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How does Buy to Let END!


macca
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What happens when generation rent retire with tiny pensions and massive rent bills!  

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“What happens to generation rent!”

When they retire with tiny pensions and can no longer afford to pay their MASSIVE rent, never mind their food, gas, electric, water, council tax! 

The landlord will have had their houses paid for, but through the labour of their tenant..

Who pays/or doesn’t pay for the tenant to live thrive and survive? 

What if they need a nursing home? How do we fund that? They don’t have a house to sell? 

Can the tax payer afford to fund 100’000s/millions of poor tenants?  

Edited by macca
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Well I think if things carry on the way they are with prices ramping every year and zero interest rates, they will be sold on death and end up in the hands of pension companies. They will offer good very long term contracts hoping for low risk constant income but it will be difficult to get a rent unless you have an impeccable record and a rent guarantor.

Most of us will end up on benefits in some form of pre care home. Unless land values crash and we all go for the new cheap prefabs. Then buy to let will just wither and die.

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Not an issue, we are not going to have old age...?!...people's unhealthy eating (due to satfats/sugars/additives) will reduce life expectancy...people's increasing sedentary lifestyles will reduce life expectancy...peoples increase in deteriorating mental health  due to lowering `real` rather than virtual social interactions/support will reduce life expectancy....people's increasing stress levels will reduce life expectancy....and finally the increased use (and support) of the Pharmaceutical industry as an `affordable` surrogate for healthcare as akin to `expensive` treatment (for the poorer in society) will reduce life expectancy...

...but don't worry, this indirect euthanasia is what the leaders want, a reduction in number of people dependent on the system without having to take responsibility for the losses!

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It will end when enough landlords have gone bust for a lot of people to know someone who lost on 'bricks & mortar'.  It will take a while yet though I reckon. 

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18 minutes ago, TheNickos said:

It’ll become institutionalised by pension funds as an income stream imo. They’ll eventually build too or at least fund it.

Corporate landlords, yes. 

But the little guy on the street landlord will be gone 

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25 minutes ago, TheNickos said:

It’ll become institutionalised by pension funds as an income stream imo. They’ll eventually build too or at least fund it.

That’s very much underway now - see Legal and General’s modular housing factory in Leeds.

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24 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

That’s very much underway now - see Legal and General’s modular housing factory in Leeds.

At least as the builder/owner they have some incentive to keep quality standards up.  There is not much point Building to rent 1000's of homes if you have to rebuild them all in 20 years.

Edited by Majorpain
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1 hour ago, TheNickos said:

It’ll become institutionalised by pension funds as an income stream imo. They’ll eventually build too or at least fund it.

No, not for houses.

Yes, for blocks like the Barbican.

What they'll do is built central, well doen fats for working people. Tower blocks and city centre flats are wasted on the poor and jobless.

Ive not problem with this - the corp funds will design and build these place. They wont take existing stock.

Any idiot IO BTler with several houses in some shithole Northern town is going to be surprised by the lack of corp interest in his 'portfolio'

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You need to think out of the box and the solution is aready here in one form the opt out will be removed from the new pensions and the contributions will carry on increasing and expect more people sharing houses or lodging and a future labour government can rob it at will April will shock a lot of people it’s going up again by a couple of percent

Edited by stokiescum
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On 25/03/2019 at 12:54, spygirl 🏆 said:

No, not for houses.

Yes, for blocks like the Barbican.

What they'll do is built central, well doen fats for working people. Tower blocks and city centre flats are wasted on the poor and jobless.

Ive not problem with this - the corp funds will design and build these place. They wont take existing stock.

Any idiot IO BTler with several houses in some shithole Northern town is going to be surprised by the lack of corp interest in his 'portfolio'

I think you might be waiting a long time for the death of the landlord but I’m thinking of those that own a secand home outright around here you can get a terrace for 50/60 k which will bring in say 4-450 it’s a nice top up for a lack of a decent pension

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1 hour ago, stokiescum said:

I think you might be waiting a long time for the death of the landlord but I’m thinking of those that own a secand home outright around here you can get a terrace for 50/60 k which will bring in say 4-450 it’s a nice top up for a lack of a decent pension

The LL that existed before IO BTL will still remain.

Put it context - the size of the UK PRS has quadrupled since 2004ish. 90% of these are leverage i.e. IO BTL mortgages.

These people will be lucky to espae solvent.

The slum lords will still exists. However, you really do have to be very very selective o ntenants and be present, daily, around your proprty.

Only way you can you can DSS private rental work in cheap places is to live very very close i..e so ou can visit/walk around alsmot daily. And youve got to be to afford to say No to ptential tenants.

