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Dave Bloke

Guardian journalist experiences socialist nirvana at first hand

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29 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

No mention of Venezeula being Cuntbyn's role model and the late Chavez his hero I guess.

No, just mentioned Trump as if he somehow had something to do with it failing

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Does nobody realise that the misfortunes of Venezuela have nothing to do with Chavez, it's all down to seditious activities by the USA, falling oil prices, and some mismanagement by Maduro.

Chavez had nothing to do with constantly falling oil production after he came to power in 1998, massive money printing, expropriation + nationalisation of most of the private sector, intimidation of political opponents, censhorship + closure + sactioning of any critical newspapers or television channels, or spending hours of his time shamelessly promoting himself on television

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'Welcome, Tristram. I believe you are the new intern from the Guardian come to report on the worker's paradise of Venezuela? I am Carlos, your guide.'

'Er, like, cool! So, like, is there any where I can like get wifi, cos I think I'm like in a dead spot here.'

'Unfortunately wifi is not available at the moment.'

'Er...ok, erm, so how about like erm if I use an ethernet cable, I've got one in my man bag, I can like connect it to the router.'

'I am sorry. There is no internet or telephone service anywhere. The workers have been on strike for the last six months as they have not been paid for a year'.

'Oh...erm...so...erm...like...I'm just gonna go like back to the airport for a bit and like, go back to Britain for a bit, you know? Peace out, and up the revolution and all that! Bye!'

 

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The problems of Venezuela started in the 1950's with the reliance of the economy on oil, came into crisis with Perez in the 70's/80's as a result of the oil crises, and everything else since then has just been the downstream effects.  Chavez didn't help, but not directly because he was a crazy communist, but because, being a crazy communist, he had to be seen to fail.  Venezuela is a prime example of the deleterious effects of Dutch disease -- other countries should take note.

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23 minutes ago, dgul said:

The problems of Venezuela started in the 1950's with the reliance of the economy on oil, came into crisis with Perez in the 70's/80's as a result of the oil crises, and everything else since then has just been the downstream effects.  Chavez didn't help, but not directly because he was a crazy communist, but because, being a crazy communist, he had to be seen to fail.  Venezuela is a prime example of the deleterious effects of Dutch disease -- other countries should take note.

Norway seems to have done alright with it's oil and gas reserves.

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At no point in the article does he come anywhere close to even thinking that, just possibly, this may have something to with socialism as opposed to, say, Trump or some other completely irrelevant factor. Self-delusion of the highest order.

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43 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Norway seems to have done alright with it's oil and gas reserves.

Norway didn't make any money from oil until the 1980's -- half a century after oil became important to Venezuela.

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28 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

At no point in the article does he come anywhere close to even thinking that, just possibly, this may have something to with socialism as opposed to, say, Trump or some other completely irrelevant factor. Self-delusion of the highest order.

Nothing wrong with socialism. But it has to be real socialism, Swiss-style, not representative politics, because in representative politics lefty twat closet aristocrats think they know what's good for other people, which finishes in disaster wherever it's practiced.

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18 minutes ago, dgul said:

Norway didn't make any money from oil until the 1980's -- half a century after oil became important to Venezuela.

Isn't that because they didn't find it until then, or perhaps because the tech to get at it wasn't developed?  Sorry don't know the history.

Even if oil/gas had been available to them before, I suspect they'd have done a lot better than other countries did. Hardy self-reliant people with the idea of preparing for rainy days and cold winters baked into the culture.

 

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I believe there is some fairly strong evidence that large amounts of natural resources "spoil" a country. I think if a country has a lot of oil it drives up the exchange rate meaning manufacturing is uncompetitive. I'd imagine it's also far easier for a political elite to steal the proceeds from oil. 

I think a successful country needs a strong middle class. For that you need well paid jobs for locals and not expats coming in from abroad to extract oil.

Norway has a managed to hold its exchange rate down by buying massive amounts of shares in foreign countries.

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3 hours ago, Great Guy said:

I believe there is some fairly strong evidence that large amounts of natural resources "spoil" a country. I think if a country has a lot of oil it drives up the exchange rate meaning manufacturing is uncompetitive. I'd imagine it's also far easier for a political elite to steal the proceeds from oil. 

I think a successful country needs a strong middle class. For that you need well paid jobs for locals and not expats coming in from abroad to extract oil.

Norway has a managed to hold its exchange rate down by buying massive amounts of shares in foreign countries.

Yes -- that's the Dutch disease.

Think of the countries that had lots of oil in the early days, and what happened to them after the oil crash of the 70's:  Iran (socialist theocracy), Saudi (far-right religious mania), Iraq (sponsored dictatorship), Venezuela (rampant socialism), Kuwait (complicated), LIbya (sponsored dictatorship).  With each country the oil industry dominated and then destroyed the ability of the country to generate wealth in other areas.  Of the early oil producers only the USA survived well -- probably because the country was big enough to absorb the wealth without distorting things too much (IMO if Texas was independent it would look more like Venezuela than Norway).

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

Yes -- that's the Dutch disease.

Think of the countries that had lots of oil in the early days, and what happened to them after the oil crash of the 70's:  Iran (socialist theocracy), Saudi (far-right religious mania), Iraq (sponsored dictatorship), Venezuela (rampant socialism), Kuwait (complicated), LIbya (sponsored dictatorship).  With each country the oil industry dominated and then destroyed the ability of the country to generate wealth in other areas.  Of the early oil producers only the USA survived well -- probably because the country was big enough to absorb the wealth without distorting things too much (IMO if Texas was independent it would look more like Venezuela than Norway).

Wasn't the Spanish economy destroyed by South American gold in the sixteenth century.

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