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One percent

The degradation of work and wages

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30 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Freelancing is an interesting one.

The high wages are good but I not sure if I'd want to have to constantly relocate. In all honesty I'm also not sure how I'd cope with months of free time in a row, perhaps I like the structure of having work to go to every week.

having said that if I lost my current low stress tech job I'd be positioning myself to enter the world of contracting rather slog away at a stressful IT job for permie wages and crap holidays.

I think the key is having sufficient financial buffer in place. 

I have been quite lucky most of my contracts are working from home. There is a world out there that needs good software engineers 

31 minutes ago, OurDayWillCome said:

Also too arrogant to learn from people who know what they are talking about.

That too though I was rather arrogant too when young. Though I was lucky I had good people to learn from and knew when to shut up and listen  

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3 minutes ago, Alonso Quijano said:

Adjusted average earnings £50,000 on @Frank Hovis graph, of course this clearly overstates earnings for most ordinary people. That gap has to be met somehow... high debt multiples, subsidies, liar loans. Add the women forced to work - there was a period when Tax Credits were allowed in mortgage calculations. It is a mess!

All that money sucked out of a productive economy. It's like Strawberry Fields - nothing is real!

imageproxy.jpeg.85c81b87dc3ebc4b7f0c39b7fc728f8b.jpeg

Earnings £27k, right hand sacle.

Every worker has become much poorer through immigration.

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29 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

We had an engineering student at work in his year 6 months in industry work placement, we asked him what he wanted to do.

His answer was 'enough' to get chartered as soon as he finished university.

In my world absolutely nobody should ever get chartership without at least 10 years actual industrial experience under their belt.

Had no real interest in actual engineering, just wanted loads of money from a management position.

Tozzer.

What engineering field. I think took me 3 years post grad to get chartered. Plus my year in industry. Took me 11 to get Fellow, but I have been very lucky and worked rather hard. 

I ask about field as in mine electronics not many bother to be honest. I only did it as my house mate at the time was doing it and would be insufferable if he was and I not. Turned out I got it he did not.

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10 minutes ago, One percent said:

Wages have not increased for the last 20 odd years have they. 

 

8 minutes ago, Alonso Quijano said:

Misread graph re earnings! Point still stands about the gap.

Wages have barely moved for twenty years; living costs have increased much more in that time and housing costs ludicrously so.

Every worker is now skint.

Good innit.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Wages have barely moved for twenty years; living costs have increased much more in that time and housing costs ludicrously so.

Every worker is now skint.

Good innit.

Fantastic. 

I wonder why all the shops had such a poor Christmas?  Seems like the establishment can’t do the math. 

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Wages have barely moved for twenty years; living costs have increased much more in that time and housing costs ludicrously so.

Every worker is now skint.

Good innit.

Amazing that Parties and some gullible voters continue to claim immigration (at the levels we have) is a good thing!

And yet the rich get richer. Obscenely so.

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9 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Wages have barely moved for twenty years; living costs have increased much more in that time and housing costs ludicrously so.

Every worker is now skint.

Good innit.

and if inflation picks up it's going to be even more difficult for a lot of people, invest in soup kitchens

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1 hour ago, TheBlueCat said:

Mix of globalisation, immigration and, at the low end of the payscale, tax credits.

Businesses always say 'If wages go up, then our prices have to go up too'

Fine, but wages are only one factor of production. If your wages go up 25%, your rent, fuel bills, plant etc...probably wont all go up 25% as well. Perhaps your overall costs will rise 5-10%. 

Its always better (for workers AND consumers) to have a very tight labour market. 

 

If a companies wage costs fall by 10%, its overall costs, and thus prices it charges to consumers will likely fall by less than 10%.

If a companies wage costs rise by 10%, its overall costs, and thuse prices it charges to consumers will likely rise by less than 10%.

 

its not that difficult, and yet no one seems to 'get it' 

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I only know bar work and marketing (exMrsLTS) now and when she was a Marketing Manager 10+ years ago the pay was £40-45k+bonus plus car, anyway a job advertised today for a midlands zoo on one of my 'likes' it advertised a salary of £30k with no car or car allowance and no mention of a bonus scheme. I thought they were taking the pee and looked up what the role pays on glass door now and it's the lower end of ball-park. If I were to train up on the kitchens I could choose to do the 60+ hours a week that the marketing person would be expected to do and earn ~similar (£28k) without the deadlines. 

My old city job from 20 years ago (£15-20p/hr) isn't paying any more either. 