I know of so many idiot Soothern LLS whove bought places way way and put Sharon 10 kids in, who the LHA were only to happy to get shot.

First rent - paid.

Second - nnpoe.

~10 months to get out, no money to go after.

 

Stepping back - all IO lending ends soon. The new basel rules make IO mortgage very very expensive for a bank.

You can see the change ow - S24 is gettign rid of IO BTL idiots.

RIO 'mortgages' are mopping up the over 65 IO mortgage loons.

Under 55? IO mortgage? You are fucked. And rightly so.

The main takers for IO debt has been IO BTL and people in London/.SE.

 

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Bricks & Mortar
On 25/03/2019 at 12:17, Majorpain said:

There is not much point Building to rent 1000's of homes if you have to rebuild them all in 20 years. 

Round about 20 years you might need a new kitchen.  new bathroom.  new heating, windows and doors.  Electrical system might need to accomodate solar panels, windmills or electric cars.  Gas might not be kosher anymore.
Imagine if you could just cart the tenants furniture out to the lawn, crane away the old place and put a new one down on the same underbuilding.  Take the old one back to factory for recycling.
We're not there yet, but that would be something to aim for, that we might get from modular building methods.  I think its got considerable advantages over trying to do maintenance round tenants, either in voids, or trying to work round them

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47723672

Almost half of the babies born in the UK are starting their lives in rented accommodation, according to a housing report from an insurance firm.

Number of  issues here.

One, TC have dragged most families with kids onto benefits, which is way they cannot get a mortgage.

Two, a lot of migrants make up the people having kids, TCs again.

Three, if ther are so many families in rental rather than young people then the leve lof regulation coming i nthe future is going to be huge.

 

What an absolutely fuckup Brown has given the UK.

 

 

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I was googling around unfo in this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47740529

These are all MX cBTL customers. They are grasping at straws trying to make a case out of robot signing - its does nto matter who the fuck signs the doucment, the mortgage is owed to the bank not the employee.

The MP - Holinrake - is a cunt ex Yawk EA, probably stacked with BTLs

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/170306/hollinrake_kevin.htm

Land and property portfolio: (i) value over £100,000 and/or (ii) giving rental income of over £10,000 a year

A third share in 12 residential properties in York: (i) and (ii). (Registered 05 June 2015)

Anyhow stumpled on this from guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/dec/10/buy-to-let-landlords-vilified-lending-crackdown-tax-hike-profit-loss

But critics warn the clampdown may force up rents – and argue that they are not all fat cats. Cooper, 55 and from Windsor, is a landlord with 15 properties across the country, from Crawley in the south to Grimsby in the north. On paper he appears to be a millionaire, with the properties worth a total of £2.4m. But Cooper works as cabin crew on an airline earning £34,000 a year, and says he began doing buy to let to supplement his otherwise meagre pension.

His total rental income is £104,000 a year, but mortgage interest and charges are £88,000, leaving him with an annual profit of £16,000. Added to his pay it brings his annual income to £50,000. Currently he pays £12,320 tax and national insurance on that, but once the tax changes are fully phased in by 2020 his bill will rise to £22,720. Figures prepared by his accountant suggest the tax on his rental income will rise from £4,600 (or 29% of his profits) to £14,900, or 93% of his profits. If interest rates rise he says he will have to pay tax in excess of his profits.

Those numbers are fuckign insane. The idiot and the banks who lent him that money need to be stripped of all assets and put in jail.

Earning 34k in Crawley means the fucker could barely afford to rent a fucking flat never mind 'own' a 2.4m property empire.

Rental income for individual should never have been allowed to be discounted from rent - this wa an oversight as noone ever though banks would be stupid enough to lend how they did.

What sort of leverage does he have? IO Mortgage @ say 4%/y of ~90k means hes carrying around 2m of io debt on a salary of 34k in the frocking South. Apply MMR lending ,hed only been able to get a resi mortgage under 150k.

 

 

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Talking Monkey
On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 09:52, spygirl 🏆 said:

The LL that existed before IO BTL will still remain.

Put it context - the size of the UK PRS has quadrupled since 2004ish. 90% of these are leverage i.e. IO BTL mortgages.

These people will be lucky to espae solvent.

The slum lords will still exists. However, you really do have to be very very selective o ntenants and be present, daily, around your proprty.

Only way you can you can DSS private rental work in cheap places is to live very very close i..e so ou can visit/walk around alsmot daily. And youve got to be to afford to say No to ptential tenants.

