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London - Grenfell House


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If you want your TV to stay in one piece please don't watch any coverage of the residents of this place heckling and shouting at this council meeting yesterday.  It looked like something out of I

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Reminds me of a time when me and family stayed at a relatives flat in Paris. It was on the 3rd floor. There was only a central wooden staircase, the flat had no fire escape. The flat was located above a gym with dozens and dozens of pieces of electrical equipment etc. The other flats contained quite a few, shall we say, vibrant types. Seeing that there was no fire escape and no evidence of any smoke alarms I enquired of our hosts where the smoke alarms were. They looked at me as if I had asked where I could park my spaceship. They really hadn't given the possibility of a fire any thought at all and said they would just run down the stairs or failing that go out the window (30-40 Ft drop). Jesus wept!

You would have thought that the very least they could do was to fit smoke alarms themselves and put a couple in the stairwell. I would have also fitted one of those rope ladder things too. Well actually I wouldn't because I would never have lived there.

I guess some people place less value on their lives, and their families lives.

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Brand of fridge? My money is on it being a Beko. 

If most are of Syrian origin then I'd suspect we are in for a summer of discontent from herein as from personal experience there is a cultural blame on the white western man from their quarters for everything from an act of God to an accident. Let's forget for a moment that the fridge was probably manufactured in Turkey.

Horrible way to go, RIP.

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6 minutes ago, the gardener said:

Reminds me of a time when me and family stayed at a relatives flat in Paris. It was on the 3rd floor. There was only a central wooden staircase, the flat had no fire escape. The flat was located above a gym with dozens and dozens of pieces of electrical equipment etc. The other flats contained quite a few, shall we say, vibrant types. Seeing that there was no fire escape and no evidence of any smoke alarms I enquired of our hosts where the smoke alarms were. They looked at me as if I had asked where I could park my spaceship. They really hadn't given the possibility of a fire any thought at all and said they would just run down the stairs or failing that go out the window (30-40 Ft drop). Jesus wept!

You would have thought that the very least they could do was to fit smoke alarms themselves and put a couple in the stairwell. I would have also fitted one of those rope ladder things too. Well actually I wouldn't because I would never have lived there.

I guess some people place less value on their lives, and their families lives.

We have man-up forklifts at work that go up 8m+. In the cab they have a manufacturer supplied pack of a full abseiling kit with the intention the operator can abseil down if the machine fails and they're stuck in the air. I always thought it seemed a very fanciful idea that some fat warehouse lad, with a basic sheet of instructions, was going to get themsleves into a harness, rig a figure of eight, and abseil down without incident. 

In reality you would use a cherry picker or get the fire brigade out but possibly it's intended for the worse case scenario of a lone operator in the building. Looking at the scenario of this fire that level of contingency planning doesn't look nearly as absurd.

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2 minutes ago, man o' the year said:

Been following this since hearing it on radio about 2am. Regretably a large number of fatalaties look inevitable.

Looks as though if you are above the 6th or 7th floor fire brigade can do nothing as even hoses unable to reach higher. Is there only one stairwell in there?

Most likely only one stairwell, lift(s) pretty much a no go in any fire - electric goes out and that's it yo are trapped int he lift.

High rise buildings are intrinsically unsafe in regards fire, especially residential,  if you need to resort to them you should be asking serious questions about the population density you are encouraging. 

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1 minute ago, SCC said:

Sad news and RIP to those who have tragically died in the fire. Awful way to go.  Hopefully, like some of the other historical disasters lessons will be learned and changes brought in to prevent a reoccurrence.

It looks in this case as if previous lessons have not been learned.

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Matt Wrack, general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, has said normal fire procedures were not possible to follow in the Grenfell Tower fire.

He explained that normally firefighters would work from the inside out but in this case they had not been able to do so. He said it was "shocking" that a fire in a tower block was able to take hold in this way.

I thought fire brigades would have done regular checks on these places and so should have been aware of these issues?

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12 minutes ago, the gardener said:

I wonder if it will collapse? It's stood up pretty well considering how long the twin towers lasted.

Mentioned on TV (may not be correct) that building was a concrete structure. I thought that about steel, fire and Twin Towers should it not collapse with all that damage - and how it would fall.

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3 minutes ago, SNACR said:

We have man-up forklifts at work that go up 8m+. In the cab they have a manufacturer supplied pack of a full abseiling kit with the intention the operator can abseil down if the machine fails and they're stuck in the air. I always thought it seemed a very fanciful idea that some fat warehouse lad, with a basic sheet of instructions, was going to get themsleves into a harness, rig a figure of eight, and abseil down without incident. 

