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Kurt Barlow

Formal Complaints against HMRC

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I am reaching the end of the line with HMRC as their incompetence and inability to resolve administrative errors they have made is beyond comparison. 

I have two ongoing issues. 

The first relates to the additional 15 hours 'free' childcare parents can claim. We meet all the requirements except some fuckwit at HMRC has advised the Childcare provider element that I am paying tax on a remittance basis (ie to another government). I am not as I moved back to the UK in December 2016 and have almost two full tax years of of being a tax paying resident of the UK. In August they supposedly sorted this all out. We got the full 30 hours until a few weeks ago they suddenly decided again I am ineligible. This is despite the fact I have several letters to them advising clearly (mostly sent recorded delivery). 

This is the HMRC's fault rather than the Childcare bods because the CC people are simply reliant on what HMRC tell them. When I speak to HMRC the inbecile I get to speak to acknowledges that I am not on remittance yet is incapable of doing anything and no one from 'technical is available so nothing gets resolved. 

In the meantime we are set to lose 250 a month in childcare support. 

The second concerns a tax self assessment for 2017-18 that some fuckwit there recorded as 2015-16. Following that I got a demand for tax. During this period I was resident in Oz so have written back including appendices of their own letters stating I was not liable to do a TR for 2015-16. I have discussed on the phone. Despite this I keep getting menacing tax demands and the threat of fines. I have said both in writing and on the phone it appears someone has misfiled my 2017-18 return for 2015-16. Can you please correct and reissue under the appropriate year taking account of the allowances for that year. Nothing resolved - even the talking head on the phone acknowledges something is wrong but cant do anything a 'technical' is never available. 

 

Question

Apart from emigrating what else can I do. I have already formally complained. What next - MP, Ombudsman? 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

I am reaching the end of the line with HMRC as their incompetence and inability to resolve administrative errors they have made is beyond comparison. 

I have two ongoing issues. 

The first relates to the additional 15 hours 'free' childcare parents can claim. We meet all the requirements except some fuckwit at HMRC has advised the Childcare provider element that I am paying tax on a remittance basis (ie to another government). I am not as I moved back to the UK in December 2016 and have almost two full tax years of of being a tax paying resident of the UK. In August they supposedly sorted this all out. We got the full 30 hours until a few weeks ago they suddenly decided again I am ineligible. This is despite the fact I have several letters to them advising clearly (mostly sent recorded delivery). 

This is the HMRC's fault rather than the Childcare bods because the CC people are simply reliant on what HMRC tell them. When I speak to HMRC the inbecile I get to speak to acknowledges that I am not on remittance yet is incapable of doing anything and no one from 'technical is available so nothing gets resolved. 

In the meantime we are set to lose 250 a month in childcare support. 

The second concerns a tax self assessment for 2017-18 that some fuckwit there recorded as 2015-16. Following that I got a demand for tax. During this period I was resident in Oz so have written back including appendices of their own letters stating I was not liable to do a TR for 2015-16. I have discussed on the phone. Despite this I keep getting menacing tax demands and the threat of fines. I have said both in writing and on the phone it appears someone has misfiled my 2017-18 return for 2015-16. Can you please correct and reissue under the appropriate year taking account of the allowances for that year. Nothing resolved - even the talking head on the phone acknowledges something is wrong but cant do anything a 'technical' is never available. 

 

Question

Apart from emigrating what else can I do. I have already formally complained. What next - MP, Ombudsman? 

The Adjudicators Office deals with HMRC maladministration but you have to go through the formal complaints process first.

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-hmrc

Your MP can also raise the matter with the Parliamentary Obudsman if you dont agree with the Adjudicators decision but it might be an idea to write to him anyway as he can feed your complaint back into the HMRC through the top of the bureaucracy while your formal complaint will wind its way from the bottom up. When I worked for the old Inland Revenue in the 1980s MP complaint cases usually got priority

The problem with HMRC is that they have basically shut most of their local offices and the staff that understood the tax system have either been made redundant or taken retirement. As a consequence the organisation is full of half trained fuckwits working in a few centralised locations who basically rely on the computer systems to do the job for them. This is just about feasible with simple PAYE cases but anything complicated like change of country of  domicile or double taxation is almost bound to cause the system to breakdown. It has been further complicated because the domicile rules changed in 2017. As you did not return to the UK until December 2016 then I dont understand how they have managed to assess you for 2015-16 as you were resident abroad for the whole of that tax year which ended 5th April 2016. 

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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This level of unchallengeable incompetence was going to be the obvious impact of closing all the local centres; I half thought of a career at the now-closed tax office in St Austell when I was at school.

Just on the radio was this one.  Bloke from Par recent a letter from HMRC in December telling him he was dead and his pension stopped; it took him three months to get HMRC to accept that he was still living.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-47527835

Good luck with it Kurt.

