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spygirl

Surviving R Kelly - sexasaurus

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https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/surviving-r-kelly-118608/

Surprisingly, Jones – a popular DJ for Dallas hip-hop and R&B station 97.9 The Beat – wasn’t in the audience. She’d been into Kelly since she was a teen in the early 1990s, when she’d hide in her room with his music to escape her mother’s tumultuous romantic relationships. She’d buy every magazine he was in and, upon the release of his 1993 solo debut, 12 Play, took a limo to a third-row seat at her first Kelly show. She’d seen him in concert seven times since. “He was my Brad Pitt,” she says.

But even though she was disappointed to miss it, bailing on the concert meant something better: she was at Fat Daddy’s, a club in suburban Mansfield, Texas, setting up for the Beat-sponsored after-party. She was finally going to meet the man she’d been captivated by for more than 20 years.

I bet this doesnt end well ....

 

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It is amazing that he keeps getting let off charges and that his records are still played on the radio; I heard "I beleive I can fly" on the So-Called BBC only last week.  Yet Gary Glitter who from my reading (let's add in a few "allegedly"s) has been a much less prolific offender that R Kelly may as well not have had a music career as his songs are now never played in the UK despite being IMO excellent pop songs and still widely played in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Kelly#Sex_scandals_and_allegations

I'm not minimising Gary Glitter's crimes but the way people become unpersons or not depending upon some arbitrary judgement of a broadcast editor is scary.

This song is brilliant, why doesn't it get played on the radio?

It's not like the So-Called BBC can lay claim to high moral standards with its decades' long facilitation of Jimmy Saville hosting programmes mainly featuring children when everyone knew what he was up to and its statue by Eric Gill standing proudly outside Broadcasting House.

4743727898_6f3a95012a_z.jpg

 

Eric Gill:

His personal diaries reveal that his religious beliefs did not limit his sexual activity which included several extramarital affairs, incest with his his two eldest teenage daughters, incestuous relationships with his sisters, and sexual acts on his dog.

 

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6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/surviving-r-kelly-118608/

Surprisingly, Jones – a popular DJ for Dallas hip-hop and R&B station 97.9 The Beat – wasn’t in the audience. She’d been into Kelly since she was a teen in the early 1990s, when she’d hide in her room with his music to escape her mother’s tumultuous romantic relationships. She’d buy every magazine he was in and, upon the release of his 1993 solo debut, 12 Play, took a limo to a third-row seat at her first Kelly show. She’d seen him in concert seven times since. “He was my Brad Pitt,” she says.

But even though she was disappointed to miss it, bailing on the concert meant something better: she was at Fat Daddy’s, a club in suburban Mansfield, Texas, setting up for the Beat-sponsored after-party. She was finally going to meet the man she’d been captivated by for more than 20 years.

I bet this doesnt end well ....

 

It's astonishing that a star from this genre of music should be lacking in respect for hos.

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39 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

This song is brilliant, why doesn't it get played on the radio?

 

 

I'm surprised that 'meet the fockers' still gets shown without his part 2 track being replaced or deleted

Edited by NewryH

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Why pretend to be outraged? It's never been any different! Pop music is all about teenage sexual desire and what the Japanese call 'selling spring'. Ask Simon Cowell.

Jerry Lee Lewis married not one but two of his 13 year old cousins. Elvis Presley had a child bride. The Beatles went through a mountain of jailbait all the while they were touring. Led Zeppelin took a 14 year old groupie on the road with them.

And then there's Annabella Lwin naked on the cover of BowWowWow's 'Go Wild in the Country', aged 14. The original lyric informing us that 'sex in the grass is absolutely free'.

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5 minutes ago, dgul said:

I still don't understand how they continue to play Michael Jackson stuff.

King of pop!

You can say the same about Led Zeppelin, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis.

I dislike that certain individuals are hung drawn and quartered and absolutely fair game on the puerile rubbish that passes for satire on BBC & Ch4 these days whereas other people continue unchecked as pop royalty and never have their reputations questions.

Do you think that David Bowie never had sex with an underage girl or boy?  He's still lauded to high heaven.

Joanthan King does and he's unemployable and never heard from again.

The Rolling Stones?  I'm certainly not accusing the drummer, Charlie Watts, of anything as everything I've read paints him as impeccable but what about the rest of them?  And Bill Wyman "going out with" a twelve year old FFS.

There are massive double standards operating in the pop heritage business.

5 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Why pretend to be outraged? It's never been any different! Pop music is all about teenage sexual desire and what the Japanese call 'selling spring'. Ask Simon Cowell.

Jerry Lee Lewis married not one but two of his 13 year old cousins. Elvis Presley had a child bride. The Beatles went through a mountain of jailbait all the while they were touring. Led Zeppelin took a 14 year old groupie on the road with them.

And then there's Annabella Lwin naked on the cover of BowWowWow's 'Go Wild in the Country', aged 14. The original lyric informing us that 'sex in the grass is absolutely free'.

It is the double standards of broadcasters that makes me outraged.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

King of pop!

You can say the same about Led Zeppelin, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis.

