What's going to collapse next...

[Errol]

Café Rouge and Bella Italia owner falls into administration - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53270679

[leonardratso]

they fell into it, accidentally.

[DownwardSpiral]

I’ve had a few meals at Bella Italia but only when there were deals on Wuntu (an app from 3 which has now shut down). Could get a bowl of pasta for £3 or £5 which was fair enough at that price - saved on washing the dishes. Apart from others getting their £3 meal there was never anybody else in there. The only time I saw anybody paying full price at Bella Italia in Cardiff was on rugby international days. All of these crappy food outlets need to shut down, they are failing/failed businesses.

[stop_the_craziness]

3 hours ago, Errol said:

Café Rouge and Bella Italia owner falls into administration - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53270679

I don't even need to Google whether this one was up to the eyeballs in private equity do I?  It's such a well-worn script it's getting pretty boring now.  Seriously just how many trillions and trillions of pounds has been siphoned off from this type of legalised theft?

[Shamone]

4 hours ago, Errol said:

Café Rouge and Bella Italia owner falls into administration - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53270679

I thought they went bust already.

[lid]

Has anyone seen Man Fire Food?

It's a TV show fronted by Roger Mooking (great name btw) basically showcasing what you can do with, well, fire and erm food.

I think there's a distinct lack of proper BBQ food outlets in this country

Could be a winner?

Everybody gotta eat, right?

 

[Frank Hovis]

9 hours ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I don't even need to Google whether this one was up to the eyeballs in private equity do I?  It's such a well-worn script it's getting pretty boring now.  Seriously just how many trillions and trillions of pounds has been siphoned off from this type of legalised theft?

What I fail to understand is that as the model for this is to buy an existing profitable business, load it up with so much debt that it starts creaking, take a lot of money out, and then try to keep it going for a few years before the inevitable demise then that makes no sense at all for the company providing the debt unless they can secure it against assets.  Which those companies don't have.

If there is effective theft then it is theft from the lenders but, as someone who worked in that field, they are incredibly cautious particularly in these days of minimal returns so why are they allowing this to happen?

[Democorruptcy]

10 hours ago, DownwardSpiral said:

I’ve had a few meals at Bella Italia but only when there were deals on Wuntu (an app from 3 which has now shut down). Could get a bowl of pasta for £3 or £5 which was fair enough at that price - saved on washing the dishes. Apart from others getting their £3 meal there was never anybody else in there. The only time I saw anybody paying full price at Bella Italia in Cardiff was on rugby international days. All of these crappy food outlets need to shut down, they are failing/failed businesses.

I had a weak moment and did the same with Wildwood 50% off deals. Even at half price I was a bit ashamed of myself thinking of my Homepride Pasta Bake @ 79p from Home Bargains (Same jars are £1.60 at Tesco)

[Hardhat]

Byron Burger back in the news, their balance sheet has been a mess since around 2018, when they entered into a CVA.

[stop_the_craziness]

6 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

What I fail to understand is that as the model for this is to buy an existing profitable business, load it up with so much debt that it starts creaking, take a lot of money out, and then try to keep it going for a few years before the inevitable demise then that makes no sense at all for the company providing the debt unless they can secure it against assets.  Which those companies don't have.

If there is effective theft then it is theft from the lenders but, as someone who worked in that field, they are incredibly cautious particularly in these days of minimal returns so why are they allowing this to happen?

To create the illusion of "an economy"?  You are probably much wiser in this area than me, I'm still reeling from finding out that money is created at the click of a mouse.  No matter how many times I repeat it in my head I still think I've somehow misunderstood something fundamental.

[Frank Hovis]

6 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

To create the illusion of "an economy"?  You are probably much wiser in this area than me, I'm still reeling from finding out that money is created at the click of a mouse.  No matter how many times I repeat it in my head I still think I've somehow misunderstood something fundamental.

I agree.

I think that in all of our heads we remain on the gold standard and think that money has an intrinsic worth even though it no longer has that.

When however something has no intrinsic value and the government can create as much of it as it wishes then that reinforces the idea that it's not a great thing to hold as a long term investment.

(Specifically long term; I am holding more cash at present than I ever have owing to likely cash needs over the next few years. Sometimes cash can make sense despite its flakiness.)

[Green Devil]

1 hour ago, stop_the_craziness said:

To create the illusion of "an economy"?  You are probably much wiser in this area than me, I'm still reeling from finding out that money is created at the click of a mouse.  No matter how many times I repeat it in my head I still think I've somehow misunderstood something fundamental.

Surely counterfeiting is illegal? 