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SNAFU :Old:

My default position when I have to rely on anyone in this country is that it will be fucked up.  I am rarely let down, if you know what I mean! 

I think becoming a drug dealer (or any other cash based business) is the best alternative to avoid all this shite. 

 

I wish you luck.  Keep calling, eventually you will get someone with a brain who will help you.  When this happens, get their name and be nice to them and always use them from now on! 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

The Adjudicators Office deals with HMRC maladministration but you have to go through the formal complaints process first.

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-hmrc

Your MP can also raise the matter with the Parliamentary Obudsman if you dont agree with the Adjudicators decision but it might be an idea to write to him anyway as he can feed your complaint back into the HMRC through the top of the bureaucracy while your formal complaint will wind its way from the bottom up. When I worked for the old Inland Revenue in the 1980s MP complaint cases usually got priority

The problem with HMRC is that they have basically shut most of their local offices and the staff that understood the tax system have either been made redundant or taken retirement. As a consequence the organisation is full of half trained fuckwits working in a few centralised locations who basically rely on the computer systems to do the job for them. This is just about feasible with simple PAYE cases but anything complicated like change of country of  domicile or double taxation is almost bound to cause the system to breakdown. It has been further complicated because the domicile rules changed in 2017. As you did not return to the UK until December 2016 then I dont understand how they have managed to assess you for 2015-16 as you were resident abroad for the whole of that tax year which ended 5th April 2016. 

 

Aa virgil said, you have to fully exhaust the HMRC complaints process before taking it any further. I'm not familiar with the HMRC complaints process but the first step is to ask them to provide you with a copy. There will probably be a number stages to go through but each should have a time limit attached. Make sure you have a very clear paper trail for each stage, if its not resolved you will need it for later.

They manage ok with the 95% of stuff that is vanilla tax. The minute they get something out of the ordinary they struggle, as others have said most the people with in depth knowledge have gone. The other issue is that most of the staff are not given any authority outside of their defined process, so even if they can see what the problem is they are often not allowed to fix it.

One year they chased me to pay my tax bill despite it having been paid 3 months earlier. After a few attempts someone managed to get to the bottom of it and it was due to some 'IT data processing issues'. Rather annoying to be getting chased with threatening letters for tax that was paid in full and on time.

On another occasion I was blatently given wrong advice over the phone. This was despite quoting the HMRC guidance to them. So I put it in writing to them and to their credit they got back to me within a week, a nice lady who knew what she was doing gave me a call. She said she had listened to the call recording and apologised for the incorrect advice and a letter arrived a few days later confirming the position.

 

EDIT - and good luck by the way!

Edited by null;

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Posted (edited)

Hate to say it but sometimes a good local accountant may have better access to HRMC.  Also maybe try speaking to Citizens Advice.  But starting the formal complaints process asap may be a good start.  Will any outstanding sums earn you interest?

Edited by Harley

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Posted (edited)

MP is worth a try, I had problems with identity theft where someone used my NI number to claim benefits. After a few months of HMRC refusing to talk to me as I was under investigation, I wrote to my MP who resolved it and I got an apology from a senior HMRC bod in just a couple of weeks.

Edited by snaga

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5 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I half thought of a career at the now-closed tax office in St Austell when I was at school.

That reminds me of being at school, watching the Formula 1 on the telly and dreaming of one day being that bloke who takes the tyre temperatures.

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1 hour ago, eight said:

That reminds me of being at school, watching the Formula 1 on the telly and dreaming of one day being that bloke who takes the tyre temperatures.

It was one of the very few office jobs in Cornwall where you could be other than a routine bookkeeper.  That option is now gone.

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I have two jobs. For some unknown reason HMRC decided to give me a tax allowance at both places. Don’t know why as at one I had always paid tax on the full amount 

anyhow it took me ages to spot it as the stupid employer has decided to go paperless and the login is outside of the internal system. So getting to the payslips is a nightmare. 

Eventually did and payroll were helpful. Contacted HMRC and they treated me like a tax evader. Their attitude was that it was my fault 

then a couple of years later my employer merged with another. HMRC then decided that I had doubled my salary by being paid by both the new organisation and the defunct one. So, they taxed me accordingly. 

Incompetence doesn’t begin to describe them 

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7 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

This level of unchallengeable incompetence was going to be the obvious impact of closing all the local centres; I half thought of a career at the now-closed tax office in St Austell when I was at school.

Just on the radio was this one.  Bloke from Par recent a letter from HMRC in December telling him he was dead and his pension stopped; it took him three months to get HMRC to accept that he was still living.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-47527835

Good luck with it Kurt.

Have they closed them all ? 

