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Student Loans


Hardhat

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1 hour ago, MrXxx said:

Unfortunately, the academics that give the advice about the real world to students have no experience of it themselves...and as for using the £50k to start your own business, most students don't know what they want to do career wise (hence just drifting onto uni), let alone having the motivation to start their own business!

To be clear I would not ask an academic anything like that.  I meant someone older, maybe a family friend or relative, who's been around a bit and has the smarts.  But the kids get the exact opposite from the vested interests.  Fodder.  

True about the £50k.  Not something to rush into but that's exactly what they're doing right now!  Best to travel, hang out, learn a trade, grow up a bit, and then get the loan if needed.  You'll be in a far better place.  

No need to rush into anything as an 18 year old.  But my, some kids get the smarts early.  They can be very impressive.  Some just need some mentoring to nail it while others, at the right time, just need some to bring it out.

Can be very rewarding to put something back and see kids build a sound foundation for their future. 

My friend does it, but alas for undergrads.  He's brill.  Have to give some respect to the uni to realise they needed to reach out.  But shame it's just for undergrads.

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9 hours ago, Harley said:

To be clear I would not ask an academic anything like that.  I meant someone older, maybe a family friend or relative, who's been around a bit and has the smarts.  But the kids get the exact opposite from the vested interests.  Fodder.  

True about the £50k.  Not something to rush into but that's exactly what they're doing right now!  Best to travel, hang out, learn a trade, grow up a bit, and then get the loan if needed.  You'll be in a far better place.  

No need to rush into anything as an 18 year old.  But my, some kids get the smarts early.  They can be very impressive.  Some just need some mentoring to nail it while others, at the right time, just need some to bring it out.

Can be very rewarding to put something back and see kids build a sound foundation for their future. 

My friend does it, but alas for undergrads.  He's brill.  Have to give some respect to the uni to realise they needed to reach out.  But shame it's just for undergrads.

Ah, see what you mean (and agree)...if I look back at my educational/career development there have been significant individuals who have altruistically made a difference, and now I find I `pay back`...not because I feel that I have to, but because it feels like the right thing to do.

As for your last point above, unfortunately I don't think the university's do public outreach as a sense of duty, more as an opportunity to increase their profile locally and develop their customer base :(

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On 28/10/2018 at 12:05, spygirl said:

Weve a coventry uni site ... in scarborough.

Why ffs?

Coventry is in sw cornerof uk. Scabbys in ne.

Why the fuck?

Hope you didn’t take out a big loan to pay for a geography degree..

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1 hour ago, SNACR said:

Hope you didn’t take out a big loan to pay for a geography degree..

Not me, them.

Noones explained why CovU are there, other than desperation on both sides.

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On 27/10/2018 at 14:38, sancho panza said:

I was jsut chatting to someone involved in finance at a Uni in the midlands.Grade requirements being dropped.Foering student numbers dropping.Uni in substantial debt.Lots of new building.

 

When I'm in Coventry,you can see all the cranes building uni accomodation.Be under no illusion,when this Uni bubble pops,it will be an absolute disaster-not jsut for the kids with a £50k millstone around their necks being hcarged 7% per annum for the privilege but also the investors in the uni ponzi and the taxpayers that will pick up the tab in termns of default risk and bail outs for failed uni's.

Too mnay graduates,not enough grad jobs imho.

Agreed. The amount of student only / uni accommodation blocks getting flung up all over Edinburgh (and no doubt all over the country) is incredible. Who is paying the £700/month for their student accommodation ffs? In 2002 I was paying £49/week in uni halls, and that included heating and electricity. Granted, it wasn't anywhere as nice as a lot of these places, but it meant I could easily afford my living expenses and 2-3 nights out a week with a part-time job.

Even after leaving halls I manged to get shared accommodation for less than £200/month.

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On 30/10/2018 at 06:55, Harley said:

If I had to do it all over again now, I would skip the degree and invest the £50k or whatever in my own business.  Or would have studied for very little cost in English in Europe.  All I would have needed was a mentor with their head screwed on - alas not many of those, especially in the media who probably like the way things have turned out.

Agreed. I pissed 4 years away - it still irks me the missed opportunities in life/business that could've come my way if I wasn't so preoccupied with sleeping until midday whilst justifying my laziness by playing the 'I'm at University' card.

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12 hours ago, azzuri82 said:

Agreed. The amount of student only / uni accommodation blocks getting flung up all over Edinburgh (and no doubt all over the country) is incredible. Who is paying the £700/month for their student accommodation ffs? In 2002 I was paying £49/week in uni halls, and that included heating and electricity. Granted, it wasn't anywhere as nice as a lot of these places, but it meant I could easily afford my living expenses and 2-3 nights out a week with a part-time job.

Even after leaving halls I manged to get shared accommodation for less than £200/month.

