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spunko

Right To Repair

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1 hour ago, spunko said:

Very Dosbodian sounding but will it apply to new  cars? I can access the battery and that's it, in mine. The rest is sealed under plastic. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46797396

Actually, I'd suggest that the 'car model' is what the solution will look like -- complex assemblies that can only be repaired by experts.

This isn't a 'demand to make devices sufficiently modular and simple that they can be repaired by the owner'

but rather a 'at least make it repairable, rather than have it all sealed for life, when 'life' is about 3 years for a white good'

But it is a reasonable start, given how things have gone way too far the 'wrong way' in recent years.

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Just now, dgul said:

Actually, I'd suggest that the 'car model' is what the solution will look like -- complex assemblies that can only be repaired by experts. 

 

How else do you learn about the mechanics of a car if you can't tinker about under the bonnet?

I hate getting caked in grease and oil so I probably still wouldn't bother but a lot of people would.

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BBC covering this on Breakfast as a good news EU regulation / Saving the planet from global warming story.

I imagine part of the reason for sealed units in the first place would be regulation and liability.

Consumerism requires new, shiny things as does the faux God of GDP.

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

Actually, I'd suggest that the 'car model' is what the solution will look like -- complex assemblies that can only be repaired by experts.

This isn't a 'demand to make devices sufficiently modular and simple that they can be repaired by the owner'

but rather a 'at least make it repairable, rather than have it all sealed for life, when 'life' is about 3 years for a white good'

But it is a reasonable start, given how things have gone way too far the 'wrong way' in recent years.

You can’t repair it and can’t find anyone else to at a decent price, so it joins the global mountain of junk.

The big lie - hidden within the inflation stats is that a hell of a lot of goods are not unserviceable due to the way it is designed and manufactured, the manufacturer damn well  knows from the outset that only a fool would bother due to the serviceable life of the product and a deep knowledge of the materials and components used in the equipment - equipment made cheap to be junked within a short period of time. You'll never see this pointed out by the MSM, would be very uncomfortable and expose so much that has gone wrong over the last few decades.

The global mountain of junk follows hot on the heals of junking western economies and currencies.

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I've always taken the view that if somebody else can fix it so can I. Problem is these days it's less and less likely somebody can actually fix it.

But it's getting more difficult, replaced the seat belt tensioner on my car pre MOT the other month, job took about 5 minutes. Problem was it took about 3 hours to visit various Halfords to find the exact torx bit to remove the seat. No idea why they can't user a "standard" bolt, nothing special or important to warrant using anything else from what I could see other than making it difficult for you to do it yourself.

 

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2 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I'd love to know how they imagine this is going to be "policed".

Will washing machines etc be given a mark out of 10 for longevity and repairability? Using what criteria exactly?

No, they get points for being "green" so they can sell you another one in 3 years

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3 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I'd love to know how they imagine this is going to be "policed".

Will washing machines etc be given a mark out of 10 for longevity and repairability? Using what criteria exactly?

The same way universities grade themselves on student outcomes? 
Give everyone a 1st and it makes it the place to go and get a first.

You will need people who can repair things if you want things repaired.

Almost a lost skill?

Husband will have a go at mending just about anything and has some appropriate background to the electronics stuff he does. 

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What I find frustrating is the difficulty in finding the parts needed to repair something.

A couple of examples: The door handles in our house are spring loaded, on a couple of them the spring has broken meaning the handle just flops down. All that's needed is to replace the spring. I don't know where to get one so I've had to replace the entire handle assembly. Not a big deal or particularly expensive but wasteful. Perhaps if I had some metal working skills and access to a workshop I could have fabricated some. That would be very time consuming for a component that should only cost a few pence.

Also electronics are infuriating. The control panel on our boiler failed when it was two years old. Outside manufacturers warranty. So the circuit board assembly had to be replaced. About £150 in 2009. I'm sure all that failed was a diode, capacitor or something mysterious to me. The cost to replace should have only been a few pence for the component and a few pounds for the labour.

Also I have a few free standing air conditioning units that are faulty from a batch we acquired and sold a few years ago. The exhaust fan doesn't operate. The motor itself is fine so there's something wrong with the circuit board, I think. Basically these units are just a glorified refrigerator, I've tried a couple of domestic appliance repair people and they can't or don't want to work out what's wrong. The manufacturer doesn't supply these in the UK anymore and won't sell a replacement circuit board. I've searched the internet for replacements without luck. They're too good to throw out but useless as they are, so I've got half a dozen expensive door stops!

Thinking about it now I'll go to a repaircafe. There's one reasonably close and open this Saturday. If I can get them working it bodes for a wet and cold summer this year. 

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2 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

 

Thinking about it now I'll go to a repaircafe. There's one reasonably close and open this Saturday. If I can get them working it bodes for a wet and cold summer this year. 

https://repaircafe.org/en/

 

:)

Near me (well I say near)

Manchester Repair Café
Stitched Up HQ
527B WIlbraham Road
Manchester

I know one of the Stitched up ladies. :)
 

Levenshulme Repair Café
Levenshulme Inspire
747 Stockport Rd, Manchester
Manchester

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12 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

What I find frustrating is the difficulty in finding the parts needed to repair something.

A couple of examples: The door handles in our house are spring loaded, on a couple of them the spring has broken meaning the handle just flops down. All that's needed is to replace the spring. I don't know where to get one so I've had to replace the entire handle assembly. Not a big deal or particularly expensive but wasteful. Perhaps if I had some metal working skills and access to a workshop I could have fabricated some. That would be very time consuming for a component that should only cost a few pence.