I know of so many idiot Soothern LLS whove bought places way way and put Sharon 10 kids in, who the LHA were only to happy to get shot.

First rent - paid.

Second - nnpoe.

~10 months to get out, no money to go after.

 

Stepping back - all IO lending ends soon. The new basel rules make IO mortgage very very expensive for a bank.

You can see the change ow - S24 is gettign rid of IO BTL idiots.

RIO 'mortgages' are mopping up the over 65 IO mortgage loons.

Under 55? IO mortgage? You are fucked. And rightly so.

The main takers for IO debt has been IO BTL and people in London/.SE.

 

Any idea when it will end the IO lending, bloody good thing in my opinion

Guessing a lot of the people who have these will struggle to remortgage

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UnconventionalWisdom
19 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Any idea when it will end the IO lending, bloody good thing in my opinion

Guessing a lot of the people who have these will struggle to remortgage

That's something I didn't consider. If they ban IO mortgages, those with them could be forced onto SVR. Another incentive to sell! 

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I haven't read all the responses but is the answer not simply lots of old people living in HMO's, using their pensions to pay for the rent on a single room?

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UnconventionalWisdom
On 29/03/2019 at 08:33, spygirl 🏆 said:

What sort of leverage does he have? IO Mortgage @ say 4%/y of ~90k means hes carrying around 2m of io debt on a salary of 34k in the frocking South. Apply MMR lending ,hed only been able to get a resi mortgage under 150k

I haven't heard a politician state how they will solve the housing crisis. Just ban IO BTL and mention this fucker. State that he was loaned more than 10 times what he could have as a resi mortgage and bang, you have at least done something to help. 

Just now, JoeDavola said:

I haven't read all the responses but is the answer not simply lots of old people living in HMO's, using their pensions to pay for the rent on a single room?

This could be their plan... Student living for life 😡

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16 minutes ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

This could be their plan... Student living for life 😡

Must be. If you're a single person.

If you're in a couple then maybe you can pool your resources and rent a small flat together. But you'll probably still have to work till you die or get so sick that you get benefits in order to achieve that.

But I know many folk hitting 30 who never carved out a career and are in pretty much minimum wage jobs, and they're all either living with the parents or in a house share. Given that they don't have any plan over the next few years to qualify for and get a much higher paying job, it's unlikely their financial situation will change. The only thing that will save them is that when their folks die they'll inherit the house.

For those whose parents don't own a house (which to be fair isn't many), they're fucked. Absolutely fucked.

Edited by JoeDavola
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UnconventionalWisdom
18 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

But I know many folk hitting 30 who never carved out a career and are in pretty much minimum wage jobs, and they're all either living with the parents or in a house share.

I'm in the south east and hang out with mates in London a lot. I'm lucky enough to rent a flat by myself in Kent (refuse to take on mass debt for a shoebox), but I know a lot of people in their 30s who are well-trained, good education and good jobs who share in London. It's bloody bonkers. 

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Talking Monkey
30 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Must be. If you're a single person.

If you're in a couple then maybe you can pool your resources and rent a small flat together. But you'll probably still have to work till you die or get so sick that you get benefits in order to achieve that.

But I know many folk hitting 30 who never carved out a career and are in pretty much minimum wage jobs, and they're all either living with the parents or in a house share. Given that they don't have any plan over the next few years to qualify for and get a much higher paying job, it's unlikely their financial situation will change. The only thing that will save them is that when their folks die they'll inherit the house.

For those whose parents don't own a house (which to be fair isn't many), they're fucked. Absolutely fucked.

Waiting to inherit could be a long time, a lot of these guys could be into their late 40s if not their 50s before they see an inheritance

How do these 30 year olds with a lack of a future get through each day,

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26 minutes ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

I'm in the south east and hang out with mates in London a lot. I'm lucky enough to rent a flat by myself in Kent (refuse to take on mass debt for a shoebox), but I know a lot of people in their 30s who are well-trained, good education and good jobs who share in London. It's bloody bonkers. 

Yeah it's often the case in Belfast too - I know very few people who've had the freedom of living alone for an extended period (usually with parents/flatmates/partner), simply because most people can't afford it.

4 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Waiting to inherit could be a long time, a lot of these guys could be into their late 40s if not their 50s before they see an inheritance

How do these 30 year olds with a lack of a future get through each day,

Many of them seem perfectly happy. They've just given up striving for anything particularly house ownership cause they think well what's the point. They're kinda permanently stuck in the 'student' stage of their lives. Some of them seem to be having more fun than the fools working their arse off for 30K in a 'good' job and then desperately trying to afford an overpriced house with that wage.

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