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4 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

Businesses always say 'If wages go up, then our prices have to go up too'

Fine, but wages are only one factor of production. If your wages go up 25%, your rent, fuel bills, plant etc...probably wont all go up 25% as well. Perhaps your overall costs will rise 5-10%. 

Its always better (for workers AND consumers) to have a very tight labour market. 

 

If a companies wage costs fall by 10%, its overall costs, and thus prices it charges to consumers will likely fall by less than 10%.

If a companies wage costs rise by 10%, its overall costs, and thuse prices it charges to consumers will likely rise by less than 10%.

 

its not that difficult, and yet no one seems to 'get it' 

They choose not to get it. 

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Trumpys going on about massive reform of h1b.

For those nit in kniw, h1b is like a feudal deal used to get crap indian sw people working in us.

Its totally bent, allowing companies to fuck 9ver americans and the indians. Recruiyment cos fiddle the lottery and process.

All he needs to do is set the wage hurdle at 200k and open it up. Or auction them off.

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the lowest and top paid seem to be geting pay rises,the minimum wage will be going up from just under 8 quid to 9 quid by the end of the year thats well over 12% .its those on a couple of quid over minimum wage that will possably be starting to think fuck it whats the point and subconciesly start to become unproductive.has there jobs suddenly become little more than minimum wage jobs.

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3 hours ago, MrPin said:

You are the brother I never had. Yes I've tinkled in the nuclear industry too.

Went on a school trip to a nuclear power station once, where the clumsy kid first leaned on a panel of switches in the control room, then followed up by dropping his hard hat into the turbines.

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4 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

There's no brown-nosing going on here.

Just the truth that I simply have the best - and the sexiest - hair of any 53 year-old man on this planet.

Bar none...

 

XYY

It really is extraordinary what they can do with polyester these days isn’t it?

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8 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

There's no brown-nosing going on here.

Just the truth that I simply have the best - and the sexiest - hair of any 53 year-old man on this planet.

Bar none...

 

XYY

next you'll be saying your shed roof is watertight

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Was talking to a mate, remembering how local people thought he and his ex, both working in just above min wage jobs were over extending to buy a home ~£50k in '97. I think he probably owned more equity in his house in his twenties that he does in current equivalent house in his forties. Looked up his old house which last sold for 4 times that price a few years ago. Wouldn't be able to get his old job down the warehouses now because they only employ euro labour, but even if he could, the wages are up about £2 /hour from '97 to around £7or £8 / hour. Grafting for his best working years really hasn't paid off.

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2 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

Was talking to a mate, remembering how local people thought he and his ex, both working in just above min wage jobs were over extending to buy a home ~£50k in '97. I think he probably owned more equity in his house in his twenties that he does in current equivalent house in his forties. Looked up his old house which last sold for 4 times that price a few years ago. Wouldn't be able to get his old job down the warehouses now because they only employ euro labour, but even if he could, the wages are up about £2 /hour from '97 to around £7or £8 / hour. Grafting for his best working years really hasn't paid off.

Looked at a house yesterday. £550k. Last sold for £100k in 1997.

I was paying a machine minder £16k at the time. I would need to pay about £19k now.

Clearly mental.

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Tbh, a lot of jobs are paying shit money now. Even a newly qualified solicitor is only paid £25k to £40k in a regional firm. Don't get me wrong it's more money than most but by the time someone rents a flat/ car PCP and has a few holidays it doesn't  leave much left over.

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12 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I have noted that jobs that were advertised at £40 - £45k in the mid 90s are still advertised at £40 - £45k.

House prices and tehrefore housing costs have in that time leapt ahead.

My favourite graph.

UK-House-prices_July-17_960_4web.jpg

If that's your graph, could you overlay immigration figures, might make it easier for some to visualise cause and effect.

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Looking at it the other way most companies don't make huge profits for each employee they employ. Sainsbury's make about £600m a year and employ about 187,000 people. If that profit was distributed amongst the workforce they would get circa £3k each.

Yeah, it would be a nice boost to the workers but it would mean that Sainsbury's would likely go bust. It would also mean that a lot of pension funds would have to reduce pensions....

Imho, if the UK wants to get wealthier we have to stop industries that cost the taxpayer billions... That includes agriculture and hospitality. Giving £2 to farming so that they can grow a £1 punnet of strawberries is stupid.

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We've been living with 'fake' economics now for about thirty years, every fiscal trick is thrown at maintaining the illusion of growth.

Without immigration we'd be have had no growth over the last thirty years, they are simply importing growth.

Earning have been replaced with debt, both on a government and personal level.

 

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