Also electronics are infuriating. The control panel on our boiler failed when it was two years old. Outside manufacturers warranty. So the circuit board assembly had to be replaced. About £150 in 2009. I'm sure all that failed was a diode, capacitor or something mysterious to me. The cost to replace should have only been a few pence for the component and a few pounds for the labour.

Also I have a few free standing air conditioning units that are faulty from a batch we acquired and sold a few years ago. The exhaust fan doesn't operate. The motor itself is fine so there's something wrong with the circuit board, I think. Basically these units are just a glorified refrigerator, I've tried a couple of domestic appliance repair people and they can't or don't want to work out what's wrong. The manufacturer doesn't supply these in the UK anymore and won't sell a replacement circuit board. I've searched the internet for replacements without luck. They're too good to throw out but useless as they are, so I've got half a dozen expensive door stops!

Thinking about it now I'll go to a repaircafe. There's one reasonably close and open this Saturday. If I can get them working it bodes for a wet and cold summer this year. 

3d printer shops  combined with parts numbers may help with getting parts in the near future? But will the manufacturers co-operate?

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2 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I'm considering the purchase of a 3D printer, but again the cost, although not that expensive these days, and the learning curve seem a bit steep relative to what the cost of components for repairs should be.

Husband loves his. Can you use a 3d program to create shapes? 

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52 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I'd love to know how they imagine this is going to be "policed".

Will washing machines etc be given a mark out of 10 for longevity and repairability? Using what criteria exactly?

Maybe, like the Energy Efficiency ratings. Stupidly they didn't realise that "A" rated appliances 10 years later would have to be rated above "A" so now we have this ridiculous A++, A+ and soon A+++ system.

Anyway, for purely selfish reasons even if it does apply to new cars it doesn't matter to my longterm goal of buying an old 70s "shitter" (!) like this MG Midget Ashley GT. :x

 

 

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There are a lot of underhand things that manufacturers do to stop things being repairable, like grind the laser etched part numbers from electronic components to make them unidentifiable. I pulled apart a faulty 5.1 speaker system last year, there were 5 PCBs stacked up and then they'd drizzled some sort of cement like glue across all of the components, making it impossible to dismantle. Certain TV manufacturers will use parts that are years obsolete, so that when that part fails, it's new TV time.

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1 minute ago, spunko said:

Maybe, like the Energy Efficiency ratings. Stupidly they didn't realise that "A" rated appliances 10 years later would have to be rated above "A" so now we have this ridiculous A++, A+ and soon A+++ system.

Anyway, for purely selfish reasons even if it does apply to new cars it doesn't matter to my longterm goal of buying an old 70s "shitter" (!) like this MG Midget Ashley GT. :x

 

 

You are inspiring my to get rid of my old car, and get an even older one.

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Just now, MrPin said:

You are inspiring my to get rid of my old car, and get an even older one.

Isn't yours old and Japanese though? (ie still works and will likely continue to do so)

Those old Brit sports cars are pretty but you need a passion for them because they're not a reliable utilitarian vehicle.

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Posted (edited)

PC computers are the greatest modern self repairing products of our time. A computer's electronics can last for most part 10+ years. The case can last forever, so can keyboards. When the insides get out of date, they can be swapped out pretty easily, and can be repaired by PC technicians without having to buy specialist manufacturer tools. You don't have to take it to a "main dealer".

 

Henry Hoovers also get a thumbs up, as the design doesn't radically change year after year. You can get replacement hoses and attachments, bags, and motors.

 

Edited by 201p

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2 minutes ago, Snark said:

There are a lot of underhand things that manufacturers do to stop things being repairable, like grind the laser etched part numbers from electronic components to make them unidentifiable. I pulled apart a faulty 5.1 speaker system last year, there were 5 PCBs stacked up and then they'd drizzled some sort of cement like glue across all of the components, making it impossible to dismantle. Certain TV manufacturers will use parts that are years obsolete, so that when that part fails, it's new TV time.

I had a breadmaker which had served me well for years. Then one day it went wrong and I'm pretty sure all it was was the rubber drive band had snapped. However, I couldn't get it open because the whole unit had been riveted together instead of screwed. Had it been screwed I could have just opened the casing and replaced the drive band. Instead the whole thing had to be binned. I did manage to save the removable baking tin however and I now make bread by hand instead, and bake it in that tin.

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1 minute ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Isn't yours old and Japanese though? (ie still works and will likely continue to do so)

Those old Brit sports cars are pretty but you need a passion for them because they're not a reliable utilitarian vehicle.

Any old car requires more work than a modern oriental one. Be prepared to get dirty!

Yes, mine still goes well, but a lot of bits don't work.

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The worst are electric shavers. After so many years the model is discontinued and you can no longer buy the foils and blades.

Computer printers fall into the same category as the worst offenders. I suspect landfill has a good proportion of busted computer printers.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, 201p said:

The worst are electric shavers. After so many years the model is discontinued and you can no longer buy the foils and blades.

Computer printers fall into the same category as the worst offenders. I suspect landfill has a good proportion of busted computer printers.

Printers mostly use the 'Gilette' business model of making the initial outlay cheap (ie, the printer unit or the razor handle) but the replacement cartridges (or blades) expensive. The customer is tied in to constant replacement. Ker-ching! It's been working since disposable razor blades were invented c.1910.

Edited by Austin Allegro

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7 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I had a breadmaker which had served me well for years. Then one day it went wrong and I'm pretty sure all it was was the rubber drive band had snapped. However, I couldn't get it open because the whole unit had been riveted together instead of screwed. Had it been screwed I could have just opened the casing and replaced the drive band. Instead the whole thing had to be binned. I did manage to save the removable baking tin however and I now make bread by hand instead, and bake it in that tin.

We had one where a cog had broken. Could probably have 3d printed it these days.

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