I dislike that certain individuals are hung drawn and quartered and absolutely fair game on the puerile rubbish that passes for satire on BBC & Ch4 these days whereas other people continue unchecked as pop royalty and never have their reputations questions.

Do you think that David Bowie never had sex with an underage girl or boy?  He's still lauded to high heaven.

Joanthan King does and he's unemployable and never heard from again.

The Rolling Stones?  I'm certainly not accusing the drummer, Charlie Watts, of anything as everything I've read paints him as impeccable but what about the rest of them?  And Bill Wyman "going out with" a twelve year old FFS.

There are massive double standards operating in the pop heritage business.

It is the double standards of broadcasters that makes me outraged.

Presumably whether someone brings a charge or not plays a role in the broadcaster's faux-outrage. Plus the relative "weight" of popularity of the individuals concerned.

So all those who have fucked teenagers under 16 but have never had accusations levelled at them remain "innocent" until accused, and being popular helps but this can turn on a dime. Dirty little world, entertainment. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

King of pop!

You can say the same about Led Zeppelin, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis.

I dislike that certain individuals are hung drawn and quartered and absolutely fair game on the puerile rubbish that passes for satire on BBC & Ch4 these days whereas other people continue unchecked as pop royalty and never have their reputations questions.

Do you think that David Bowie never had sex with an underage girl or boy?  He's still lauded to high heaven.

Joanthan King does and he's unemployable and never heard from again.

The Rolling Stones?  I'm certainly not accusing the drummer, Charlie Watts, of anything as everything I've read paints him as impeccable but what about the rest of them?  And Bill Wyman "going out with" a twelve year old FFS.

There are massive double standards operating in the pop heritage business.

It is the double standards of broadcasters that makes me outraged.

I guess it boils down to whether, in 20 years, people look back and think X was cool or not.

Bowie and Jimmy Page shared the same under age groupie 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix

However .... ones ded, one still has respect.

Jonathn King - seem as naff, naff old rapey poof.

Gary Gliter was pretty old in his peak. By 2000 it was embarrassing.

But - ad this has a bit of Adam Johnston abotu it - where does the blame lay?

15yo goes to a nightvlub and starts hanging around with rcok stars and doing drugs.

Who to blame nd by how much - rock star, nightclub for letting her in,  her parents for letting her out, or the girl herself - shes 15 and knows shes way underage.

Say, like Adam Johnston, I meet someone in a nightclub. Why can I make the case that I assumed she was over 18?

Why should jsut Adam Johnston go to jail. Surely the girls parents need jailing for child neglect? And the night club owner

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I guess it boils down to whether, in 20 years, people look back and think X was cool or not.

Bowie and Jimmy Page shared the same under age groupie 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix

However .... ones ded, one still has respect.

Jonathn King - seem as naff, naff old rapey poof.

Gary Gliter was pretty old in his peak. By 2000 it was embarrassing.

But - ad this has a bit of Adam Johnston abotu it - where does the blame lay?

15yo goes to a nightvlub and starts hanging around with rcok stars and doing drugs.

Who to blame nd by how much - rock star, nightclub for letting her in,  her parents for letting her out, or the girl herself - shes 15 and knows shes way underage.

Say, like Adam Johnston, I meet someone in a nightclub. Why can I make the case that I assumed she was over 18?

Why should jsut Adam Johnston go to jail. Surely the girls parents need jailing for child neglect? And the night club owner

 

 

 

Wasn't Glitter a "real" full-on paedo - ie pre-pubescent kids?

(This is not meant to to indicate I approve of shagging post-pubescent kids but in my mind at least, if not in the law, there is some difference)

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12 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Wasn't Glitter a "real" full-on paedo - ie pre-pubescent kids?

(This is not meant to to indicate I approve of shagging post-pubescent kids but in my mind at least, if not in the law, there is some difference)

IIRC he became that in later life having been driven abroad but I wouldn't swear to that; only he knows.

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1 hour ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

It's astonishing that a star from this genre of music should be lacking in respect for hos.

Quite, Shorty should speak when she spoken to.

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

Why pretend to be outraged? It's never been any different! Pop music is all about teenage sexual desire and what the Japanese call 'selling spring'. Ask Simon Cowell.

Virtually every song from the 60’s involved a man or group of men in their 20’s or 30’s singing about “innocent young girls”, get into my car, just turning 16, or theme there in 😂

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Eric Gill:

His personal diaries reveal that his religious beliefs did not limit his sexual activity which included several extramarital affairs, incest with his his two eldest teenage daughters, incestuous relationships with his sisters, and sexual acts on his dog.

And yet anyone in London will see his work every single day ...

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1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

King of pop!

You can say the same about Led Zeppelin, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis.

I dislike that certain individuals are hung drawn and quartered and absolutely fair game on the puerile rubbish that passes for satire on BBC & Ch4 these days whereas other people continue unchecked as pop royalty and never have their reputations questions.

Do you think that David Bowie never had sex with an underage girl or boy?  He's still lauded to high heaven.

Joanthan King does and he's unemployable and never heard from again.