I'd love to know who's building them.Galliford Try have done a few but I think next year these will be some excellent short opportunities.As I've psoted on the short thread,I've wound down my exposure,thinking we'll rally into Christmas.But whoever's going to on the hook for empty student accomodation looks an interesting play.

From what I udnerstand,it's burning the local LL's who for years have peddled substandard accomodation at top whack.These places,while expensive,only charge rent 38 weeks a year on the whole,whereas LL used to make the kids pay at least half rent for the summer.

Foerign students are big users and will pay good money.Thus any reduction in foreign students-which is occuring I believe but we won't know until the HESA release their 2017/18 data in jan 2019

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/upcoming

 

Highlights from last years

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/11-01-2018/sfr247-higher-education-student-statistics

Coventry has 32,000 students 

Whilst Leicester has 16,800 and De Montfort (also in Leicester) 23,205.There's only 300,000 in the city.

 

HE enrolments by domicile

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/11-01-2018/sfr247-higher-education-student-statistics/location

Foreign students (who generally are the most profitable) numbers were 442,375 for 2016/17 as opposed to 424,815 for 2012/13

UK domiclied has dropped slightly                                                                  2,317,880                                                 2,340, 470                                           

 

 

The only problem with the HESA data is the lag is huge.Hence I was interested in the person I spoke to from a Midlands uni saying money was tight-ie they'd blown a shedload on pointless buildings and that foreign students were becoming harder to get.

 

 

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Someone pointed this out to me the other day:

https://www.nizzynomics.com/calculator

It's a calculator for student loan debt, and tells you when you may pay it off etc., and how much you will end up paying off in total.

Imo it's a scandal that student loans are allowed to charge interest above the BoE rate.

 

Someone pointed this out to me the other day:

https://www.nizzynomics.com/calculator

It's a calculator for student loan debt, and tells you when you may pay it off etc., and how much you will end up paying off in total.

Imo it's a scandal that student loans are allowed to charge interest above the BoE rate.

 

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Chewing Grass
1 hour ago, Hardhat said:

Imo it's a scandal that student loans are allowed to charge interest above the BoE rate.

If they didn't they wouldn't be able to financialise them and sell them to 'investors' like your pension scheme.

Would the hard-working tax-payer want to pay for purple-haired muppets to do gender studies, fashion design or god forbid 'David Beckham studies'.

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1 hour ago, The XYY Man said:

The only scandal on view here is that the thick cunts signing-up for these "loans" have no understanding whatsoever of compound-interest - and yet are deemed intelligent enough to attend university...!

Go figure...

 

XYY

Had a conversation with a student the other day who didn't know that they were paying 6%..."Oh well" they said, "Its ONLY 6%"...I then explain ONLY 6% in the first year, and then ONLY 6% plus 6% of the first years 6% etc...it was at this stage that they realized they were actually being `shafted` by the government.

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3 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

The only scandal on view here is that the thick cunts signing-up for these "loans" have no understanding whatsoever of compound-interest - and yet are deemed intelligent enough to attend university...!

Go figure...

 

XYY

IMO it’s not that simple.

My daughter has around £35k student loan debt after doing a degree and masters in biology/environment/conservation. Luckily she has got a full time job based in Edinburgh as a graduate ecologist. She’s got prospects to raise her earnings from 18k per annum through gaining training and experience provided by a very decent boss of a small but established company in her field.

She’s only earning 6k more per annum than I was when I left a run of the mill local bank job twenty five years. I left school at age 16 with very decent o levels and no debt!

Daughter is loving her job learning about ecological clerk of works duties and undertaking a wide variety of surveys around Scotland with vehicle provided, accommodation and expenses paid.

Her other choice was leaving school and working in a minimum wage and probably boring job with little to no prospects of bettering herself.

I am extremely relieved that my daughter has “landed on her feet” by getting a job with prospects because I know that many the majority? of uni attendants end up much worse off.

Edited to add: My daughter doesn’t understand student loans and compound interest fully yet but I’m trying to enlighten her. I don’t want to push her too much about her predicament! She’s pissed off about high rent and wondering how she’ll ever buy a house. Not thick just a bit angry and learning about life!

If the younger generations don’t get very very angry in the next decade I’ll eat all my hats. More than ten th chow down on!

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1 hour ago, Van Lady said:

IMO it’s not that simple.

My daughter has around £35k student loan debt after doing a degree and masters in biology/environment/conservation. 

How if you don’t mind me asking?  I thought it was free up in Scotland?  

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Just now, One percent said:

How if you don’t mind me asking?  I thought it was free up in Scotland?  