In reality you would use a cherry picker or get the fire brigade out but possibly it's intended for the worse case scenario of a lone operator in the building. Looking at the scenario of this fire that level of contingency planning doesn't look nearly as absurd.

Spent a few lunchtimes of my first job in the forklift cage, at maximum reach, during stocktaking, as the storeman's idea of a hilariously unpredictable practical joke. I should have got my revenge by plummeting to the concrete - that would have teached them.

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Why has it spread so much too?

Concrete dos not burn.

Towerblock have lots of fire breaks.

is it the cladding?

7 minutes ago, SNACR said:

I do wonder how they would spin it if a jet ever accidentally flew into a tower block and after some enormous inferno it refused to collapse.

Yeah but ... Twin towers were hit by jumbos with wings full of aeroplane fuel.

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4 minutes ago, eight said:

It looks in this case as if previous lessons have not been learned.

I thought fire brigades would have done regular checks on these places and so should have been aware of these issues?

We are regualrly inspecpted at our hotel and as fire regualtion standards have risen have had to make improvements to our hotel. 

We have smoke detectors throughout, linked fire alarm, emergency lighting and a safe route, which in itself necessiatted £3k imrpovements to up rate fiare safety of doors.

It is scandalous that somewhere accommodating at least ten times more people should be sucha death trap with so little precautions taken. 

I should also note that our hotel has 2 feet thick stone walls.

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1 minute ago, man o' the year said:

We are regualrly inspecpted at our hotel and as fire regualtion standards have risen have had to make improvements to our hotel.

We have smoke detectors throughout, linked fire alarm, emergency lighting and a safe route, which in itself necessiatted £3k imrpovements to up rate fiare safety of doors.

It is scandalous that somewhere accommodating at least ten times more people should be sucha death trap with so little precautions taken.

I should also note that our hotel has 2 feet thick stone walls.

Assuming many (all?) of those flats were rented, where were the fire alarms, co2 alarms etc?
 

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2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Guy whose sister lives over the roads says it was full of Syrian asylum seekers. Plus the thing has had plastic cladding and UPVC glazing fitted to its exterior which has fuelled the spread of the fire hence the enormous amount of dense black smoke.

Also this cladding contributes greatly to the spread of the fire to the rest of the building.

Whatever happened to fire inspections? Don't the LFB do them any more? Are they all too concerned with their community engagement role to do fire inspections?

There will be a cover-up at the highest level. 

My parents had a thirteenth floor flat in a high rise. There was a fire in a flat on the fifteenth floor one night when I was staying there. Apart from the noise of firemen soldiers running up the stairs, (it was during the firemen's strike in 1978) we were unaffected. 

Edit it to say: unless it's deliberately left like that with immigrants in...

Edited by Bossybabe
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17 minutes ago, man o' the year said:

Been following this since hearing it on radio about 2am. Regretably a large number of fatalaties look inevitable.

Looks as though if you are above the 6th or 7th floor fire brigade can do nothing as even hoses unable to reach higher. Is there only one stairwell in there?

Think there is more than one staircase. Lady being interviewed said she couldn't go down main staircase but used emergency one.

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4 minutes ago, Dipsy said:

Think there is more than one staircase. Lady being interviewed said she couldn't go down main staircase but used emergency one.

This conflicting advice about stying in flat may be one cause for concern as it gave time for fire to affect both staircases if there are two. It is frightening being in such a fire. I have only been in one, in a school where I taught. I was amazed that when the corridor filled with smoke above about 3 feet you could not see your hand in front of your face but below that you could see the full length of the corridor and see the layer of smoke above.

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23 minutes ago, longtomsilver said:

Brand of fridge? My money is on it being a Beko. 

If most are of Syrian origin then I'd suspect we are in for a summer of discontent from herein as from personal experience there is a cultural blame on the white western man from their quarters for everything from an act of God to an accident. Let's forget for a moment that the fridge was probably manufactured in Turkey.

Horrible way to go, RIP.

I think there is much more to this than a fridge catching fire/blowing up

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2 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Flammable plastic cladding and flammable windows on a high-rise building that has no sprinkler system or means of fire prevention? In 2017. Words fail me. 

Insane is the only word.

1 hour ago, Chewing Grass said:

Still strange how it can get from the fridge to the cladding which must have a modicum of fire resistance. What was stored in the flat beside the fridge, I was always under the impression that flats are designed to contain a fire within an individual unit for X amount of time.

They are via the main flat door. It should be able to withstand smoke for so many hours. Assuming they've been fitted right and I assume don't have letter boxes. 

Caught the story on the So-Called BBC news special whilst eating breakfast ten minutes ago.
I've only just seen the night footage. Jesus wept.

 

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