The Rolling Stones?  I'm certainly not accusing the drummer, Charlie Watts, of anything as everything I've read paints him as impeccable but what about the rest of them?  And Bill Wyman "going out with" a twelve year old FFS.

There are massive double standards operating in the pop heritage business.

It is the double standards of broadcasters that makes me outraged.

[I wrote that comment on MJ before hearing about the new documentary -- I suppose something might happen now]

We're in a bit of a mess when it comes to underage sex.  The law is complex, but it is presented as a single entity -- that sex with an underaged person is bad.

But the situation is much more complex than that -- you've got the 'protect 13-16 year old's from themselves' and also 'protect younger kids from sexual exploitation'.  

So, you've got the rockers that were interested in pretty young things, but they were of the 'not quite old enough' variety, and society wasn't too serious about things in those days, anyway -- and I'm wary of the 'apply morals of today to the behaviour of the past' that seems to be popular these days.

But, all the evidence points towards MJ being interested in the much younger children (boys, which is relevant only insofar as boys reach sexual maturity later, so IMO sex with 'an average' 13 year old boy should be considered as different (in law) to sex with 'an average' 13 year old girl).  That's an entirely different matter.  Now, there isn't that much solid evidence to go on, but that's only because he gave vast sums of money to those who came out of the woodwork to keep them quiet.  Of course, we don't know that they weren't vexatious and he couldn't do anything else -- but it certainly isn't clear that he was clean.

Anyway, given the evidence out there I'll stick with my statement that I'm surprised that MJ is still played.

[And the recent documentary -- I'd like it to be sorted out.  If the guy was innocent then his name should be cleaned.  If he was guilty then he shouldn't be glorified, even if it does mean we don't get to hear Vincent Price's voice-over on Thriller*]

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1 hour ago, Rowley said:

Virtually every song from the 60’s involved a man or group of men in their 20’s or 30’s singing about “innocent young girls”, get into my car, just turning 16, or theme there in 😂

 

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

boys, which is relevant only insofar as boys reach sexual maturity later, so IMO sex with 'an average' 13 year old boy should be considered as different (in law) to sex with 'an average' 13 year old girl

I don't know about this. Girls may be physically mature younger but does not mean they are ready emotionally for sex at that age. I think sex with that age boys/girls equally bad and should be treated the same in law. There is a danger in linking punishment to puberty, may end up helping abusers like the grooming gangs?

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37 minutes ago, maudit said:

I don't know about this. Girls may be physically mature younger but does not mean they are ready emotionally for sex at that age. I think sex with that age boys/girls equally bad and should be treated the same in law. There is a danger in linking punishment to puberty, may end up helping abusers like the grooming gangs?

Maybe.  

I'll stick with the point that, at a given age up to about 17, an average girl will be more mature (in a multitude of facets) than 'an average boy' of the same age, but I'll accept that it is a complex field that needs quite a lot of consideration in law.

On a slightly different point, the thing that gets me (currently) is the criminalisation of mid-teens doing 'mid-teen stuff' with one another, and also (as far as I can tell) the gender difference in the way the law is applied.  Case in point -- Girl and boy in my kids' school.  Girl was sexually active.  Boy was immature and didn't really know what went on besides what was in sex-ed lessons.  Girl sends boy graphic porn photo of her bits. Boy shows his friend.  Girl is victim, gets psych help.  Boy is expelled and is currently in 'young offenders' sort of place while they sort out his punishment inc. sexual offenders list.  Bonkers (IMO).

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5 hours ago, Rowley said:

Virtually every song from the 60’s involved a man or group of men in their 20’s or 30’s singing about “innocent young girls”, get into my car, just turning 16, or theme there in 😂

And my, how the little girls understood!

Quote

Back Door Man

I am, a back door man
I am, a back door man
Well the, men don't know, but the little girls understand

When everybody's tryin' to sleep
I'm somewhere making my, midnight creep
Yes in the morning, when the rooster crow
Something tell me, I got to go

I am, a back door man
I am, a back door man
Well the, men don't know, but little girls understand

 

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7 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

It is the double standards of broadcasters that makes me outraged.

Absolutely.

Jonathan King is reviled by the media for his alleged penchant for 15 year old boys but the So-Called BBC was quite happy to run a celebration of the life of Joe Orton in 2017

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08zzly6

Incidentally this is what Orton wrote in his diaries about his trip to Tangier

Went to dinner with Nigel ... He said El Aioun was the place for boys. 'I like young boys' he said. 'How young?' I said. ... 'About fourteen.' 'Oh perfectly natural,' I said. 'I think I have finally settled for fifteen.... I lust for Mustapha and he can't be more than fourteen.... I shall have him in a cabin one day.

I guess Orton is seen as edgy and cool while King is just a sad old homo who sang naff songs about Everyone Going to the Moon.

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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7 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Jerry Lee Lewis married not one but two of his 13 year old cousins. Elvis Presley had a child bride.

Was listening to a documentary about Jerry Lee Lewis. Crazy as it sounds today, at that time and in that part of the US, marrying your 13 year old cousin was not considered especially controversial and he couldn't understand what all the fuss was about when he came to the UK. Probably the same for Elvis.

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