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spunko

Right To Repair

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8 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Loads of washing machines and tumble driers scrapped because the drum and motor don't turn, usually the capacitor.

Most expensive one I've bought was £9, easy replacement.

I cry when I go to the dump and I can't take all that sort of stuff.

Edited by Harley

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5 hours ago, onlyme said:

IIRC MIele washer was around £500 compared £300 for another brand's cheapie, around 10 years of use and no issues at all thus far and has been hammered with working clothes. The fact that you see their service vans around shows that at least it is part of their model. Suspect spares and repair rates will not be cheap though.

Looks like the £500/£600 Miele washers only come with a two year warranty.

You have to spend about £1000 to get a 5 year warranty  (interestingly with very few extra "features").

Not to say that the cheap one would break after two years,  but it makes you realise that even with Miele the build quality varies from model to model.

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10 minutes ago, Libspero said:

build quality varies from model to model

Probably an increasing problem as things are now made for price points for mock sales, etc.  Always worth comparing product numbers to look for differences.

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3 hours ago, Libspero said:

Looks like the £500/£600 Miele washers only come with a two year warranty.

You have to spend about £1000 to get a 5 year warranty  (interestingly with very few extra "features").

Not to say that the cheap one would break after two years,  but it makes you realise that even with Miele the build quality varies from model to model.

You never know when the accountants take over and decide the sweat the brand, at which points all bets are off as all the industrial grade bearings for example are swapped for cheap just enough to get beyond the warranty quality ones. Could be here that say warranty is worth say £200/£300 over 5 years of very heavy usage and an extra £200 for peace of mind an quality of core components are basically the same, only time will tell or a breakdown to components and comparison of a couple of models. 

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4 hours ago, Harley said:

I cry when I go to the dump and I can't take all that sort of stuff.

Greater Manchester have no plans to recycle by letting people take stuff from the tip.
 

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7 hours ago, eight said:

:o But how were you supposed to know if you had crashed?

In case you're not being a smartie!...

They work with an always on current so the air bag fail light stays on (now an MOT fail) when the current to the sensor is lost due to, in this case, the sensor itself.  A diagnostic reader tells you this and sometimes which of the several sensors is at fault. Simply replace the sensor without setting the airbag off!

Or if you were being a smartie!...

'cause you won't be able to see the warning light, on account of you being a bit dead!

Edited by Harley

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22 hours ago, Libspero said:

Looks like the £500/£600 Miele washers only come with a two year warranty.

You have to spend about £1000 to get a 5 year warranty  (interestingly with very few extra "features").

Not to say that the cheap one would break after two years,  but it makes you realise that even with Miele the build quality varies from model to model.

We had a fault with our Miele washer/dryer. Repair costs are high and they try to sell insurance instead of just a repair bill. Ours is about 12 years old and has only had one repair. In fact its been more reliable than our coffee machine!

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3 hours ago, sleepwello'nights said:

In fact its been more reliable than our coffee machine!

I gave up buying coffee machines.  Probably should stop drinking the stuff too given the damage it was causing!

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On 10/01/2019 at 15:19, onlyme said:

You never know when the accountants take over and decide the sweat the brand, at which points all bets are off as all the industrial grade bearings for example are swapped for cheap just enough to get beyond the warranty quality ones. Could be here that say warranty is worth say £200/£300 over 5 years of very heavy usage and an extra £200 for peace of mind an quality of core components are basically the same, only time will tell or a breakdown to components and comparison of a couple of models. 

This. Seems to be a common strategy now. Witness Gates (Hunter Wellies), Brady bags, Bosch appliances etc. etc. I suspect it's taught as part of many MBA courses.

 

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On 10/01/2019 at 11:59, Libspero said:

Looks like the £500/£600 Miele washers only come with a two year warranty.

You have to spend about £1000 to get a 5 year warranty  (interestingly with very few extra "features").

Not to say that the cheap one would break after two years,  but it makes you realise that even with Miele the build quality varies from model to model.

I’ve just bought a new one. Went for the one with the 10 year guarantee as the repair costs are eye watering. 1000 quid but interest free over a year at JL. 

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2 hours ago, InLikeFlynn said:

This. Seems to be a common strategy now. Witness Gates (Hunter Wellies), Brady bags, Bosch appliances etc. etc. I suspect it's taught as part of many MBA courses.

 

Was going to mention Bosch, two year old washing machines should not be going wrong which I have seen.

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4 hours ago, Harley said:

I gave up buying coffee machines.  Probably should stop drinking the stuff too given the damage it was causing!

We have a thread for coffee machines. 

Anyhow, I have this, bought in 2011 and still going strong. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-ESAM-4200-S-Silver/dp/B001EOMZ5E/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1547230502&sr=1-2&keywords=delonghi+coffee+machine

i had to replace the black plastic brewing thingy but it cost 30 quid. @DTMark hasn’t had as much luck with his. 

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i bought a miele, just ran out of 2 year warranty, just a lowly one £650, the old £300 indesit lasted 9 years, so i expect great things from this miele, seems ok, no concrete blocks in it yet weighs more than the old concreted indesit. 90kg versus 60kg if i recall,

So far, so good, if it carries on being good then im happy with my purchase.

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4 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

i bought a miele, just ran out of 2 year warranty, just a lowly one £650, the old £300 indesit lasted 9 years, so i expect great things from this miele, seems ok, no concrete blocks in it yet weighs more than the old concreted indesit. 90kg versus 60kg if i recall,

So far, so good, if it carries on being good then im happy with my purchase.