I’ve explained before that my daughter had to leave home to attend university so her student loans are for living costs in Edinburgh. She did get a bursary of around £2k per year because of my single parent circumstances. Thankfully my daughter worked her way through uni to help with costs and hasn’t fared too badly in racking up £35k student loan debt. Rent has been £300-£400 pm sharing. That accounts for around £20k over five years.

If she’d had to pay £9k per year tuition fees on top ....an extra £45k ....then it wouldn’t have been possible for her to try to better herself. She’d have had to stay a minimum wage serf at the likes of Tesco with no hope of getting on in life.

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Just now, Van Lady said:

I’ve explained before that my daughter had to leave home to attend university so her student loans are for living costs in Edinburgh. She did get a bursary of around £2k per year because of my single parent circumstances. Thankfully my daughter worked her way through uni to help with costs and hasn’t fared too badly in racking up £35k student loan debt. Rent has been £300-£400 pm sharing. That accounts for around £20k over five years.

If she’d had to pay £9k per year tuition fees on top ....an extra £45k ....then it wouldn’t have been possible for her to try to better herself. She’d have had to stay a minimum wage serf at the likes of Tesco with no hope of getting on in life.

Ah ta.  So the tuition fees are free but not subsistence. Kid of seems a bit daft. Either give grants and free tuition... 

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Ah ta.  So the tuition fees are free but not subsistence. Kid of seems a bit daft. Either give grants and free tuition... 

I suppose for folk living in uni cities with no tuition fees it’s easier and also for kids from families who can afford to help financially.

The younger generation from all backgrounds have my sympathy though because I think the world is heading towards terrible times for all.

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2 hours ago, Van Lady said:

I’ve explained before that my daughter had to leave home to attend university so her student loans are for living costs in Edinburgh. She did get a bursary of around £2k per year because of my single parent circumstances. Thankfully my daughter worked her way through uni to help with costs and hasn’t fared too badly in racking up £35k student loan debt. Rent has been £300-£400 pm sharing. That accounts for around £20k over five years.

If she’d had to pay £9k per year tuition fees on top ....an extra £45k ....then it wouldn’t have been possible for her to try to better herself. She’d have had to stay a minimum wage serf at the likes of Tesco with no hope of getting on in life.

It would have been possible. She would just have ended up with an even larger write off when she reaches 55.

Stupid bloody system.

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10 hours ago, Van Lady said:

IMO it’s not that simple.

My daughter has around £35k student loan debt after doing a degree and masters in biology/environment/conservation. Luckily she has got a full time job based in Edinburgh as a graduate ecologist. She’s got prospects to raise her earnings from 18k per annum through gaining training and experience provided by a very decent boss of a small but established company in her field.

She’s only earning 6k more per annum than I was when I left a run of the mill local bank job twenty five years. I left school at age 16 with very decent o levels and no debt!

Daughter is loving her job learning about ecological clerk of works duties and undertaking a wide variety of surveys around Scotland with vehicle provided, accommodation and expenses paid.

Her other choice was leaving school and working in a minimum wage and probably boring job with little to no prospects of bettering herself.

I am extremely relieved that my daughter has “landed on her feet” by getting a job with prospects because I know that many the majority? of uni attendants end up much worse off.

Edited to add: My daughter doesn’t understand student loans and compound interest fully yet but I’m trying to enlighten her. I don’t want to push her too much about her predicament! She’s pissed off about high rent and wondering how she’ll ever buy a house. Not thick just a bit angry and learning about life!

If the younger generations don’t get very very angry in the next decade I’ll eat all my hats. More than ten th chow down on!

She didn't need the degree (and especially the Masters) to get such a post...although I am sure the university advised her that she did...she could have worked free of charge whist she gained her protected species licences and would now be earning an average of £24k depending on how many of these she held.

That said, study shouldn't just be about doing a degree to get a job, but for a love of learning the subject, and its great that she has found a career/job that she enjoys...just make sure she understands the compounding properly and pays off the loan ASAP.

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On 02/11/2018 at 22:47, Van Lady said:

hasn’t fared too badly in racking up £35k student loan debt

No-one should be allowed to rack up that kind of debt at that age.  Sure, they may benefit (although not all with the present scam) but so too does society.  It's morally wrong and very short sighted.

As a taxpayer, I'll probably end up paying the write-off which will be higher than before because of the insane tuition fees (the predicted course of events here having not happened) and those in the sector making off like bandits. 

Better and cheaper if we have lower tuition fees with a smaller sector and the top (based on merit) 10% of students get a grant paid out of taxes.  Others, including foreign, can pay if they want. 

The rest should be at technical colleges, with forced funding by the corporates.  Indeed, if we had to, I'd rather get rid of unis before technical colleges.

Funny, I remember a time.....

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6 minutes ago, Harley said:

No-one should be allowed to rack up that kind of debt at that age.  Sure, they may benefit (although not all with the present scam) but so too does society.  It's morally wrong and very short sighted.

