought it good to push to hit targets going to uni just for the sakes of it

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Young guy quit college with $100k of debt. Working a minimum wage job. He's effectively paid for administrators of that college...

What an absolute scandal. :(

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R4 Today programme started doing a piece about rumours of cuts to tuition fees and caps on student numbers.  Did not hang around to see if it was impartial or an attempt to lobby on behalf of the audience "cohort".  Dame whatever came on and immediately opened with a comment that any such changes would impact disadvantaged students.  Bad opening pitch, turned off straight away.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Relevant:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/nov/22/less-than-half-of-tuition-fees-spent-on-teaching-at-english-universities

 

'Less than half' of tuition fees spent on teaching at English universities

Large proportion of students’ £9k fees used to fund libraries and support services – report

University students receive teaching worth less than half of their £9,250 fee in England, according to an influential thinktank that says universities need to be more honest with students about how their fees are spent.

A report by the Higher Education Policy Institute (Hepi) said that teaching for undergraduates amounts to just 40%-45% of the current fee, with most of the remainder spent on valuable facilities such as libraries and services including information technology and student support.

But few universities publish easily digestible information about their spending on students, the report found. “It is easier to discover where the money goes when buying an iPhone than it is for a degree,” the authors said.

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