Miele use a cast iron frame rather than concrete blocks. Meant to be more stable and longer lasting as it puts less strain on other parts 

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4 hours ago, One percent said:

I’ve just bought a new one. Went for the one with the 10 year guarantee as the repair costs are eye watering. 1000 quid but interest free over a year at JL. 

Should have got a LG Direct Drive

Build quality is superb as is the repairability and ability to dismantle to components-. Well impressed.

I know that's all useless and irritating information to you, but others might be interested.

Edited by Hopeful

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Knowing what is needed to do a repair is one thing, locating a spare is another.

Manufacturers cannot reasonably hold a massive inventory of all their parts; and global supply chains means that spares could be stocked anywhere. It makes more sense to keep subassemblies, but then the cost of the spare may be too high when labour is also taken into account.

People don't realise why complex products comprising hundreds of parts are so cheap. They are mass produced by machines using construction methods that are designed to make assembly simple, not taking them apart easy.

A lot of electrical products are obsolescent by the time they fail anyway.

I tend to use stuff until it breaks, then throw it away and get a new one. I generally can't be arsed to find the fault, identify the part number and supplier, order it at a cost approaching that of a new appliance, wait 5 weeks for the replacement and then fit it, only to then have a refurbished item that is out of date and for it to break down in a different failure mode because the whole thing has a limited design/operational life.

And I am an engineer.

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5 hours ago, leonardratso said:

i bought a miele, just ran out of 2 year warranty, just a lowly one £650, the old £300 indesit lasted 9 years, so i expect great things from this miele, seems ok, no concrete blocks in it yet weighs more than the old concreted indesit. 90kg versus 60kg if i recall,

So far, so good, if it carries on being good then im happy with my purchase.

I swear by Miele, only had one bad experience (see below), bought washing machine, drier and dishwasher in 2009 to go with our new house, washing machine with 10y warranty, drier 5y and dishwasher 2y. Cost an arm and a leg but have been worth it I think.

Washing machine and drier are still going strong with absolutely staggering use (3 children, both appliances work from Friday evening to Sunday late night non stop). Dishwasher though failed after about 3 years. The repair bill came at £400 so we risked it and bought another Miele with 5y warranty instead. The bet has paid off and this one has been working fine since.

Initially, we opted not to buy a Miele fridge and bought a Bosch instead (2y warranty). Failed (you guessed it) after 2y 1m. We bought a Miele straight after and has been operational ever since.

My late mother's Miele washing machine lasted 20 odd years, I remember moving to our new family home in the 80s with it and it being still there when I opened my wings and left to live on my own (couldn't take it with me unfortunatlely).

Repairs out of warranty are mighty expensive though, so if you get a duff one you are indeed out of pocket.

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I remember the first time I took a guitar amp in to be repaired being surprised to find that you've got to pay VAT on repairs (including labour charges).

A shop selling second hand stuff also has to charge VAT.

Tax an activity and you get less of it.

Maybe try cutting the smothering levels of tax first and see what happens?

 

 

Edited by SpectrumFX

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8 hours ago, Happy Renting said:

Knowing what is needed to do a repair is one thing, locating a spare is another.

Manufacturers cannot reasonably hold a massive inventory of all their parts; and global supply chains means that spares could be stocked anywhere. It makes more sense to keep subassemblies, but then the cost of the spare may be too high when labour is also taken into account.

People don't realise why complex products comprising hundreds of parts are so cheap. They are mass produced by machines using construction methods that are designed to make assembly simple, not taking them apart easy.

A lot of electrical products are obsolescent by the time they fail anyway.

I tend to use stuff until it breaks, then throw it away and get a new one. I generally can't be arsed to find the fault, identify the part number and supplier, order it at a cost approaching that of a new appliance, wait 5 weeks for the replacement and then fit it, only to then have a refurbished item that is out of date and for it to break down in a different failure mode because the whole thing has a limited design/operational life.

And I am an engineer.

I must have a tenacious repair gene somewhere, I had a piece of equipment that was bugging me for 3 years, difficult to fault find as it simply refused to turn on sometimes 9more times than not), in the end found out that the lcd display module was at fault, the  processor board I think was communicating with the display module and just sat there like a lemon if the display refused to communicate back, no diagnostics, no nothing, swapping the display fixed the problem. 

There are still brands/items out there designed for repair with suitable sources of parts, to the point that even the copycat  parts manufacturers go to the expense of making spares or others breaking for spares and selling on. What  sways it for me a lot of the time is that good/ repairable is generally better built, more reliable and better at its job and worth the initial higher cost and repair hassle if need be and more often than not will buy the best that I can second hand.

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i do wonder if it's a missed opportunity from many component manufacturers not directly marketing the components as parts for whatever third party appliance manufacturers they supplied them to once the model is obsolete and the appliance manufacturer has no interest in parts support - if they ever did have to start with. It might be they're legitimately concerned about displeasing the OEMs but it does seem like a waste when a bit more revenue could be easily wrung from existing tooling in an internet world.

Like with all things you have to take a balanced view on repairs. With something like a car gearbox, in most cases I daresay I could source parts and fix them, and have been forced to in many cases but, if available, I'd much rather spend the extra and have either an exchange from a remanufacturer, who has a dedicated testbed, or a known good one from a trusted breakers where you know it's working as it should when you put it in as it's just too much of a ballache getting it in and out for any sort of trial and error repair process.

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