They were very good but i must admit they were woefully over staffed for most of the year

I will never forget the last time i used mine ,there were two security on the door then you went to the front desk where there were two receptionists one  booked me in the other then guided me to the  "office" where there was another receptionist which i assume recorded my arrival and put me in the que to see an adviser,there was about ten of them ,i was the only customer in the place for the 45 minutes i was there 

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40 minutes ago, One percent said:

I have two jobs. For some unknown reason HMRC decided to give me a tax allowance at both places. Don’t know why as at one I had always paid tax on the full amount 

anyhow it took me ages to spot it as the stupid employer has decided to go paperless and the login is outside of the internal system. So getting to the payslips is a nightmare. 

Eventually did and payroll were helpful. Contacted HMRC and they treated me like a tax evader. Their attitude was that it was my fault 

then a couple of years later my employer merged with another. HMRC then decided that I had doubled my salary by being paid by both the new organisation and the defunct one. So, they taxed me accordingly. 

Incompetence doesn’t begin to describe them 

My sister had exactly the same ,she even had a court date ,eventually they raised her tax code ,but it took years to pay it back IIRC it was about £6k 

Basically she had paid next to no tax in three years ,two relatively good part time/low hour jobs in the 90`s ,when you had paper wages slips weekly xD

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Have they closed them all ? 

They were very good but i must admit they were woefully over staffed for most of the year

I will never forget the last time i used mine ,there were two security on the door then you went to the front desk where there were two receptionists one  booked me in the other then guided me to the  "office" where there was another receptionist which i assume recorded my arrival and put me in the que to see an adviser,there was about ten of them ,i was the only customer in the place for the 45 minutes i was there 

25 years ago I used to organise a works Xmas party where we got a whole nightclub for a night for free ( might have helped that I did the Public Entertainment Licence ;)). It was took big for us alone so I  used to invite the local inland revenue office because it was ram packed with cracking burds:D

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Cheers All

Sent off the next round of recorded deliver letter today to both HMRC and the Childcare Service. 

I have experience of the LG Ombudsman so anticipate the procedure is similar. 

 

 

Edited by Kurt Barlow

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I don't know why given my financial state, but I have to do a tax return every year.  I actually quite like it as an exercise but also as a way to settle everything up.  Any repayments or payments get done asap. 

Maybe people can just decide to submit one where that would help?

Indeed, starting next month!

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The UK civil service is designed to work in writing - never phone, never email, always send a formal letter by post.  I’ve sent a few letters to HMRC over the years and my issues have been sorted quickly, often resulting in payments my way.

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HMRC / Childcare service incompetence continues unabated

I have now received a fine of 150 for late submission of a self assessment return that I submitted in October 2018 and was told it was received on the 27th october. I forgot to sign it so I put an appeal on the basis of care responsibilities for my Dad who subsequently committed suicide in December. I put a copy of his certified death cert in as evidence

The Childcare service (which is part of HMRC)  claim there is no evidence of my wifes employment or national insurance number even though she has received letters from HMRC with her NI number on it. 

Another recorded delivery letter on its way today. Post Office profits will be up this year. 

 

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1 hour ago, Kurt Barlow said:

HMRC / Childcare service incompetence continues unabated

I have now received a fine of 150 for late submission of a self assessment return that I submitted in October 2018 and was told it was received on the 27th october. I forgot to sign it so I put an appeal on the basis of care responsibilities for my Dad who subsequently committed suicide in December. I put a copy of his certified death cert in as evidence

The Childcare service (which is part of HMRC)  claim there is no evidence of my wifes employment or national insurance number even though she has received letters from HMRC with her NI number on it. 

Another recorded delivery letter on its way today. Post Office profits will be up this year. 

 

un-fucking-believable

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Posted (edited)

File on-line next time?  Only be sure to get the logon credentials early enough as they take some time.  You get an immediate confirmation.

Was the appeal rejected?  Very surprised if it was.  MP?

Check the NI number by looking up (online or call) her pension forecast?  Complaint?  MP?

Edited by Harley

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1 hour ago, Harley said:

File on-line next time?  Only be sure to get the logon credentials early enough as they take some time.  You get an immediate confirmation.

 


And if you forget the password it's really amusing.

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On 20/03/2019 at 15:36, Harley said:

File on-line next time?  Only be sure to get the logon credentials early enough as they take some time.  You get an immediate confirmation.

Was the appeal rejected?  Very surprised if it was.  MP?

Check the NI number by looking up (online or call) her pension forecast?  Complaint?  MP?

I spent 6 months trying to sort out online - phone calls, letters, emails. Finally a couple of months ago someone at HMRC tells me I'm locked out of the system as I was registered in 2010 (just before I went to Saudi). That has supposedly sorted out but after the deadline for submitting by which time I had put in a manual 

Sent the appeal off yesterday recorded delivery - included my Dads death certificate from the Coroner. The tactic here is I give them something that they can then say - it was your fault but in the circumstances we will waiver the fine. 