As a taxpayer, I'll probably end up paying the write-off which will be higher than before because of the insane tuition fees (the predicted course of events here having not happened) and those in the sector making off like bandits. 

Better and cheaper if we have lower tuition fees with a smaller sector and the top (based on merit) 10% of students get a grant paid out of taxes.  Others, including foreign, can pay if they want. 

The rest should be at technical colleges, with forced funding by the corporates.  Indeed, if we had to, I'd rather get rid of unis before technical colleges.

Funny, I remember a time.....

I can see a class action at some point in the future. Can you imagine the furore if some loanshark load a 17 year old (this was the age when the choice was made) with that amount of debt?  

Country is fooked.  

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

I can see a class action at some point in the future. Can you imagine the furore if some loanshark load a 17 year old (this was the age when the choice was made) with that amount of debt?  

Country is fooked.  

With the taxpayer taking the hit, not the HE sector!

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7 minutes ago, One percent said:

I can see a class action at some point in the future. Can you imagine the furore if some loanshark load a 17 year old (this was the age when the choice was made) with that amount of debt?  

Country is fooked.  

 

Just now, Harley said:

With the taxpayer taking the hit, not the HE sector!

 

I think that it is far more than a technicality that the repayment comes in the form of an additional "graduate" tax rather which stops IIRC at 50 rather than being like a mortgage or loan which you have to keep paying whatever your circumstances or you go bankrupt.  This very much differentiates it from debt IMO.

This does however further exacerbate the problem picked up on other threads of people refusing promotions because the extra hours and stress are not worth the squeezed differential (through increases in minimum / living wage for the base jobs) once NI and tax are taken off; add in graduate tax and there is even less reason to take a promotion.

So you end up with a educated workforce turning down promotions because they're not worth taking.  And productivity slides even further down the slope as a consequence.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

 

I think that it is far more than a technicality that the repayment comes in the form of an additional "graduate" tax rather which stops IIRC at 50 rather than being like a mortgage or loan which you have to keep paying whatever your circumstances or you go bankrupt.  This very much differentiates it from debt IMO.

This does however further exacerbate the problem picked up on other threads of people refusing promotions because the extra hours and stress are not worth the squeezed differential (through increases in minimum / living wage for the base jobs) once NI and tax are taken off; add in graduate tax and there is even less reason to take a promotion.

So you end up with a educated workforce turning down promotions because they're not worth taking.  And productivity slides even further down the slope as a consequence.

Oh what a tangled web we weave....  

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Oh what a tangled web we weave....  

Yes, @dgul's post on the other thread summed up beautifully what an ill-conceived disaster was the Blairite idea of degrees for everyone.

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Talking Monkey
On ‎02‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 21:02, Van Lady said:

IMO it’s not that simple.

My daughter has around £35k student loan debt after doing a degree and masters in biology/environment/conservation. Luckily she has got a full time job based in Edinburgh as a graduate ecologist. She’s got prospects to raise her earnings from 18k per annum through gaining training and experience provided by a very decent boss of a small but established company in her field.

She’s only earning 6k more per annum than I was when I left a run of the mill local bank job twenty five years. I left school at age 16 with very decent o levels and no debt!

Daughter is loving her job learning about ecological clerk of works duties and undertaking a wide variety of surveys around Scotland with vehicle provided, accommodation and expenses paid.

Her other choice was leaving school and working in a minimum wage and probably boring job with little to no prospects of bettering herself.

I am extremely relieved that my daughter has “landed on her feet” by getting a job with prospects because I know that many the majority? of uni attendants end up much worse off.

Edited to add: My daughter doesn’t understand student loans and compound interest fully yet but I’m trying to enlighten her. I don’t want to push her too much about her predicament! She’s pissed off about high rent and wondering how she’ll ever buy a house. Not thick just a bit angry and learning about life!

If the younger generations don’t get very very angry in the next decade I’ll eat all my hats. More than ten th chow down on!

Goes to show how wages have gone nowhere in 25 years more or less. The opportunities for the young are abysmal. It is shameful the way kids have been forced to load up on debt that they will never be able to repay, to get a job that will probably never pay enough for them to buy a home

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10 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Goes to show how wages have gone nowhere in 25 years more or less. The opportunities for the young are abysmal. It is shameful the way kids have been forced to load up on debt that they will never be able to repay, to get a job that will probably never pay enough for them to buy a home

Yes, I feel very sorry for all the young folk born to ordinary working people. The life prospects for the majority are truly abysmal.

I’m angry that my daughter has incurred student debt pursuing her path to get a job paying 18k per annum. Luckily she has future prospects to earn much more. I appreciate posts about alternative routes for what she wanted to do but I was unable to advise her due to no knowledge of ecology etc and needless to say no career “advisor” ever told her.

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