Ahh, it is if you're a pleb, but not if you're a banker. 

[dgul]

Sykes Cottages.

They've just announced that they'll offer refunds to be paid by the end of the month.

I don't think they've got the cash -- I think they've worked out a pre-pack solution.

[Chewing Grass]

Think its too late for the holday industry to make any money this year, have just read this and most people will think 'fuck-it' as it isn't worth the hassle.

Holidays are supposed to be relaxing and more fun than staying at home, this isn't.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/07/how-safe-is-my-uk-holiday/

[eek]

1 minute ago, Chewing Grass said:

Think its too late for the holday industry to make any money this year, have just read this and most people will think 'fuck-it' as it isn't worth the hassle.

Holidays are supposed to be relaxing and more fun than staying at home, this isn't.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/07/how-safe-is-my-uk-holiday/

We cancelled our 2 weeks in Cornwall last week as there was zero point travelling to be in a smaller house with the hassle of booking things in advance.

It's since been taken by someone else so I'm led to believe we will be getting a full refund of our deposit. 

[Loki]

3 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Think its too late for the holday industry to make any money this year, have just read this and most people will think 'fuck-it' as it isn't worth the hassle.

Holidays are supposed to be relaxing and more fun than staying at home, this isn't.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/07/how-safe-is-my-uk-holiday/

Quote

Bear in mind that you might not be able to find any WC facilities when you’re out and about, as many attractions aren’t reopening toilets for health and safety reasons.

Tired: Corona

Wired: 19th century London open sewer diseases

Edited July 3, 2020 by Loki

[Popuplights]

19 hours ago, lid said:

Has anyone seen Man Fire Food?

It's a TV show fronted by Roger Mooking (great name btw) basically showcasing what you can do with, well, fire and erm food.

I think there's a distinct lack of proper BBQ food outlets in this country

Could be a winner?

Everybody gotta eat, right?

 

Im in Texas. BBQ places all over the place. I think there could be a market for it in the UK, a basic shed, trestle tables, drive through and takeaway enabled. 

Would need to import a pitmaster from the US at first, learn the ropes and then do it yourself.

 

[spygirl]

14 hours ago, dgul said:

Sykes Cottages.

They've just announced that they'll offer refunds to be paid by the end of the month.

I don't think they've got the cash -- I think they've worked out a pre-pack solution.

Holiday  cottage letting agencies attract shysters.

They ioperate on very scammy terms.

All the daft (mainly wimmin) who pile into 'investing' in a holiday let soon discover that the agency skim ~20% and they earn fuck all.

 

[Castlevania]

On 03/07/2020 at 08:48, Frank Hovis said:

What I fail to understand is that as the model for this is to buy an existing profitable business, load it up with so much debt that it starts creaking, take a lot of money out, and then try to keep it going for a few years before the inevitable demise then that makes no sense at all for the company providing the debt unless they can secure it against assets.  Which those companies don't have.

If there is effective theft then it is theft from the lenders but, as someone who worked in that field, they are incredibly cautious particularly in these days of minimal returns so why are they allowing this to happen?

Junk bonds. There are a lot of pension funds desperate for yield.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Castlevania

[Andersen]

Harverys furniture has gone into administration (but subsidiary Bensons Beds looks to have been saved by buy-out) https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8475289/Furniture-chain-Harveys-falls-administration.html

It must be the first time their "Massive Reductions - Everything Must Go" sale signs were legit !

[Democorruptcy]

17 hours ago, dgul said:

Sykes Cottages.

They've just announced that they'll offer refunds to be paid by the end of the month.

I don't think they've got the cash -- I think they've worked out a pre-pack solution.

Last year on the train going into Chester I saw their huge glass building and read that they employed over 500 people. I hadn't realised the scale of it and thought if ever there was the chance, it might be a firm to short. Then Vitruvian Partners bought it for £375m last October!

Quote

 

The business saw profits during the year to the end of September 2019 rise to over £20m on the back of sales of £68m.

In April, Sykes took its first step into the international market by acquiring a majority stake in Bachcare, the leading holiday rental firm in New Zealand with over 2,000 properties.

Vitruvian Partners has a strong history in travel businesses, backing Travel Counsellors, Skyscanner, and JacTravel, as well as listed technology company Just Eat.

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2050372-holiday-cottages-firm-sold-in-deal-worth-375m

 

 

 

[dgul]

51 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

Last year on the train going into Chester I saw their huge glass building and read that they employed over 500 people. I hadn't realised the scale of it and thought if ever there was the chance, it might be a firm to short. Then Vitruvian Partners bought it for £375m last October!