Today the cunts from the Childcare service sent me an automatic txt saying please reconfirm your childcare account details. So I log on and go into the secure messages and there is a message saying - your child care will end because you are paying tax on a remittance basis (primal scream time) 

After I;

Sent them a recorded Delivery letter copied to HMRC stating I am not paying tax on a remittance basis

Having received a phone call from some cunt this week  who said the remittance error had been resolved however they cant trace my wifes NI number even though she has a couple of letters from them quoting the number ( I double checked I had put the correct NI number in - I had) 

 

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Today I received a 1500 pound fine for non submission of my 2015-16 tax return. 

I have written to them 5 times (twice recorded delivery) to advise I was resident in oz from 2010  until Dec 2016. 

I have a letter from them in 2017 that there was no need to submit any returns for 2015-16 and several other tax years. 

Over the phone the talking heads admit there is a problem but cant do anything and 'Technical are never available. 

This is now really grinding me down. I'm in some sort of Kafka like World. I think Im going to have to get an accountant? 

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15 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

Today I received a 1500 pound fine for non submission of my 2015-16 tax return. 

I have written to them 5 times (twice recorded delivery) to advise I was resident in oz from 2010  until Dec 2016. 

I have a letter from them in 2017 that there was no need to submit any returns for 2015-16 and several other tax years. 

Over the phone the talking heads admit there is a problem but cant do anything and 'Technical are never available. 

This is now really grinding me down. I'm in some sort of Kafka like World. I think Im going to have to get an accountant? 

You know what they say, just because you are paranoid, doesn’t mean that they are not out to get you. xD

more seriously, do them for harassment. Fuckers. 

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Posted (edited)

Appalling treatment towards a high tax payer and a very decent citizen of the uk. Doesn’t surprise me though having had a long ordeal a few years ago with the local council regarding council tax payments. The pile of council letters and demands was approx three inches thick. They said I owed them £3k. I reckoned I didn’t because I had always given them accurate information and had always paid what they asked even when I didn’t have a clue how it was worked out. The trouble came when my son turned aged 18 and I then became liable for full council tax and my single person 25% discount was removed. Because he had no job initially then went on a modern apprenticeship at £75 per week I applied for a discount and was awarded one. Over the next few years, until he got a properly paid job, I continually updated them what he was doing and I received over twenty different demands.

When I told them about his decent job and earnings that’s when they said I owed them £3k because my pension “had been deleted”. Not by me because I had numerous council letters where they referred to my monthly pension payment. I probably did owe it but it was their error so I disputed it and they had to write it off. They decided there was no way I could have known what my payment should have been! Quite, because they didn’t seem to know themselves! Fuck them, I don’t feel guilty for being let off because I would have paid the correct amount monthly if they’d got it right!

After that it took me months of letters asking for a demand for the full council tax liability for my home because my son was now earning a decent wage. They kept sending me demand letters for different amounts and advising me to claim council tax discount. I knew I wasn’t eligible for single persons discount or any discount due to son’s earnings so I put the money aside for full council tax and settled the bill when the system got it right. Horrendous experience!

Computers and automation of services was supposed to make everything more efficient!

Edited by Van Lady

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5 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

Appalling treatment towards a high tax payer and a very decent citizen of the uk. Doesn’t surprise me though having had a long ordeal a few years ago with the local council regarding council tax payments. The pile of council letters and demands was approx three inches thick. They said I owed them £3k. I reckoned I didn’t because I had always given them accurate information and had always paid what they asked even when I didn’t have a clue how it was worked out. The trouble came when my son turned aged 18 and I then became liable for full council tax and my single person 25% discount was removed. Because he had no job initially then went on a modern apprenticeship at £75 per week I applied for a discount and was awarded one. Over the next few years, until he got a properly paid job, I continually updated them what he was doing and I received over twenty different demands.

When I told them about his decent job and earnings that’s when they said I owed them £3k because my pension “had been deleted”. Not by me because I had numerous council letters where they referred to my monthly pension payment. I probably did owe it but it was their error so I disputed it and they had to write it off. They decided there was no way I could have known what my payment should have been! Quite, because they didn’t seem to know themselves! Fuck them, I don’t feel guilty for being let off because I would have paid the correct amount monthly if they’d got it right!

After that it took me months of letters asking for a demand for the full council tax liability for my home because my son was now earning a decent wage. They kept sending me demand letters for different amounts and advising me to claim council tax discount. I knew I wasn’t eligible for single persons discount or any discount due to son’s earnings so I put the money aside for full council tax and settled the bill when the system got it right. Horrendous experience!

Computers and automation of services was supposed to make everything more efficient!

Meanwhile, the feckless pay nowt. 

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