 

 

The complicated part is the way they've made life difficult for themselves.

So, they act as an intermediary.  If someone books a cottage they take their fee (20% or so IIRC) and pass the rest of the cash to the cottage owner.

Up until now they've been saying 'refunds are the problem of the owner, not them'.  Technically they should refund the 20%, but that's a detail -- people will want that 80% back. 

But owners are a bunch of 'normal folk', many of whom will be crap, stubborn and/or bent.  So those refunds haven't been issued. 

Sykes has now more-or-less said they'd issue the full refunds -- but the bulk of that money doesn't exist (it sits with with the owner).  So, the question is, if Sykes is paying out the full amount, what's the timescale of their ongoing liability?  Some owners will be able to pay the money back to Sykes, but many 'will have spent it already' and not actually have it to return (or, at least, claim this to be the case).  In which case, what's the ongoing cashflow like for Sykes?

[eg, they might just take the 'refund cost' from next year's booking, in which case their liability might only be a few months long.]

I guess it is a case of 'watch this space'.

Edited July 4, 2020 by dgul

[Democorruptcy]

4 hours ago, dgul said:

The complicated part is the way they've made life difficult for themselves.

So, they act as an intermediary.  If someone books a cottage they take their fee (20% or so IIRC) and pass the rest of the cash to the cottage owner.

Up until now they've been saying 'refunds are the problem of the owner, not them'.  Technically they should refund the 20%, but that's a detail -- people will want that 80% back. 

But owners are a bunch of 'normal folk', many of whom will be crap, stubborn and/or bent.  So those refunds haven't been issued. 

Sykes has now more-or-less said they'd issue the full refunds -- but the bulk of that money doesn't exist (it sits with with the owner).  So, the question is, if Sykes is paying out the full amount, what's the timescale of their ongoing liability?  Some owners will be able to pay the money back to Sykes, but many 'will have spent it already' and not actually have it to return (or, at least, claim this to be the case).  In which case, what's the ongoing cashflow like for Sykes?

[eg, they might just take the 'refund cost' from next year's booking, in which case their liability might only be a few months long.]

I guess it is a case of 'watch this space'.

I know an owner who uses them for their cottages. Sykes take a 20% cut per booking. The deposit is 30% and the 70% balance nearer the date. Once covid struck Sykes wanted the full amounts back from the owner who paid up. Then Sykes only gave the customer a credit note for use at any of their properties. The owner was very annoyed that Sykes took the money back from them but didn't pass it onto the customer. The owner was worried the customer may think the owner hasn't paid it back to Sykes. They recently got a quote from another agent and their 18% seemed aimed at undercutting Sykes. The other agent told the owner Sykes had been sold last year, the owner didn't know, Sykes never bothered telling them.

Sykes will be doing the refunds now because they will be getting full amounts paid for imminent summer holidays. If an owner cannot afford to pay the money back as a refund, another customer might take the same date when it's re-advertised. Sykes then don't have to pass it on and just keep it for the original booking.

[201p]

Most of the major high street empty shops that are up for rent, are listed in this local newspaper article:

E.g:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18561134.southampton-city-centre---shops-rent/

67 Above Bar (1,432 sq ft)

The property comprises a ground floor retail unit with ancillary basement sales & storage area within a five storey building and benefits from extensive double retail frontage. We understand the unit has consent for uses within Class A1 & A3 (Shop & Restaurants and Cafes).

Rent: £6,250pcm.

That's around 2,000 cups of coffee at £3 each you need to sell per month, 520 cups a week, or 74 cups a day or 9 per hour (if open for 8 hours a day). This doesn't include wages, bills, Business rates.

Have fun!

Edited July 4, 2020 by 201p

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, 201p said:

Most of the major high street empty shops that are up for rent, are listed in this local newspaper article:

E.g:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18561134.southampton-city-centre---shops-rent/

67 Above Bar (1,432 sq ft)

The property comprises a ground floor retail unit with ancillary basement sales & storage area within a five storey building and benefits from extensive double retail frontage. We understand the unit has consent for uses within Class A1 & A3 (Shop & Restaurants and Cafes).

Rent: £6,250pcm.

That's around 2,000 cups of coffee at £3 each you need to sell per month, 520 cups a week, or 74 cups a day or 9 per hour (if open for 8 hours a day). This doesn't include wages, bills, Business rates.

Have fun!

Sotons a big old centre with niot a lot money around, outside of the student pound.

Last 20 years have seen a lot of jobs lost in Soton. And fuck all new ones created.

Realistic rent for somewhere like that is 2k tops.